Lold

Less tank tapping please.

Yes, more posts are needed to start ironing out the details.

Uhh, the person you seem to be responding to (2shae) that last posted some terms is a likely candidate for actually putting up money against DN, as are many others of us in thread if we get the chance. Stop fanboying, this isn't the stars rail or an ESPN WSOP viewing crowd bud.

Foolish stipulations? How exactly would you like to make a bet without stipulations? Should they just bet me a million then take my word for it that I'm winning? Are they willing to bet if I said, I will play exactly 100 hands? I'd bet a million as I said, but of course it matters what the stipulations are. If they said, "You have to ONLY play the top regs exclusively over 100k hands in a 30 day span" well I wouldn't accept that bet. What I am saying, is that there are terms I will accept and that's still very true.

Daniel,

The nature of your original statement strongly implied you wouldn't win simply by extreme game selection. If that was your intention, then that's extremely lame, because it would say next to nothing about your actual technical abilities. And if people thought you meant that, there would have been no backlash. So take a look at my terms above with that in mind

PM me if you'd like to have a more lengthy discussion on it privately.

(This is TwoSHAE357 on Stars fwiw, I imagine you remember playing a bunch online and meeting in person)

OK, so I'll reply to the ones I won't accept:
2. If I make this bet, winning anything is winning- no minimum.

3. This one is extremely vague and unfair. If I tweet that I'm playing, or create interest amongst fish and they decide to play, I don't get to play with them? None of the regs play exclusively against each other, they only play when a fish is present, but this stipulation would require me to use seat scripting. Part of being a winning poker player is the ability to get in good games. There are plenty of mediocre pros who make MILLIONS in private games because they found a way to get an invite. In your example, say I call Guy up to start a game, we start, and the other 4 seats are filled with regs, that wouldn't be allowed with this stipulation and that renders the poker skill/ability of getting in good games useless.

5. I "may" be able to swing this one, but as of now I don't have my 2015 travel schedule finalized which is my main concern on the time frame issue.

7. This one can't be a rule. Again it's so vague and open to interpretation and it needs to be more clearly defined. If I told the players in the game that every time you make a flush or better, you have to do a shot of tequila, would that be illegal based on this rule? That's a silly example, but we can't have judges voting without clearly defined rules of what is or what isn't acceptable.

Haha. This.

Also, it doesn't seem to me that you understand how difficult it will be for you to get in the game with a fish. This is because the lobby is king of the hill, and you will never be able to hold it down because the current 5k regs will want to play 3-6 handed with you. In other words, you will not be able to be one of the two kings of the hill (since one person can sit out waiting for 3handed). Therefore, for you to get in with a fish, you'd have to join at approximately the same time, or, the games would have to run < 6 handed with you playing, which is extremely unlikely. This isn't saying you'd always be playing with 1-5 in the world, but you would play a pretty tough group of opponents.

Again, feel free to PM.

If I am Daniel I would have and already am studying and getting coaching on the side, assuming id get the action and plan on taking it in the future. So can we really trust he only has 2 weeks of studying the games under his belt?

haven't seen kanu online the last 2 days, maybe he's in the US coaching daniel

Who cares if he's been studying with WGC for 2 years straight? His tiny Romanian brain is incapable of absorbing or applying the information/theories/techniques necessary to beat 25/50 online in real time. Just listen to him talk poker for 5 minutes and it will be obvious to you. He will get demolished and I will roll on T F L.

I realize cash games and tournaments are very different beasts, but DN is the all time tournament money leader, twice WSOP POY, multiple bracelet winner, etc. What does someone have to do in the poker world before their skills are respected? What is our purpose as poker fans if the game's highest honors mean nothing to the poker community?

Certainly he's shown an exceptional ability to learn, adapt, and win in the past. While he may or may not ultimately fail I am inclined to think that people who have made themselves winners in the past will continue to find a way to do so if they approach it with belief and purpose.

In DN's case I believe he will put an incredible amount of effort into this, win or lose, and be a much better player for it when it's all said and done. Obviously he knows this, and obviously he isn't certain that he'll be able to pull out a win no matter what he says here. I think that learning and losing is still probably a productive venture for him.

But you have to approach goals like this will an unwavering belief, or failure is inevitable.

I think DN felt that if you took a random sample of players from 25/50 and stripped them of their tools that he could beat them after 2 weeks. Honestly, I think he'd have a good chance vs players unassisted.

who coaches Dneg?

Another brilliant question ITT. Most likely gonna be ignored just like the first one about the stakes DN thinks he could beat online right now.

Here I was thinking someone with a supercomputer solved the game and was willing to share the solution with DNegs.

Install HUD, take maney, the f do.

They are completely different games, tournament and cash game poker that is. Daniel has definitely won an impressive amount of tournaments, but amateurs have won the same kind of tournaments, so obviously skill is not the only requirement to have success in those games.

Amateurs don't beat high stakes poker games in the long run. Amateurs are the reason high stakes poker games exist in the long run. I'm not suggesting DN is an amateur, but it's pretty obvious that it takes something different to beat high stakes cash than high stakes tournaments. I think myself and a lot of other people would agree that Daniel has never demonstrated the ability to beat games as hard as 25/50NL on PS over a meaningful sample. Which is probably why there seems to be so much interest in the details of this bet.

All of the analogies that you made apply to both cash games and tournaments. Amateurs can also win in cash games over the short term, and amateurs are also unlikely to win in tournaments over the long term.

I completely agree that it takes something different to win in cash games. They are different games, but not so different that a world class tournament player should not be able to transcend to cash games or vice versa with enough effort.

Plenty of players do complete at a very high level in both games.

It's certainly interesting, I just think the hate is stupid and unwarranted.

I think a lot of people who wants to bet against him respect his achievements in live MTT. But live MTT and online HS cash games are just two very different things. Daniel that he be a world class player in a game that he never really played after 2 weeks of studying. That is like if Dirk Nowitzki claimed that he could become a ML baseball after two weeks of training. It is just not realistic and very disrepectful to all the people, who play 25/50 online on a daily basis.

And Daniels whole behaviour indicate to me, that he made a dumb tweet and is now too embarressed to say that he was wrong. Instead he makes up several stipulations to disencourage anybody from taking this bet.

Daniel is highly respected for his abilities and skill set. However, this skill set does not (currently) include high stakes 6max online 100bb cash games, which are much different than live, 8max-full ring tournaments. The former entails a lot more technical mastery while the latter favors someone who can stare a guy down for 3 minutes and make a correct read.

Wow when did ''Negs'' realize Hud wasn't just a Paul Newman movie? i guess poker is dead.

lolled

The fact that you quote all Daniel's achievements in tournament poker suggests you don't really get it that tournaments and cash games are very different beasts.

There are likely many better live tournament players than Daniel that haven't won anything such is the variance involved.

what's the point of this bet if he isn't playing against winning players? who cares if he can beat bat players?

these bets are always bull**** scams, first someone declares that they can do something that everyone thinks they can't and they will just use some trick or "loophole" to turn it into something else which is much easier to do

daniel there are players at all stakes who simply join a table and play poker including at 25/50 like wilhasha red baron ike wcg etc. etc., maybe some of them aren't even winning who knows, if they are only playing each other some of them might be on a big losing streak but these are the guys you have to play against if you wanna say that you an beat 25/50, otherwise nobody cares if you can beat a fish

oh and making a deal with someone to play in these games is clear cheating unless the bettors know about it beforehand and agree with it

so unless you want to bet that you can beat 5 regular winning players nobody cares

So those who play 25/50 on a daily basis, who beat the limit, are allowed to play regs and obv fish whenever they wanna join the party, but DN has to play against regs exclusively so that he can say he beats the limit?

He said he'd be a winner, not that he would be better than the top regs in two weeks. Obviously playing exclusively against whales is not the point of the bet either, but the way I see it, beating a limit means having a positive winrate over a decent sample playing the whole field, regs and the occasional fish. I guess that's what we all do when we say we beat a limit right? Or until we have crushed only the top regs of our limit we can't really state we are winners there regardless of the winrate and the sample size?

It shouldn't be complicated. Log on, play 50k hands, check bankroll, log off.