Doesn't "healthiest consecutive three-day ecosystem results of the year" mean pretty much whatever PS wants it to mean?

Yeah, except there's a difference between:
1) Handing $4M specifically to the aggrieved SNEs (regs / net withdrawers)
2) Distributing $4M among the poor and huddled masses (tens of thousands of recs, with a handful of regs thrown in)

The latter makes it far more likely that the $4M comes back to them in the form of rake churn or table game degenning.

Yet another reason why the "HAY GUYZ, SORRY FOR TEH STEELING, BUT HEREZ $4 MILLION CHEEZBURGURZ" compensation is so laughably disingenuous.

This explanation is what so many people on this forum don't understand or focus enough on.

#recycledrake

I don't want a customer that likes to sue me to be a customer anymore.

My point was that the SNE players need Stars a lot more than Stars needs the SNE players.

The only other response was that some SNEs would lie and create new accounts etc...

I think that they did a good job interviewing Daniel too. They asked the right questions and they pretty much made sure that DN didn't divert his answers. My problem with the interview, though, was although Terrence and Adam clearly didn't like the idea of the $4 million freerolls, I don't think that they went far enough in pointing out the absolute absurdity of claiming that those freerolls would in any way compensate SNE players for their money lost.

Daniel claimed that since the SNE players are pros, they are the ones who are going to walk away with the bulk of the prize money thus compensating them to some extent.

First of all, there are going to be so many players playing the freerolls that the prize pool is going to be spread out amongst thousands of players. There are going to be very few places paid that could possibly compensate SNE players. Any players that might receive compensation will only be a tiny tiny fraction of the players owed.

Secondly, the players who actually have an edge in those games are going to be the good tournament players who play tournaments for a living. The SNE players who have been grinding out cash games for the past few years might not even have an advantage over the rec players who regularly play tournaments let alone the good tournament players who will be in those games.

I think that Daniel Negreanu's intentions were probably in the right place by agreeing to the freerolls as compensation; but I also think that he got outplayed by the Amaya executives. Executives misdirecting pro players into doing their bidding is nothing new. We saw Jen Larson do it at Lock Poker, and we saw Joe Seebock and other pros at UtlimateBet get lied to and led around by the nose by Paul Leggett. Now we see David Baazov, the very person who hired Paul Leggett after BlackFriday, do the same to Daniel.

Those freerolls are a promotion, nothing else. They in no way compensate the SNE players.

Re the $4m freerolls. Does this mean even someone like myself who doesn't play on Stars but has played a few thousand hands in the past will be eligible to play?

1) discussion about ability to play on Stars in 2016 is not relevant and a rat hole.

2) Before some start spending this 25K+ on christmas gifts, a few things should be considered


- These estimated damages were based on potential future states of the world thus only predictions. It could be argued the environment/ecosystem would have deteriorated to the point that playing that much volume in 2016 would have been impossible .

- SNE's should recognize the worldwide poker system was/ is in a state of decline. They (the workers) along with the company (Stars) will have to share a piece of this burden and cant expect them to be paid in a future utopian perfect world scenario as that world would have likely never existed.

- The 25K+ estimate is for work that was going to be performed in 2016. Thus if the work is not needed to be performed for any sort of compensation, then SNE's have +EV in opportunity costs as they are free to continue to pursue online poker or other endeavors.

So, reasonably minded SNEs would have to agree that regardless of your feelings on where in the range the number should be per SNE, they should be adjusted downward to take into consideration the above three bullets.

Does that make sense?

Your logic is that the future is unknown and people shouldn't reasonably have expected anything, even what was advertised?

No that's not what I'm saying .

They should expect something but there are mitigating factors that reasonably minded people would probably agree should be adjusted downward but likewise any reasonably minded person would agree that adjustment is certainly not all the way to zero.

Well if I was going to grind my ass off for a year or whatever to get SNE rewards the following year I would make damn sure there was some sort of guarantee written into the TOS. Otherwise I wouldn't even attempt it.

Relying on some "promise" they made in their advertising/promotion is just foolish imo.

Sidebar: this kind of flew under the radar, but just last week, the details of the endorsement contract Stars signed with Neymar were leaked: he gets $2 Million Euros / year.

The figure of $3M has been speculated re: what Daniel gets from Stars. Neymar contract may give a little bit more context for the speculators.

"The document reveals that the company will pay Neymar two million euros a year - of which 400,000 go to Doyen - to promote Pokerstars."

Nice chunk of change for the Doyen Sports Agency...20% off the top of everything. Nice.

I see they also represent Boris Becker. I wonder how much he got for his Stars sponsorship a few years ago.

The Slovaks worked out after the deduction for his agent he gets 80K euros per social media post.

http://www.pokermansk.cz/jeden-statu...ra-ovsky-8502/ (in Slovak)

TBH this isn't related to SNE though, if they think he brings in the money then he's worth it, if he doesn't he isn't.

Ignoring all the other good points, as to the bolded don't SNE's more or less break even pre RB on average? So he's saying the compensation consists of the fraction of the prize pool that does get dumped back into cash games, which itself is probably not huge in reality, is consumed entirely by amaya who in turn throws a few crumbs at the SNE's in the form of rakeback? So the SNE's might get to keep 2% of the amount that even got recycled? Nice. Insult is really the best way to describe it.

So instead of making $200k you would go work at McDonalds for $10k because there might be a little risk in the first option? Or are you saying it was between the SNE grind and taking that gig at a New York investment bank? GTFO.

And I bet a third party controls his twitter. So it is basically 80k euro for every picture they use of him in a tweet from his account, while he is off chasing the ladies. Nice work if you can get it.

Same here.

Would be so easy and even somewat cheap for them to make most of teh issues go away.

So teh only thing which i can come up with is they really really want people to completely stop playing and for teh case they still decide to continue they have to do so for a much lower salary now.
Regs went from stars best friends to neutral and now to teh biggest enemy

stop typing like a ****ing idiot.

detective itt

what if pokerstars went to the anonymous type games of bovada. Would be one way of shielding the recs .

a lot of people seem to believe that stars only cares about raising rake and that the other changes are a smoke screen.

i'm saying the "compromise" suggests the reverse or at the very least that they have a very specific plan

Any word on who is protecting the recs from the sportsbooks and online casinos?

You missed one

I just withdrew the last of my PS/FTP rec micro roll.

Thanks for the integrity thing DN.

I'm going to play on UK sites until PS gets its **** together.

Too much being made of these freerolls. Daniel was stupid to mention them in his post because they have nothing to do with SNE's directly.

Their value has nothing to do with EV. If done right they're a pretty good thing to market to and lure new small stakes players.