how much of an edge you need to beat to game ? of course the technology is greater...but who care these bots barely make it

Remind me to type a novel on heuristic based bots tomorrow and ill do it. Humans and bots alike can still make too much money for one lifetime playing online poker.

Didnt read whole topic, but that i did it makes sense for me. Every1 does know it just can't be coincidence there appears only good regs from east, who does instantly crush the game, right after exiting bot ring got banned. As players from there used to be pretty much ~worst players after italian/spanish players until the early 2010. Also those are known IRL by no one, unlike players from elsewhere. ~every good reg does know there are bots at pokerstars.

Name names of Stars bots

There's prettymuch always bots online. At least 60% of plo 200+ russian reg accounts and at least 75% of ukrainan accounts are. also some from other countries like austria, poland, canada etc. Won't call them by nicks because i cant prove 100% sure that who is a bot and who is not. Gotta be super naive or braindead to say there's no bots, or that those aren't, as most of them did appear after exiting bot ring got banned, and all of them did instantly crush the game.

I cant prove it but this seems to be happening on Bet365(IPoker Network).

it appears some of these have infiltrated a club on pppoker i play in, or a few clubs ha ha. i dont mind them too bad im trying to crack them lol. they are pretty good. i was impressed to see the same bot play a strong game a 9max, 6max, 6max shorthanded AND HU. i didnt know they could do all that. maybe it is a russian human playing in this case?

If the only two possibilities in your mind is that a player is a bot or a Russian human, I suspect you have no idea what you're talking about.

i know a little. ive been told i was dealing with bot but i was surprised to see bot play 9m, 6m, HU etc im not too in the know, but i suspect that that is pretty advanced for a bot? or no?

OK, so then how is "Russian human" the only other possibility?

i happen to know the ip address is from russia so bot ran by russian or russian human player makes sense

is anyone aware of bots that can play 9m 6m and HU? thanks

Yes, I've witnessed 9max bots that will remain at a table even when the action dies down and it gets short-handed. I don't think they're particular great at any one format, but they can certainly play well enough to make money against most micro and lower stakes populations. This only refers to the type I'm most familiar with. There almost certainly are other ones out there that I'm unfamiliar with.

Poster (at #111) asks if the bots are actually operating at PLO? Does anyone have a definitive answer on this? Especially 5-card PLO.

Recently the PPPoker AntiCheating team claimed to identify identified multiple accounts botting in their PLO5 games. On several occasions last week, days apart, they ID an agent responsible, ban the agent, all of the accounts of the agent (implicated or not) and advise the Union Head to stiff the host (of the agent) any win/rakeback for the week (in most instances this amounts to tens of thousands of dollars). Similar process occurring across all game types (AntiCheating Team is about 6 months old, app is 3-4 years old).

Whilst it's nice to see some interest from PPPoker to prevent cheating, no evidence of cheating was provided to anyone in the chain (player, agent, host, union head). The "trial" was conducted in the dark and the conclusion promised as 100% reliable. They refused to accept offers from players to prove innocence by playing on video.

I wonder, did they find a group of players guilty of using a bot that doesn't actually exist?

I find it hard to imagine there's a commercially viable bot that can solve/win 6max PLO5 in real time while news is only recently breaking about AI beating 6max NLH pros, no?

Does a PLO5 bot exist? If not, there's a short term solution for players wanting to avoid bots (except at PPPoker where you might actually be banned/stiffed for *being* a bot).

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Rake is the bot at PLO5

An interesting, similar thread has appeared in NVG: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...husng-1755968/

Thanks a lot !!! This explains a lot of weird stuff that happened to me the last year in poker. I open lobby... games look soft.... and when I enter the tables suddenly a player from Russia/Ukraine/Germany takes position on me on all tables and make my life hell. If he leaves, another player like that will enter and do the same. When I quit, they also quit. Even if there is a 90 VPIP fish in the game.

I’m 100% into advancing the game, and I think bots, from the perspective of science and improving what we know about ai, machine learning, gto etc, are great. Biggest problem is that botters are cowards. Putting bots to play vs humans, esp recs, without telling them the account is a robot that can’t tilt, spew, and that never gets tired, just show how pathetic they are.

But I think it would be great to have bot-only networks with big limits, like nl 1k+, with very small rake that would be paid monthly (in advance) requiring let’s say at least 1m hands/mo or smth like that. But those botters wouldn’t have the balls to enter that competition obv, they are cowards right?

Hi guys, Russian is my first language and yesterday for the first time I read the whole (49 pages) original thread devoted to Bot corp. on GipsyTeam (GT) created by the same author. As my little contribution, Id like to share some points that I find interesting but not mentioned here. I am sorry if some of them appear to be a repetition of what have already been discussed. The following points is my personal perception of the information available on the GT, keep it in your mind.

1) The author of the thread (TA) has revealed this story because of payback (revenge) motives. His informer is a former co-founder of Bot corp. who was kicked out of the business.

2) The story begins in 2006-2008 and closely connected with Poker Moscow team. At that time they created their first bots to exploit limit holdem games. They made more than 1kk $ playing at stars and were banned by its security service. At the same time a lot of players who used Poker Moscow as an affiliate were also banned.

3) GT administration and co-founders found the story and its argument realistic and plausible. However, they do insist on their impotence in this situation as a poker forum and affiliate. They believe that only poker rooms security departments are in charge for dealing with the bots threat.

4) Noteworthy, there is at least one “famous” former GT forum member who was steadily blaming GT administration for making profits (as a poker affiliate) from rake which is generated by bots operators in Chinese apps, rooms and PokerDom. According to him, these people are (were) aware about a bots issue for a couple of years but they have not done anything. ( May be they cant do anything, idk)

GT response is (was) always the same, it is a crap and bullsh**. Some players consider that the actual evidence was presented but it is small and indirect. Some think that GT is guilty 100% for making dirty money which does not smell.

5) After the story was revealed some of acting faces left from the list of Bot corp. and affiliated companies’ founders. This information was obtained from an official open legit registry of all Russian companies, firms and enterprises. The screenshots with changes in names of founders are available on GT.

6) Moreover, GT readers found open job positions belonging to Bot corp. or its affiliates whose description was similar to a work of a bot operator. The positions are closed now but screenshots are available on GT.

7) SSL hypothesis, TA does not seem to be very advanced in technical stuff. Historically, “bots” get information on a hand in play with recognition of a graphical image on a screen. Hacking SSL might mean that now “bots” are capable of reading information that is sent from a poker server to a user’s client directly, so graphical recognition is not required anymore which boosts productivity of bots decreasing time required for a decision-making process.

8) TA cant provide SN of bots operators because he does not have access to this information. According to him, it does not make sense to ban an account of one bot operator while Bot corp. continues to exist because the next day they will register a new account.

I don’t know what is possible to do on the matter to fix it but I would really love an opportunity to play poker online with real people not AI in the next 5-10 years. Thus, I wrote this post.

Perhaps, if Stars support receives enough players’ requests to investigate the case it could provoke some steps, actions. Perhaps, I am too naive. Perhaps, these steps are already done, idk.

Please, correct me if I am wrong. I heard some stories about prominent very wealthy US companies that were audited by respectful independent third parties but one day they just collapsed.

thank you for sharing

Moreover, GT readers found open job positions belonging to Bot corp. or its affiliates whose description was similar to a work of a bot operator. The positions are closed now but screenshots are available on GT.
yep, when i saw this **** it was clear to me those *******s are guilty AF.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...posed-1775516/

For those who don't read NVG.

In this topic, many players expressed their doubts about the existence and scale of the BF Corporation. But over the past six months, several new topics have appeared on the forum, confirming everything I said in my first post.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...poker-1772229/
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...ealed-1772724/
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...ealed-1777912/
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2.../#post56329844
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...posed-1775516/

Also in the post

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...8&postcount=97

I talked about the project of the poker "eco-room". My suspicions at the time were caused by Patypoker and Pokerdom. Now, while monitoring various poker networks, I have serious suspicions about the WPN room. I described this in detail here

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...1&postcount=83

It seems to me that if anyone had doubts, shouldn't have them anymore. I'm not talking a group of friends who wrote a bot for fun. This is a large organization that deals with illegal activities on the Internet. This is an organized criminal group. And although most of the offices are located in the Eastern part of Russia ( Omsk, Novosibirsk), thanks to the Internet, they soak money from the pockets of players in Europe, America and Asia.

I reopened this thread.

- NeoLab, Deeplay etc. is a real deal.
- Probably, this is the biggest poker bot business in the world.
- The owner is probably a criminal linked to corrupt governmental authorities (however I can't confirm this). He owns different kinds of businesses in his own city Omsk in Russia like gold mines, meat factories, and even private schools.
- The company Deeplay has officially declared 6 million USD in revenue for 2022 and 251 employees. Link to the russian registry
- These people are a cancer of the online poker industry.

The OP is welcome to add new facts to this thread.

Bonus. Photo of the owner. This is a real magazine in Omsk. The caption translates as "Life in Omsk can be good". Omsk is a town in Siberia.

The OP provided a screenshot of their internal chat in HipChat from which was clearly seen that they were operating bots at least since 2011.