Daniel Negreanu Angleshooting or "misclick"? EPT BARCELONA High Roller - Page 6 - Poker News

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Daniel Negreanu Angleshooting or "misclick"? EPT BARCELONA High Roller

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01-02-2014 , 01:38 PM

#126

Pixcat

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,367

Nobody twisted Silverfishes arm to go allin with king high.

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01-02-2014 , 02:02 PM

#127

jjjou812

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 6,817

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelflush

If DN was telling the truth he would've said so in the post hand interview. Why is this so hard to understand?

But he smirked and winked during the interview, so why is it so hard for you to understand that he was lying about telling the truth about his lie?

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01-02-2014 , 02:06 PM

#128

jjjou812

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 6,817

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelflush

. I think by saying, "I meant to make it less," DN is hoping to get weak action, but more importantly, he's saying that the following lies are also acceptable:
1. "I'll show if you fold."
2. "I didn't look at my cards."
3. "Let's check it down."
4. "I always chop blind vs blind."
5. "I have 5000 behind."

.

Amazing interpretation. Where are you getting any of this from?

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01-02-2014 , 02:42 PM

#129

wheelflush

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,385

They're all angles that work when your opponent trusts your word. Stuff you'd expect from Tony G.

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01-02-2014 , 03:53 PM

#130

P!NK

banned

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelflush

The people excusing DN seem to fall into 2 categories:
1. Those who believe he made a misclick.
2. Those who would never fall for this angle and are happy to see someone else get burned.
I think it's ok to judge DN's actions on their own, without regard for whether Z deserved it or whether the move would have worked on me. I think by saying, "I meant to make it less," DN is hoping to get weak action, but more importantly, he's saying that the following lies are also acceptable:
1. "I'll show if you fold."
2. "I didn't look at my cards."
3. "Let's check it down."
4. "I always chop blind vs blind."
5. "I have 5000 behind."

Such lies might get a penalty. They usually won't. But they're bad for the game. Yes, scummy.

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01-02-2014 , 04:04 PM

#131

Heartland

adept

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 780

I think it was an intentional misclick. His "surprised" reaction looks forced when he makes that "ahhh" noise and the reaction was too soon after he dropped the chips in to be a genuine surprise. Also, when he calls the shove with AK, he gladly calls with a "my plan worked" sort of demeanor.

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01-02-2014 , 08:23 PM

#132

betgo

banned

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 28,590

Player pushing apparently treated it as a straight math situation and made a resteal. Perhaps Negreanu had some read on the players to act that he thought that kind of play might work.

He had AK, so he doesn't lose much if he just takes down the blinds, so the play doesn't have to work that often.

Seems pretty nervy to try a play like that in a superhighroller. First of all, expecting it to work often. Then, it is televised and is bound to be all over forums like this with people calling it an angleshot.

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01-18-2014 , 06:45 PM

#133

shuffl

newbie

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by betgo

Exactly! It's not so much the action itself, but Daniel's arrogance about it in thinking it was in any way "ok".

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01-19-2014 , 04:01 AM

#134

David123

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,819

lol at getting owned by that low limit move

and to all those crying about it being nothing but totally fine, u need to grow up/grow thicker skin.

Last edited by David123; 01-19-2014 at 04:13 AM.

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02-15-2014 , 05:52 PM

#135

reraise85

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 239

Bump for dnegs,would like ur opinion on this hand,would u also take this line against an amateur player or do u think its fair game if they tried to take advantage of the misclick not having a go just interested in ur thoughts,welcome back to 2+2

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02-15-2014 , 05:57 PM

#136

DNegs

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 260

I haven't revealed whether it was a misclick or not, but that's irrelevant. To those opposed to using a misclick as a tactic against an opponent: so you are saying that it's OK to exploit a misclicking error, but not exploit the person trying to exploit your mistake? That seems pretty unfair!!!

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02-15-2014 , 06:31 PM

#137

V4LDO

stranger

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNegs

I haven't revealed whether it was a misclick or not, but that's irrelevant. To those opposed to using a misclick as a tactic against an opponent: so you are saying that it's OK to exploit a misclicking error, but not exploit the person trying to exploit your mistake? That seems pretty unfair!!!

It's not irrelevant. That's what this topic is about.
IMO it's OK to exploit a misclicking error and also OK to exploit the person trying to exploit your mistake, but it would be nice to admit after the hand if it was a misclick (which i doubt) or if you were actually trying to do a fancy play.

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02-15-2014 , 06:39 PM

#138

wheelflush

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,385

thanks for replying

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNegs

I haven't revealed whether it was a misclick or not, but that's irrelevant.

you would have told us if it wasn't intentional. i'll give you credit for being honest.

Quote:

To those opposed to using a misclick as a tactic against an opponent: so you are saying that it's OK to exploit a misclicking error, but not exploit the person trying to exploit your mistake? That seems pretty unfair!!!

I answered this question in post 86.... I'll try again.

YOU made it impossible for KJ not to "exploit the error."
What is an honest poker player supposed to do in the face of an overbet misclick? Never bluff heads up? That is silly.
I'm not saying KJ made a good bluff. But for you to call him [out for being] exploitative is like saying, "Honest players are supposed to call me with a marginal hand." And that's scummy.

Last edited by wheelflush; 02-15-2014 at 06:48 PM. Reason: they're both exploiting each other. but only one of them is lying.

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02-15-2014 , 07:49 PM

#139

AAlimper

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 368

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNegs

100% agree with u here DN. IMO, a great play, not even close to an angle.

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02-15-2014 , 08:32 PM

#140

Sect7G

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,234

Daniel,

Is your justification for trying to angle someone well it's ok because he had no problem taking advantage of my mistake. (it was your original angle that started it)

Would you try this move again? Any regrets?
Do you feel it's good for the game or does it make us look like con artists?
Have you taken any tips from Doug Lee?

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02-15-2014 , 08:40 PM

#141

DNegs

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 260

Quote:

Originally Posted by V4LDO

It's totally irrelevant because I'm stating that I'm OK with the idea of someone doing it on purpose. Whether or not I did it on purpose isn't something I need to share. Maybe I did, maybe I didn't :-)

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02-15-2014 , 08:46 PM

#142

DNegs

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 260

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelflush

thanks for replyingyou would have told us if it wasn't intentional. i'll give you credit for being honest.

I answered this question in post 86.... I'll try again.

YOU made it impossible for KJ not to "exploit the error."
What is an honest poker player supposed to do in the face of an overbet misclick? Never bluff heads up? That is silly.
I'm not saying KJ made a good bluff. But for you to call him [out for being] exploitative is like saying, "Honest players are supposed to call me with a marginal hand." And that's scummy.

That's one interpretation. Another is: he has a massive stack and isn't forced to risk it all in the hopes that my misclick was legit and that I also didn't have a strong hand. He had a choice to raise, fold, or what most top pros agree was the correct play: call.

Clearly he wouldn't do that unless he thought I made a mistake. Nothing wrong with him exploiting what he perceives as an error on my part, but I also contend that there is nothing wrong with me exploiting him trying to exploit my error.

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02-15-2014 , 08:49 PM

#143

DNegs

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 260

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sect7G

First of all, I have never stated one way or another if it was a legit misclick. There is a lot of psychological warfare that takes place in high rollers and it's important to keep things close to the vest. In terms of whether or not I would do that on purpose, again, I want to keep my opponents guessing. So maybe I would, maybe I wouldn't. Next time I misclick, I've done it many times obviously, my opponents will have to just think twice before deciding to exploit my mistake.

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02-15-2014 , 08:52 PM

#144

Sect7G

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,234

So you think Doug Lee's actions are good?

If you think the public wants to have to guess whether the player made a mistake or is a con artist then you're pretty delusional.

If someone else did this you'd call him a scumbucket and this is exactly what's wrong with the game etc.

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02-15-2014 , 08:53 PM

#145

PoopyPokemon

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 266

Not sure why this is even a discussion. Part of the game is deception and Daniel was able to do that on this hand and take advantage of the situation.

Quote

02-15-2014 , 08:57 PM

#146

Protential

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 12,460

I think it was pretty clear you did it on purpose by the way you acted during the hand (seemed like it at least, really felt as though you were trying to over-sell the miss click, if you had miss clicked i think you would have acted as though that was what you ment to do).

I don't think that faking the miss-click is unethical nor do i consider it to be an "angle", I think it can be a good tool to use online and live and is part of the game (no worse than any bluff).

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02-15-2014 , 08:58 PM

#147

Jigsaw

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,308

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNegs

Of course you intentionally did it. There is no way that you did not know what you were doing.

No one, to my knowledge, said that the person trying to exploit your mistake was ethical.

Both of you are weasels.

Don't forget, DNegs, when you are on television, the evidence can be reviewed over and over...

Here is another example of you trying to pull a fast one, and you lied your way out of it to get a ruling in your favor. The expression on your face should have told the floor person that you were lying:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLyaQCkyZKE

Annette knew that you changed your story, but she decided to mind her own business.

Last edited by Jigsaw; 02-15-2014 at 09:05 PM.

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02-15-2014 , 09:00 PM

#148

Sect7G

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,234

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoopyPokemon

Not sure why this is even a discussion. Part of the game is deception and Daniel was able to do that on this hand and take advantage of the situation.

I've never heard of Doug Lee being kicked out of a tourney for his actions...as they aren't technically illegal yet he's universally despised on here.

What's the difference between Doug's and DN's actions? Why should they be treated different.

Deception is ok for the game... as in bet sizing/check raising... but as DN enjoys talking about the "old school" players he'd be the first to admit that this type of move would have given him a Texas sized azz kicking had he done it down there back in the day.

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02-15-2014 , 09:01 PM

#149

ShaneG

self-banned

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 883

It was a creative play that worked out nicely in the end.

Silverman obv thought it was a legit mis click and that he'd get him to fold out >90% of his open range and thus picking up the 11bb of dead money. Little did he know that he was being lured into a cunning trap.

It's fair game though, and unforced errors should be punished in all forms of competition so there's nothing wrong with exploiting a legit misclick, if Silverman was better at reading people and their intentions he would have noticed the forced act that was being played out in front of him.

Usually when some one mis clicks live they stay quiet and not let on that it's a mis click.

Quote

02-15-2014 , 09:10 PM

#150

Nobel1

grinder

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 666

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaneG

Usually when some one mis clicks live they stay quiet and not let on that it's a mis click.

Yeah but would have been fun when someone at the table would start laughing and say he took the wrong chip like here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugj1iDZV6dc

I guess its borderline when you make a move like that against a recreational player, who has never seen that before.
A pro in a highroller should know this could be a trick and has to acknowledge this in his decision making.

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