Cliff notes of the 'Portuguese Poker Prodigy' Jose "Girah" Macedo scam - Poker News

Original thread: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...xpost-1079435/
HSNL thread (please keep NVG in NVG, though): http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...xpost-1079436/
Long chat log posted by MossBoss: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...8&postcount=23
Haseeb/DogIsHead/InternetPoker's blog: http://www.cardrunners.com/blog/internetpokers

>> FIRST POST
- Girah joins strategy groups and top players are impressed with him
- he creates a second group to discuss strategy and do live sweats
- Girah pushes his friends like MossBoss to play sauron1989, claiming he was a fish, while Girah was sweating them
- sauron1989 proceeded to gain over 30k from Girah's buddies
- sauron1989 and Girah's Skype frequently went online and offline at the same time
- after Mossboss starts to investigate, Girah confesses and promises to pay back the money scammed plus a compensation of 30k per player

GIRAH'S APOLOGY POST
- claims "friend who I introduced to poker" gave him the scam idea
- says his agreement to do scam was a "mixture of guilt and stupidity"
- apologizes for the scam, says he will pay back players with stipulated compensation

>> JNYC POST
- he too got scammed, his story is similar to everyone else's
- says TooCurious messaged him saying Girah was probably cheating
- they contact iPoker and Merge; also Dog and Jungleman
- Girah claimed that sauron1989 and dollarman, another scamming account, are the same person, "his rich friend"
- Dog says on Skype that Girah confessed and that he would get the money back
- Dog says he and Jungleman will pay victims back if Girah doesn't
- Dog says that he would rather the news didn't go public, "was insistent"
- Dog almost defends Girah, saying he was too young and stupid to know better
- Dog and Jungleman admit they have backed Girah in high stakes poker, but deny any involvement with the scam
- "the only thing Dog cared about was his reputation"
- MossBoss says his post is true

CONSEQUENCES TO GIRAH
- is no longer a Lock Poker Pro
- gets fired from Poker Strategy

OTHER POSTERS
- imfromsweden: confirms the scam, implying he was one of the victims
- Dog is head: didn't expect that from Girah, not moving to Portugal to live with him anymore, says "none of us who supported Jose had any idea about any of this"
- sauce123: "could barely believe it", said Girah told him on Skype to "to put money on ipoker and play "this aggrofish sauron1989 at 50/100"
- Mossboss: says iPoker player maxkatz1 PMs him confirming he's also a victim
- Giev money???: Girah added him on Skype and he guesses he'd push the scam on him
- kjemmy: was cheated, confirms story

IVVAEN POSTS
- Girah "did not feel bad and confess", "he lied and denied, lied and denied and lied and denied some more."
- Girah said on Skype that they should not out him because they should "think about [my] rep", i.e., they shouldn't have outted him because his sponsors would drop him
- says Girah was playing on Toshisan account on iPoker, who Girah claims it is Dog's

MAXKATZ1 POST
- he first approached Girah for coaching lessons, which he says were bad
- Girah showed, for no apparent reason, great interest in sweating him
- lost 15k to sauron1989
- heard that Girah asked iPoker reg to sweat him while he lost 8 buyins on 10-20 to sauron1989

RUMORS/THEORIES
- Girah lied about winning $1.8M and being scammed for $250k
- Girah himself posted the "Looking for Portuguese Poker Prodigy" thread to make himself famous
- There is a lot more to this story; other players could be involved.

GIRAH'S ALLEGED ACCOUNTS ON SITES
- Ongame: IfOnlYouKnew
- iPoker: Toshisan

*>> JUNGLEMAN'S RESPONSE*

- when first heard about Girah possibly scamming, thought it was impossible
- says Dog wants them out of public attention because of their relationship with Girah and the "crazy ****" that would go down on 2+2
- "Haseeb and I have nothing to do with Jose's dumbass actions"
- didn't like the way Girah was building hype for himself
- Girah is not his protege, he just coached him

Cliffs of Haseeb Qureshi/DogIsHead/Internet Pokers Blog Respond:
(courtesy of PokerStrategy.com)

Girah came to Qureshi some time last year to seek advice and direction with his poker career. Qureshi was impressed by Girah's work ethic and understanding of the game. Haseeb is adamant that Girah was the real deal, stating: "Any and all conspiracy theories of Jose being completely invented as a puppet account are not only utterly false, but completely f****** ridiculous on many levels".
As well as giving him poker tips, Qureshi began to work as Girah's unofficial agent. Girah became obsessed with marketing himself positively, and Qureshi agreed to edit some of Girah's blogs and press releases.
Knowing that Jose "was crushing 6-max with a huge winrate" after receiving details from Girah's Hold'em Manager, Qureshi and Jungleman agreed to stake Girah for the nosebleeds. They strenuously deny having used Jose's account to play poker on.
Qureshi takes responsibility for Girah being disqualified from the Lock Poker Challenge, describing how he logged on Jose's account to play a couple of sessions of $25/$50 Pot-Limit Omaha following the turmoil of Black Friday. Qureshi also admits that Girah used his "Toshisan" account on iPoker.
Upon hearing about the cheating allegations, Qureshi notes how Girah told him an elaborate lie about his "rich fish friend". When faced with the strong evidence presented by twoplustwo users, which included dubious hands, Girah finally confessed to cheating using the accounts "Dollarman" and "Sauron1989".
Qureshi admits he had an emotional attachment to Girah, and that he was initially reluctant for news of the scam to go public because he had Jose's staking money tied up in Lock Poker.
Like the rest of us, Qureshi has no idea why Girah conducted the scam.

Long list of quotes added by NoahSD

Quote:

Originally Posted by MossBoss

Hi 2p2, I’m a 6m and HU player on iPoker by the username of “jajay1963”. I met José in a strategy skype group which was set up by TooCuriousso1 to discuss HU strategy amongst good players.

José’s strategy contributions to this group were exceptional, and many top players were very impressed. Early in July, José created a second group which he said was for the best players to further discuss strategy, review each others videos and do some live sweats, to discuss hands just after they had happened. José and everyone elses’ strategy discussion continued to be very good and in early July, somewhere around the 10th, Joséwatched 2p2 poster ImFromSweden whilst he played a session. During this session IFS played sauron1989 HU on iPoker. IFS lost just over $10,000 in 70 hands of $10/$20 but both of them typed into the skype chat group that they thought that this sauron1989 was very bad. About 10 days later, José offered to watch me whilst I played a session on iPoker. Thinking that this was a good opportunity for me to have my play reviewed by a top player, I agreed and he watched my session start out as a 6max session but soon I had sat with sauron1989 on an empty 6max table, after José had told me that this guy was bad and spewy and proceeded to lose a total of $21,900 to sauron1989 over the course of 2 matches at $25/$50. I felt like something was wrong during the matches, not a feeling I can explain, but it just didn’t feel like any other HU match I’ve played and I got suspicious.

After reviewing the skype chat logs, it became fairly clear that José was massively pushing this sauron1989 to anybody who had iPoker funds, saying that he was very bad and that everyone should play him (and let him watch when they did). I voiced my concerns to TooCuriousso1 and we proceeded to work hard to dig up evidence to prove this. Lots of circumstantial evidence was available; José’s chat logs were extremely suspect, where he would push players to play sauron1989 despite not seeming to play him himself. We soon witnessed that whenever José would disconnect from skype, sauron1989 would sign out of the ipoker lobby and would sign back in when José reconnected to skype. This happened 3 times in 20 minutes and all 3 times both José’s skype and sauron logged out and in at the same time. During our attempts to find more evidence, it became clear that José was also operating under the username of dollarman223 on the Merge network. He scammed TooCuriousso1 for $900 and appeared to be setting up another member of the group for a further scam at $50/$100, which we anticipated would be his biggest scam. Once we voiced our concerns to the rest of the group it became apparent that José was setting up quite a few of them for a scam.

Obviously it was naiive and stupid of me and of the others to allow José to watch our screen whilst we played high stakes, but based on a few months of internet friendship and the great strategy José posted, we believed he was entirely trustworthy (despite the scepticism voiced in José’s NVG thread).

To José’s credit, before we had fully conclusive proof, though our suspicions were becoming apparent, he confessed what he had done, and promised to pay us back all of the money plus was adamant that he would pay compensation for the time that we had been forced to put in to unearth the cheating. We have been promised reimbursement for the money stolen by Jose while superusing. Once I receive the funds, I will then send IFS and TC what they are owed.

We have co-ordinated this with José to allow him to write his statement in here for all to read. His statement will be posted below.

edit: regarding the confession, we received a full admission of guilt at a point at which it was more or less apparent that we already knew we had been cheated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by girah

I'm going to be taking a break for a while. There is no right or wrong way to say any of this, so I'm just going to say what happened.

A while ago, I did something stupid. A friend of mine, who I introduced to poker, made a suggestion to me which was, I'm not going to sugar coat it, cheating. I had introduced this friend to poker and he was losing money, badly. He asked to play some of my poker friends and said why don't you sweat them and we'll see their hands. I don't know why I agreed. I don't know why I did it. I guess it was a mixture of guilt and stupidity and feeling ****ty for getting him involved in something which seemed to be bad for him.

This went on for a short while but I felt so bad, I had to say something. I confessed. I told the guys involved what I had done, I told my friends and the people who I respect and who respected me.

I told my Mum, confessed everything to her. I could see the disappointment moving across her face as she told me she was not proud of me despite all my success in poker; she was not proud of her son. She said how she hadn't raised me this way and what had poker done to me. Thats when it hit me, how badly I had let people down. I felt ashamed, I had no explanation; explanations don't cut it in situations like this and often come across as excuses.

There is a quote on the wall in my school which I always see as I pass the nurse's office. It says that the real mistake is not tripping up, but staying down. I thought of that and that's why I'm writing this.

I'm holding my hands up and taking whatever consequences come. I realise the severity of this, but I also realise that I have to take responsibility for my actions and so I'm paying back everyone involved and in addition paying them compensation of $30,000. I've also told my sponsor etc and whatever happens there I will take the consequences too. They have been really amazing to me and I've enjoyed every minute of working with them. Representing Lock and being part of their amazing team, witnessing the incredible growth, was a pleasure and an honor.

I'm young, I made a mistake and I hope that this doesn't define me; I hope that how I deal with this and move forward is the thing that does. And people will say I have no excuse and I know and understand that. I agree. I just want to let everyone know, I'm sorry. I apologise to the guys who lost their money, the people who I love and care about and I have disappointed and the guys in the poker world who have supported me for letting them down. I wish Ish I had something to say to you all, to say to my parents and my friends and all of those who thought I could do no wrong.

Again I'm really sorry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOG IS HEAD

We never imagined that Jose could do something like this. Suffice it to say that Jungle and I will be changing our plans and will no longer be living in Portugal with him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

I was shocked when Kjemmy brought this to my attention and could barely believe it.

I have (informally) coached/chatted with Jose for over year now since he somehow got my skype and showed he had a sharp poker mind. I did this because I admired his drive to improve and he seemed like a nice kid who could go far in poker. Jose offered me large sums of money for private coaching which i refused in order to talk strat/general bull**** over skype for free. I have repeatedly vouched for him on 2p2 as well.

Kjemmy brought these suspicions to my attention which I dismissed as circumstantial (until IP addresses were confirmed or Jose confessed) because I felt that the scam was so flagrantly unethical and poorly conceived that I couldn't imagine Jose or anyone rational doing it. That same day, Jose advised me on skype chat to put money on ipoker and play "this aggrofish sauron1989 at 50/100" and I still was not convinced he was scamming.

I suppose the only constructive thing that can come from writing this post is that I want to advise other poker players to be extremely, extremely wary of others' intentions, especially when so many interactions occur online. There are many incredibly honest people in poker who have fostered a climate where deals totaling thousands or millions of dollars are brokered on people's word alone, usually without incident. We have to both be more careful about trusting other people these days and we also have to make sure people who behave like Jose are barred from the poker community by any non-violent means possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MossBoss

It would appear that the confession isn't to be taken at face value, just received this PM (maxkatz1 is a real ipoker player):

Hey,

I'm maxkatz1 on ipoker and read the whole story today. Basically I had done some investigating after loosing to sauon1989 and Jose sweating me 3days in a row and was gonna post sth similiar. He also said sth about a nick on ongame and i kinda suspect its also one of his scam accounts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivvaen

I was in the skype group and can safely assume that Jose tried to set me up for a scam as well. He is the nut low scum and can never be forgiven. I want to clear some things up. First of all, ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME:

Quote:

This went on for a short while but I felt so bad, I had to say something. I confessed. I told the guys involved what I had done, I told my friends and the people who I respect and who respected me.

This is so immensely false and infuriating. Jose did not feel bad and confess. We had gathered lots of evidence and he caught wind of it. He lied and denied , lied and denied and lied and denied some more. This cant be stated enough. He used all sorts of arguments about how well we know him, how much strat he has posted, “what would I gain?”, “youre my friends” etc. He absolutely tried to deny this for as long as he could and did NOT come clean out of guilt like he claims here. FU Jose you scum, I don’t ever wanna hear about you or see your face ever again. I hope you quit poker and never make a cent from it ever again. SCUM!

Furthermore, from Jose’s conversations about this on Skype he is NOT as sorry about this as he proclaims. He even had the balls to say this last night when we informed him we were going public asap:

[01:25:17] josé maria macedo: stop thinking so much about your reps
[01:25:20] josé maria macedo: and think about mine
[01:25:22] josé maria macedo: for one second

Once again, are you ****ing kidding me????? This kid does not grasp what he has done.

Secondly, this friend story has to be a load of crap. For example, Jose claimed on Skype that Merge wouldn’t detect the cheating by looking at IPs as his friend was online by the use of a mobile internet 3g pen. Why, then, did Sauron disconnect at the same time as Jose, who was on his normal internet connection?

Now, when it comes to the sweating. The point of it was to rail in real time and comment after. Personally, I never got sweated by anyone, but I sweated Jose playing a random fish one time. I did comment in real time on hands and I acknowledge that this is wrong and I should not have done it. It was not my intention when talking about sweating in the first place, and I consider it a mistake and will never do it again. This was the only time I have been involved in any type of sweating as long as I have played poker. From talks with the other guys it seems like they all merely sweated and that any real time communication was extremely limited. I believe this.

I leave you with this gem from the Portuguese Russ Hamilton who is so so sorry for what he has done:

[16:00:16] josé maria macedo: i assume you all know this
[16:00:24] josé maria macedo: but if it goes public, both mysponsors are dropping me
[16:02:45] XXXXX: yeah they're aware
[16:03:16] josé maria macedo: ah, really?
[16:03:20] josé maria macedo: damn
[16:05:28] josé maria macedo: theyreally know that both sponsors will drop me?
[16:05:35] josé maria macedo: and still want to?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilrg

I was gonna post this today... Jose scammed me for atleast 15k on ipoker.

On 28th of June I contacted Yoan Gaidov from hand4hand.net about coaching with Jose Maria Machedo, the so called portuguese poker prodigy. He gave me his Skype info and I added him. He said that he would talk with Jose and forward my information to him. He told me there was a waiting list of like 50 players.
On 29th of June he gave me Joses Skype info and I added him. From that day I would try to contact Jose about coaching. He would ignore me first but then after like 2 weeks we finally scheduled a session. I filled out his questionnaire and was good to go. He wouldnt show up to the first session and also missed the 2nd one we scheduled making up excuses. Then he apologized and said he would make it up by coaching me for free for 2 sessions.
On 07/17 we had finally our first session where we talked about some theory. The session was nothing special and I didn,t get the impression that he is as awesome as everyone seems to think he is. He basically send me the links to the hands he posted on 2p2 (also the hands he made his first video for pokerstrategy) and talked about them. He told me to prepare some conceptual hands and send me to him. I would do that but he never really analyzed them. He would then ignore me again for some days and when our next session was due he delayed it during to having so much stress because of his first video being released.
At this time I was playing almost only on pokerstars and partypoker. On 07/28 I would started playing on ipoker on my old account (maxkatz1) I haven't played there for a while. Jose knew my name there since he asked me on 07/17 about it and. All of a sudden Jose started to show an unreal amount of interest to sweating me. After bascially ignoring me for over 3 weeks and hardly doing anything that can be considered coaching he would suggest to sweat me up to 3-4 times a day starting on 07/31. I played up to 9 tables of 6 max on ipoker.

Basically he wanted me to play ongame or ipoker during our sweatsessions. He told me his nick on ipoker is toshisan. Pretty strange if you look it up on ptr - plays low - midstakes hu.
He told me that his ongame account was frozen and that he thinks that games on ongame are great so I should play there and asked me about what my nick there is.
Ok so now the fun part begins. After starting the sweatsession a guy named sauron1989 would sit with me at every table he could at 10-20. He would make some garbage plays (coldcall crap pf v me - make some stupid bluff) then type that he is tilted in chat and ask me to move up in stakes).
Jose told me that he played him for over 3k hands and that he thinks that sauron is a huge fish. He told me he lost like 15k to him at 25-50 but will play him again since hes got really good reads on him. He also encouraged me to start 10-20 games with sauron. I lost about 15 k to sauron on the 3 days where Jose did sweat me.
He would spazz here and there but other than that he was playing in god mode - calling every single bluff of mine. Jose tried to encourage me to play sauron hu and also asked why I won't play him at 25-50.
After sking him several times he finally agreed that I can sweat him and he played about 45 minutes on merge on his girah account. Before and after the session he was asking me again and again if he can sweat me. He was never really interested in analyzing any hands. I got suspicious after getting crushed by sauron 3 days in a row and asked a friend of mine (mdma) about his opinion. He told me that he has read some interesting stuff on a swedish pokerforum a while ago. Basically Jose asked an ipoker reg to sweat him when he played a fish hu. During that session he lost 8 buins or so on on 10-20. Guess to whom he lost? Sauron 1989!
Toshisan has not a single hand played v Sauron1989 according to ptr. Jose asked me to play Sauron from my account since hes getting no action from him. He asked me if he can sit in 4 handed with Sauron1989, me and geeforce1. I said sure but he wouldn't. Then telling me that his ipoker account is blocked cause Hasseeb logged in.
So it all looks pretty strange. First he ignores me and doesn't wann do any coaching. As soon as he sees me playing on ipoker he can't get enough of sweating me. As soon as I sit at ipoker Sauron sits at very table of mine at 10-20 with position and plays in godmode. His ongame account is blocked. His ipoker account is blocked. His moneybookers deposit limit is reached so he cant make a new account and deposit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjemmy

I've just spoken with ilrg and what hes writing seems to be true as well, unfortunately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MossBoss

can confirm that this appears to be true from talking on skype

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilrg

[01.08.2011 21:47:13] josé maria macedo: ifonlyouknew guy is -19bb loser on ongame and -100k loser on ipoker if its the same guy

so basically hes advertising to play this guy on ongame like he did with sauron on ipoker - if anyone was sweated by him v this guy please post - I lost 3,5 k to him durings the sweat with Jose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giev money??

Pretty sure that Girah tried to scam me too. Few days ago he PM'ed me and said he had something to propose for me and wanted to add me to skype. At the skype he instantly asks me if I play at ipoker and tells me that there is a big fish playing 25/50 50/100 (haven't seen any big fish there and there is not much 25/50+ games going on at ipoker anyway).

I had to leave and haven't talk with him since but for some reason I have a feeling that the big fish playing at ipoker was gonna be sauron1989......

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungleman

Hey all, this has been about as weird and surprising to me and the other high stakes guys who know Jose as it has been for everyone else. I was told he was 100% trustworthy and he seemed like the type to be so, so I never questioned his integrity. I still don't really understand why he not only scammed people in one of the scummiest ways possible, but also decided to risk his whole career for a seemingly small amount... Clearly I made a mistake in trusting him, and now question our relationship as a whole.

Haseeb and I are in Europe still trying to get settled in to play online once again, we have talked about the situation and we can't abide by what he did, so we can't live with him in Portugal and I can no longer consider him my student.

Again this is all really ridiculous, I and the high stakes players who supported him in the past never would have imagined he would do this. GL to all those who got scammed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOG IS HEAD

Hey guys,

This whole situation has come as a huge surprise to all of us who've been supporting Jose. No one ever imagined he could do something like this, and honestly I still have difficulty understanding his motives. We've been traveling to Europe (Jungle and I have been in Gibraltar for the last few days) and as such, I had to be very brief, with having to wade through all of the commotion in what's happened from every end. Since Jungle and I decided that we no longer can be with Jose after the way he's betrayed our trust, we have changed our plans from Portugal and are now trying to sort out another place to live within Europe. This whole situation is a huge cluster**** to say the least.

Right now it's very difficult for me to spend a lot of time on 2p2, but as I've heard that the rumors and speculation are running rampant, I will say this and I will say it as emphatically and clearly as I can. None of us who supported Jose had any idea about any of this. None of us. We supported Jose and believed in him singlemindedly, I will admit that. I personally had a very strong relationship with the kid. I don't know why, but none of us who believed in him ever imagined he had it in him to be so greedy and dishonest to do something like this. Clearly, we were wrong, and as was I to place our faith in him. What he did was really ****ed up and inexcusable. I may be able to write more once Jungle and I secure a place to live and lay our heads, but for the moment we are very all over the place. But for everyone who thinks that there is some huge conspiracy or that Jose is a puppet for some high stakes scamming ring - get a ****ing grip, ffs.

Suffice it to say, the OP speaks for itself. I wish the best to all of the victims in dealing with this.

Haseeb

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxwoodsFiend

Two thoughts:

1) This is by far the worst thing a poker player could do. It's theft pure and simple. There are a lot of questionable actions that you can excuse as "oh I didn't really think about it, but yeah now that you mention it, it's kind of messed up [eg multiaccounting back in the day when it was never discussed critically]" or "there are arguments on both sides [eg HUDs, live coaching, etc]" but this is not excusable in any way. The complete depravity required to do something like this is just shocking. He should go to jail, nobody should believe a word he says b/c at this point he's got nothing to lose by lying and trying his hardest to make himself look good, and the poker community needs to completely shun him. There are lots of situations in which somebody should get a second chance for a youthful or thoughtless mistake. This isn't one of them.

2) Everybody trying to blame Sauce/Jungle/Haseeb is crazy here. Regardless of whether past rumors wrt the Big 3 using Jose's account are true (I didn't fully read the thread, have no opinion on the subject, etc.), nothing that anybody suspected these three of at all relates to this scamming situation. Taking previous speculation and conspiracy theorizing and using it as evidence of guilt in one setting, and then presuming that guilt and trying to use it as evidence of guilt regarding an entirely unrelated issue is insane. It's like hearing a rumor durrrr and Ivey collude, assuming they collude, and then blaming durrrr for the recent NoahSD article about Ivey.

The most you could say is that they made a bad judgment call vouching for this guy and this helped make him famous. The only problem with that is that there's no way to see something like this coming and when you vouch for people on the internet it's never "I did a thorough background search and subjected him to numerous tests to see if he had hidden sociopathic behavioral traits," the most you can ever vouch for somebody you're not IRL friends with is "I can vouch his story checks out and that he's been honest and forthright with me in the past." Basically, they talked to a guy who obviously knew his poker stuff and who befriended them on the internet, and expecting them to somehow be responsible for people falling for his scam reads way too much into what vouching actually means.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

I've never had any financial arrangement with Jose of any kind. I've never sweated him or been sweated by him and have only interacted with him on skype chat. As to how Jose got my skype name I have no idea- at the time it was simply Ben Sulsky or something similar so it really wouldn't be that hard (it has since been changed btw). Jose just happens to have been the only person to contact me in this way and not come off sounding like a stalker. My motivations were simple: I like talking poker and was impressed that this 17 year old kid was on track to crush, so I tried to help him out a little. Believe it or not this actually happens, people (still) help each other for free ...

As far as coaching Jose all I did was answer his HH and theory questions on skype chat. I still don't feel comfortable charging some sick $/hr number for my time, I prefer to just crush at the tables where there's no possibility for bull****. (the expert insight coaching $$ go to charity btw)

Kjemmy came to me with this news a few days before it was posted on 2p2 as Jose had touted his relationship to me for various purposes and Kjemmy figured I could look over the evidence with an eye to defending Jose. I checked out the chatlogs and Sauron1989's suspicious log in history as presented to me by Kjemmy. I concluded that the evidence was circumstantial and that Kjemmy should contact the sites in order to get the IP info for the Sauron account as well as Girah's info. If they matched up then the evidence would be clear cut and Kjemmy could confront Jose. In the next few days Kjemmy et all confronted Jose and he confessed, so that was that.

As far as me being the "whale at the end of the line" or whatever, I have no idea what Jose's intentions were. I do know he suggested to me to get money on ipoker to play "a huge aggrofish named Sauron1989." To be fair, I had said to Jose that I was considering getting money on ipoker and only then when I was basically walking into the trap did Jose seem to get the idea to scam me. He didn't pressure me or maneuver me into getting scammed in the way that he did to the OPs.

Anyways, I have absolutely no reason to defend my actions or my intentions in this thread. I have since blocked Jose and ceased all contact with him, of which there was very little in the first place and nothing outside of internet bull****.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

I am not responsible morally or legally for the actions of someone I vouch for. I am responsible morally that anything which I may post when I am vouching for someone is accurate to the best of my knowledge, and that I don't go around heedlessly posting things I have little idea of the accuracy of. If it isn't accurate then people can question my discretion in vouching for someone, but that's about it.

Here's an example of a post I made recently vouching for someone: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...46&postcount=3

In this post the only claim I make is that I a) did in fact play the person at mid/high stakes, b) in my opinion they played well, c) I bought a coaching package from this person I was satisfied with and d) In my informed opinion I think the person is a strong player and coach.

If somehow (and I have not even the most remote reason to think this, there is nothing to read between the lines here) this person had fabricated his results in order to sell coaching, my only culpability is that I was taken in by him enough to make the above claims b,c and d. Other people on the forums might then justifiably question my reputation as an expert on poker.

The same sort of thing happened with Jose. I was satisfied that he had a sharp take on poker theory and therefore saw no reason to be particularly skeptical of his results. Since I thought he was a large winner I in turn saw no reason why he would engage in cheating as despicable as this for such a comparatively small amount of money. For those of you who watched his video, I think it seems quite credible that Jose has a sharp mind for poker theory and you all might understand my mistake. Others of you might doubt my supposedly expert opinion in the future, which is totally OK with me and justified.

It would be dishonest for me to be recommending Jose in a coaching thread if I expected to get any cut of the profits or had any vested material interest in Jose's coaching success. In the actual case of Jose, all that I attested to was his reality (the proof of which were my repeated chats with him on skype which started long before the 2p2 thread(s)) and that in my expert opinion it was plausible he had put up the impressive results he posted, and that I thought this was plausible because he seemed to have a sharp poker mind.

Hope that clears things up,

Ben

Quote:

Originally Posted by JnyC

So this is a very long thread and I am not going to read through all of it. Below is my account of everything that has happened.

Girah invites me to a skype strategy group. This was probably a 4-6 weeks after black friday. During this time, I was playing very little poker and was almost non-existent in the group. I didn't participate in much strategy discussions nor any sweat sessions.

At some point, I log in and Girah and Toocurious are talking about a fish named dollarman223. TooCurious mentions that this fish plays terribly preflop but seems to 'own' him postflop and that he plays 25-50+. Girah pushes me to play dollarman. TooCurious is horrible at poker, so I decide to play dollarman. We play a short session of 1 table of 25-50 where I end up winning. During this time Girah is messaging me on skype but not viewing my screen. Dollarman leaves only to return in a short while. We begin playing another session during which Girah presses me very hard to allow him to 'sweat' me via teamviwer. Reluctantly, I agree.

I want to stress that this is the first and last time I have allowed anyone to 'sweat' me at my regular stakes. I have allowed students to watch me play much lower stakes and ask questions later - but that is where my 'sweating' experience ends.

Dollarman and I play another short session, this time with Girah watching via TV. I run numerous suicide bluffs, all of which work and end up winning about 4k overall. Dollarman becomes 'tilted' and asks to play 50-100 deep. I decline. He asks to play at a different time and we exchange e-mails. Over the next 2 weeks, dollarman e-mails me several times asking to play 2 tables of 50-100 deep. Over the same time period, Jose becomes super insistent that I play dollarman and allow him to TV. It becomes almost an obsession for him. He is also insistent that TooCurious play dollarman and allow him to TV and that the European guys in the group who play on ipoker play sauron.

This goes on until toocurious messages me and says he believes that Girah is cheating. It is decided that we contact ipoker and merge to try and collect some hard evidence and look for links between Girah and dollarman. One of the guys ends up contacting Sauce and Dogishead.

While we waited for responses, one or more of the group members pressed Girah for information. I was not involved in any of the discussions with Girah, as I have had very little contact with him since TooCurious brought up these allegations but I did read through the chat transcripts that were posted. It was clear that Girah knew that he was caught as he had come up with a story that his 'real life frined' super used him. This story was sent to at least 3 people in the group, myself included. Following this he admitted to ToOCurious that dollarman and sauron are the same person and that it is his rich friend from school and that "sometimes" he played at his house. A bunch of other BS followed.

The next day(?) Dogishead enters our skype chat and says that Girah confessed to him that this cheating took place. Prior to this, Girah did not confess to me nor anyone else within the group as far as I know. In any case, Dog says he will get back the money of those who lost it. In fact, he gave his word that if Jose didn't pay then he and Jungleman would. He then asks if we are going to go public with this and mentions that it's up to us, but he would rather it didn't go public. He mentions that they were going to go live with him...but if this gets out then they can't do that anymore...implying that if this wasn't outed they would still live together(?). He continues by taking on the role of big brother and almost defending Girah by saying that he's young and stupid and that while what he did was scummy, he doesn't think that he's a bad person and a whole bunch of other comments that rubbed me the wrong way.

During these conversations, Dog admitted that both he and Jungleman back Girah for highstakes games. This leads me to believe that either Dog or Jungleman were the mysterious backer who logged in to play PLO during the Lock Challenge. Jose also mentioned that one of the ipoker accounts he uses is in Dog's name. To quote Dog "draw your own conclusions".

Dog was very insistent that we hold off on making any posts before he had a chance to deal with this situation as both Jungle and him had "strong ties" to Jose. He also wanted us to wait and "confront" Jose and let him "explain himself" and other completely asinine kindergarten BS.

It became apparent (at least to me) that the only thing Dog cared about was his reputation, not about what his "very close" friend did, not about the people who were cheated - only that he's not portrayed in any way that could damage him. He confirmed this yesterday when, upon learning that all of the above would be posted, came into the skype group and said that if this was mentioned, "there is NO way [they] can agree to bank transfer the money".

According to Dog, in terms of reimbursement, Jungleman was going to bank wire funds to Moss who would distribute them to those who were cheated. I don't know if this is still the plan or if this has happened yet since I am not owed. It is a complete mess and it is possible that Girah may be repaying the funds via Lock.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MossBoss

can confirm Jay's post is true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivvaen

2:24:56 AM]

Quote:

Jose also mentioned that one of the ipoker accounts he uses is in Dog's name.

josé maria macedo: i can login to my own ipoker account?
[2:24:58 AM] josé maria macedo: well not my own
[2:25:15 AM] josé maria macedo: but the owner hardly plays
[2:25:20 AM] josé maria macedo: toshisan
[2:25:32 AM] Nick Frame: why dont u just have your own account
[2:25:40 AM] Nick Frame: i dont play on any1s account but my own...
[2:25:46 AM] josé maria macedo: my moneybookers is blocked
[2:25:54 AM] josé maria macedo: like reached its limits
[2:26:03 AM] josé maria macedo: so i couldnt deposit any more after i put however much on prima and lock
[2:26:09 AM] josé maria macedo: and toshisan is my account
[2:26:16 AM] josé maria macedo: its not in my name but its mine
[2:26:29 AM] josé maria macedo: its a very close friend's
[2:26:31 AM] josé maria macedo: dogishead

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjemmy

Jose offered the 30,000 before we had gone public with this. Me and Moss were in a discussion with Jose trying to sort out the payments, and he offered. We told him clearly this is going public no matter what and if it's as meant as a bribe, we'd decline no matter the size. He said he knows and just wanted to give compensation.

More than that I don't know, unfortunately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjemmy

According to the three of them (jungle, DIH, jose), Jose had put up a 40k deposit for the house Jungle and DIH were moving into, so they owed him money. What was said was that if Jose didn't come through and pay up, DIH and Jungle would take money from what they owed and make sure the money was paid.

This ended up not happening - Jose is sending the entire amount to me on Merge - and there was no 'bribe' from DIH and Jungle's side to keep their names out of this.

The reason we kept their names out was because we werent completely sure how deep it went, and we didn't want to cause a huge ****storm if we were wrong. After reading more into it, Jay decided to go ahead and post all of the convos and what we had discussed in the skype chat. The rest you can read yourselves in Jay's post; Jungle and DIH have backed Jose, apparently Jose's ipoker account is in Haseeb's name, etc etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ansky

To the ppl demanding FWF respond to the new post:

I just texted him and told him about it, he said he is out for the night and will respond tomorrow. He was just saying that given the info at the time that there was no reason to rush to judgment, I'm sure he will give an updated opinion on the matter when he sees the new stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cts

From Ashman's twitter:

arfarfhowl Ashton Griffin

For the record, Jose Macedo blantantly stole from his friends and students. The number may be more than what he claims. To my knowledge.....

To my knowledge Daniel Cates and Haseeb Qureshi had 0 knowledge of his transgressions while promoting him and backing him. However, they....

have at the very least used accounts, mostly being Jose using the 'Toshisan' account which is Haseeb's. I would bet a lot that HQ/DC........

didn't go past account sharing which is something that should be frowned upon and shouldn't be condoned, but not blatantly cheating.

I would wager a lot that DC/HQ are 100% people of utmost integrity. HQ lost over $250k to me in a running bet and paid me every dollar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungleman

Here is my side of the story:

About a week ago kjemmy on 2+2 messaged me saying he thought Jose was scamming him and his friends, with a lengthy explanation... I told Haseeb about it and he said Jose had mentioned something about sauron1989/dollarman as well, to be honest I did not inquire that much because I thought it was basically impossible for Jose to be pulling such a scam. Later in Gibraltar, Haseeb talks with Jose and the victims and actually suspects Jose is scamming based on how he is responding, and gets a confession out of him. Incoming ****storm... Haseeb and I know a bunch of crazy **** is about to go down on 2+2 and, given our public relationship withJose, want to basically stay out of Jose's crucifixion (well so much for that). Hence the chat logs trying to convince the victimsnot to talk about us... As for the payment we owed Jose money and would rather pay the victims than give Jose the money because it seems more fair. Once again, Haseeb and I have nothing to do with Jose's dumbass actions.

On another note, I didn't like the way Jose seemed to like to build hype for himself: challenging durrrr in the durrrr challenge, taking the isildur challenge, offering to play anyone giving 1bb back at 200/400--basically suggesting he's better than he was in ways that he could not back up. I've always been a proponent of the idea that respect should follow from being worthy of respect, not vice versa--something that Jose's actions contradicted. Lastly it's a bit exaggerated to say he was my protege, indeed I did coach him but for maybe a couple of sessions at best in addition to answering questions. Many others are my protege moreso according to the time I've given them.

For his actions, Jose should burn on his own. I am not involved in this ****storm. Also, Haseeb will be commenting shortly/writing a blog post shortly to explain everything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MossBoss

thought i'd just post that $21,900 has been xferred to my overbet account on merge, so i've been paid the full amount i lost to sauron1989.

If you'd like something added to the cliffs or something in the cliffs changed, please PM NoahSD.

Last edited by NoahSD; 08-08-2011 at 11:07 AM.

08-07-2011 , 06:27 PM

imabigdeal

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,418

cliffs regarding jnyc's post are not comprehensive enough imo. jnyc's post implicates Dog much more and your cliffs do not really reflect that aspect.

08-07-2011 , 06:31 PM

IamPro

one time Plz???

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,652

Thanks for the cliffs

08-07-2011 , 06:33 PM

3x Range Merger

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 285

Quote:

Originally Posted by imabigdeal

cliffs regarding jnyc's post are not comprehensive enough imo. jnyc's post implicates Dog much more and your cliffs do not really reflect that aspect.

Fixed that, I believe.

08-07-2011 , 06:36 PM

Hklm8383

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 2,052

unforgivable obv

08-07-2011 , 06:37 PM

Steve_Sketch

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 272

Noah was putting together cliff notes and is going to be closing original thread following the posting of chat logs between jose and victims prior to sweating session. But this is well done 3X.

Jnyc's post implicating Haseeb in an effort to cover-up or atleast minimize exposure of scam has been one of the most significant. This post was verified by matt whom is the op of original thread MossBoss

08-07-2011 , 06:37 PM

MagicMurderBean

banned

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 743

lol his ****ing results pic just reeked of insane bull****.

Anyone know what his actual winrate was?

08-07-2011 , 06:37 PM

imabigdeal

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,418

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3x Range Merger

Fixed that, I believe.

Yeah that's much better.

08-07-2011 , 06:39 PM

Turb0Licious

aka Turb0

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 5,054

Good cliffs appreciate it, the other thread is hard to sift through.

08-07-2011 , 06:39 PM

#10

daxile

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 593

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicMurderBean

lol his ****ing results pic just reeked of insane bull****.

Anyone know what his actual winrate was?

No one really knows or cares. The fact of the matter is he wasn't the player he claimed to be and that's all that really matters.

08-07-2011 , 06:47 PM

#11

SGT RJ

Twitching

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 49,109

Thanks for your work, Noah and OP.

All interested parties who don't want to read the 1K+ posts of the other thread will now be up to speed.

Obviously information still needed includes:

Chat logs that MossBoss is working on as we speak.

Answers from JM/DIH regarding their relationship with Girah, why one or both of them would have been willing to cover losses from the scam, why they appear to rescind that offer if the scam is made public.

I really have almost no faith in online poker right now. There are probably still more honest people than scums, but Jesus, figuring out who is which is exhausting.

08-07-2011 , 06:48 PM

#12

SolidSystem

newbie

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 31

This thread should be in the cliffs since it's where this started: Portugese prodigy wins over 2 mill on euro sites. LF more info!

And this quote in that thread is where DIH started this scam:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOG IS HEAD

Haha, interesting thread.

A friend of mine pointed this out to me. I haven't been on 2p2 much lately, but here's what I know.

I know this kid and have been talking to him for a while. His name is José, he approached me a while back for coaching (I'm not the aforementioned coach in this thread). He seemed extremely intelligent and hardworking. He told me that he studied poker 3 hours a day every day, just reviewing hands and breaking down his opponents. He said that in a matter of six months from when he started poker, he had gone from a micro stakes bankroll to becoming one of the biggest winners at 5/10-10/20 6-max and was trying to break his way into the 25/50 games. Now, in 2006 or 2005 you heard those kinds of stories often enough... but in 2010, that's an unbelievable progression up the stakes. And as if that weren't amazing enough, on top of all that - he was 17 years old.

I've talked to José quite a bit and have given him a lot of advice on various things, but since the very first moment I met this him, I knew he was a prodigy. I remember Sauce saying that he was probably on the road to becoming one of the strongest players in poker. AFAIK, he's approached both Sauce and Jungleman for coaching, and has tremendous knowledge and dedication to the game. Right now on American sites he's pretty unknown, but this kid has just turned 18 and is now positioned to take a serious run at the top of the poker world.

It's a pretty ****ing crazy story. I look forward to seeing what this guy can do with his career.

Haseeb

08-07-2011 , 06:50 PM

#13

NukeRaise

banned

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 246

this is why i lol so hard at the micro sweat sessions sticky. 2p2 promoting strangers sweating strangers. wonder how many scammers use that place for feeding.

i dont understand why he would do this for such a small amount of money. hes better off being asked to get staked and then chipdumping to a friend.

i think the lesson is to not trust people more than you have to. railing through skype/teamviewer is only one possible way people can see your hole cards obviously. there is something called "malware". look it up. there are stickies in all the strategy forums outlining on how to secure your computer against malware. even so, letting somebody unaccomponied next to your computer who you dont trust is asking for trouble. they can install malware which cant be detected.

08-07-2011 , 06:51 PM

#14

atthebottom77

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 1,487

dil·i·gence/ˈdilijəns/Noun
1. Careful and persistent work or effort.

08-07-2011 , 06:51 PM

#15

inkognegro

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,249

nice cliffs

08-07-2011 , 06:52 PM

#16

epcfast

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 2,535

Was anyone taking up the bet with dogisscum going to get outright scammed for the money?
he was freerolling that

08-07-2011 , 06:53 PM

#17

insidemanpoker

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 3,590

This looks VERY bad for Jungle and DiH. The fact that they are willing to pay with their own money shows just how bad it is.

08-07-2011 , 06:53 PM

#18

Color Up

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 323

Decent cliffs, but missing a whole bunch of the early on stuff.

It's obvious that PPP's persona was "launched" in a systematic manner. Why? (we know at least partial answer is to scam). Who else helped launched this persona, and why? The answer is the subject of a furious debate for months, and now that sinister intentions have surfaced, can't help but wonder if the "help" also had sinister reasons/involvement.

08-07-2011 , 06:54 PM

#19

Charmer

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,028

good cliffs, but link to HSNL thread sucks.

08-07-2011 , 06:55 PM

#20

GloupnaktouK

adept

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 749

At this point, Haseeb is at the very least guilty of trying to cover up the whole situation.

Apparently some people think that's perfectly fine since he was trying to protect his rep; I just don't understand that attitude.
I think both JM and Haseeb and anyone who knew Girah for what he was had a responsibility to immediately come forward with the truth.
It's completely unacceptable that Haseeb was trying to cover that **** up and imo that makes him a scumbag.

If it weren't for JnyC coming forward, we might've never known that about Haseeb since other HS players from the skype ring were just crossing their fingers that they'd get their money back.

08-07-2011 , 06:58 PM

#21

Paul McSwizzle

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 5,531

such a strange story. clearly DIH needs to address JnyCs post

08-07-2011 , 07:00 PM

#22

kramersaidGETTYUP

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,374

@SGT RJ

Well.. You could just sit yourself up in a position where you don't allow other people to watch your holecards while playing HU, and therefore you not having to worry whos a scumbag and whos not.

Jesus, how ****ing naive is it possible to be? Dont be such a dramaqueen. People have scammed, killed, murdererd, raped and stole for 100 000 years, its not like its new to human kind.

08-07-2011 , 07:00 PM

#23

MossBoss

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,564

This is ridiculously long and because I don't want to spend 5 hours trawling through this and putting in the necessary/taking out the unnecessary, I have included it all. If someone wants to go through it all and include the stuff that seems most relevant in another post, feel free. Hopefully it gives you some indication of what has gone on though.

I apologise also if any personal information is in there, I just haven't checked it thoroughly since it's taken ****ing long to compile anyway. Apologies also if I have actually missed anything, though I doubt anything important has escaped this stupid number of messages.

I anticipate the dogishead chatlogs will be wanted too, haven't started on those but I guess one of us will sort those out soon.

dollarman when he was sweating nick----->

[7/9/2011 7:34:47 PM] nicholas frame: i might quit him
[7/9/2011 7:34:51 PM] nicholas frame: hes pretty tricky
[7/9/2011 7:35:10 PM] josé maria macedo: heh i wouldnt quit
[7/9/2011 7:35:29 PM] nicholas frame: meh
[7/9/2011 7:35:37 PM] nicholas frame: ive got kind of a nitty dynamic going
[7/9/2011 7:36:38 PM] josé maria macedo: what kind of players do you wanna play then?
[7/9/2011 7:39:01 PM] josé maria macedo: i think hes a spot, 3betting this much
[7/9/2011 7:39:05 PM] josé maria macedo: 41%
[7/9/2011 7:39:05 PM] josé maria macedo: wtf
[7/9/2011 7:39:09 PM] nicholas frame: yeah i do too

[7/9/2011 7:39:21 PM] josé maria macedo: why not sell some?
[7/9/2011 8:11:57 PM] josé maria macedo: id def play him again
[7/9/2011 8:12:04 PM] josé maria macedo: if he sits you again
[7/9/2011 8:12:06 PM] josé maria macedo: ping me

[7/10/2011 1:20:23 PM] josé maria macedo: im just about to go for dinner
[7/10/2011 1:20:25 PM] josé maria macedo: ill be back later and sweat
……. He returns a few hrs later and they start chatting for a bit and then:
[7/10/2011 4:38:52 PM] josé maria macedo: any action atm?
[7/10/2011 4:41:12 PM] nicholas frame: nah not right now
[7/10/2011 4:41:56 PM] josé maria macedo: i never get any action
[7/10/2011 4:42:02 PM] nicholas frame: lol
[7/10/2011 4:42:04 PM] nicholas frame: dollarman
[7/10/2011 4:42:05 PM] nicholas frame: just sat at 25/50

[7/11/2011 3:46:07 PM] josé maria macedo: you planning on giving him more action nick?
[7/11/2011 3:46:19 PM] nicholas frame: yeah at 5/10
[7/11/2011 3:46:22 PM] nicholas frame: ill be honest tho
[7/11/2011 3:46:30 PM] nicholas frame: i dont feel that comfortable vs him
[7/11/2011 3:46:49 PM] nicholas frame: i hate having the passive dynamic
[7/11/2011 3:46:59 PM] nicholas frame: always feel owned

[7/11/2011 3:44:38 PM] josé maria macedo: hes played bigguy and playerplayer i think
[7/11/2011 3:45:00 PM] josé maria macedo: and romeo ?
[7/11/2011 3:45:15 PM] josé maria macedo: i really dont want him to go bust

DOLLARMAN223 HAS ONLY PLAYED TOOCURIOUSSO, JAYNYC, AND GIRAHH

[7/14/2011 4:46:34 PM] nicholas frame: sweet
[7/14/2011 4:46:37 PM] nicholas frame: got it back
[7/14/2011 4:47:36 PM] josé maria macedo: gg
[7/14/2011 4:47:38 PM] josé maria macedo: how?
[7/14/2011 4:50:35 PM] josé maria macedo: get some ipoker!
[7/14/2011 4:50:52 PM] josé maria macedo: that fish really crushed matt today
[7/14/2011 4:50:53 PM] josé maria macedo: and me tbh
[7/14/2011 4:56:15 PM] nicholas frame: who?
[7/14/2011 4:56:24 PM] josé maria macedo: sauron
[7/14/2011 4:56:26 PM] nicholas frame: bout to depo on WH
[7/14/2011 4:56:45 PM] josé maria macedo: hes just sitting every reg and crushing
[7/14/2011 4:56:51 PM] josé maria macedo: but plays so bad it seems

[14/07/2011 17:14:02] josé maria macedo: i didnt even know you played 5 10!
[14/07/2011 17:14:21] Matthew Moss: no games running higher
[14/07/2011 17:14:35] Matthew Moss: dw, im sitting 10 tables of £10/20 and higher lol
[14/07/2011 17:15:05] Matthew Moss: the reason i have all these tables of 5/10 actually was part of a grand plan
[14/07/2011 17:15:12] Matthew Moss: to steal all 5/10 tables
[14/07/2011 17:15:14] Matthew Moss: then evacuate them
[14/07/2011 17:15:18] Matthew Moss: and mean that the only 1/6s
[14/07/2011 17:15:20] Matthew Moss: were 10/20+
[14/07/2011 17:18:45] josé maria macedo: would not sit
[14/07/2011 17:18:48] josé maria macedo: hes very fishy sometimes
[14/07/2011 17:18:50] josé maria macedo: and v good others
[14/07/2011 17:18:51] josé maria macedo: suspicious as fk
[14/07/2011 17:18:54] Matthew Moss: just want the table
[14/07/2011 17:19:01] josé maria macedo: hes the guy that oscar played
[14/07/2011 17:19:09] Matthew Moss: meh i dont mind playing him
[14/07/2011 17:19:36] Matthew Moss: it's good to play all the regs you see
[14/07/2011 17:19:42] Matthew Moss: bc it means you get all the tables..
[14/07/2011 17:20:03] josé maria macedo: he always sits alone
[14/07/2011 17:20:14] Matthew Moss: if i play him
[14/07/2011 17:20:17] Matthew Moss: he might just snap sit out
[14/07/2011 17:20:18] Matthew Moss: next time
[14/07/2011 17:23:35] josé maria macedo: i might sit his other tables
[14/07/2011 17:24:00] Matthew Moss: ok
[14/07/2011 17:26:02] Matthew Moss: should w/l atlonton
[14/07/2011 17:26:06] Matthew Moss: pretty sure gordoal is big fish
[14/07/2011 17:26:19] josé maria macedo: do you think sauron is big fish?
[14/07/2011 17:26:21] Matthew Moss: only 30bb though
[14/07/2011 17:26:22] Matthew Moss: no idea
[14/07/2011 17:26:24] Matthew Moss: havent played him
[14/07/2011 17:26:25] josé maria macedo: he played like a big fish vs oscar and me
[14/07/2011 17:26:28] josé maria macedo: but just so weird
[14/07/2011 17:26:46] Matthew Moss: i'll see if i can get action then
[14/07/2011 17:26:53] josé maria macedo: man...
[14/07/2011 17:26:56] josé maria macedo: ok

[7/15/2011 9:16:22 AM] josé maria macedo: jay
[7/15/2011 9:16:24 AM] josé maria macedo: you sitting?
[7/15/2011 9:17:42 AM] ivien: ps im such a fish at buying/selling action
[7/15/2011 9:17:45 AM] ivien: get it wrong every time lol
[7/15/2011 9:17:54 AM] ivien: lost my teamviewer connectiont here
[7/15/2011 9:18:46 AM] Jay: sorry back
[7/15/2011 9:18:56 AM] Jay: just at the 1020 wanted krukr biut he left
[7/15/2011 9:19:41 AM] ivien: have we played at ftp jay?
[7/15/2011 9:20:08 AM] josé maria macedo: you got action jay?
[7/15/2011 9:20:19 AM] Jay: no action brother
[7/15/2011 9:20:20 AM] josé maria macedo: dollarman just sat me and left
[7/15/2011 9:20:22 AM] Jay: let me check, hall
[7/15/2011 9:20:29 AM] Jay: lemme sit for dollarman
[7/15/2011 9:20:37 AM] Jay: whats takes he play?
[7/15/2011 9:20:39 AM] josé maria macedo: can i rail you on dollarman?
[7/15/2011 9:20:50 AM] josé maria macedo: sweat i mean
[7/15/2011 9:26:45 AM] Jay: ig ot dollarman
[7/15/2011 9:26:51 AM] josé maria macedo: oh ****
[7/15/2011 9:26:52 AM] josé maria macedo: stakes?
[7/15/2011 9:26:54 AM] josé maria macedo: let me teamviewer!!

[7/24/2011 5:01:53 PM] josé maria macedo: not sure
[7/24/2011 5:04:16 PM] josé maria macedo: who are you on ipk?
[7/24/2011 5:04:25 PM] nicholas frame: TCfromUB
[7/24/2011 5:04:36 PM] nicholas frame: u?
[7/24/2011 5:04:57 PM] josé maria macedo: toshisan
[7/24/2011 5:05:19 PM] josé maria macedo: do you start 6m tables?
[7/24/2011 5:05:35 PM] nicholas frame: nah i might tho
[7/24/2011 5:05:39 PM] nicholas frame: im getting good action atm
[7/24/2011 5:05:43 PM] nicholas frame: overall
[7/24/2011 5:05:47 PM] nicholas frame: bout 2k hands a day
[7/24/2011 5:05:50 PM] nicholas frame: vs clowns
[7/24/2011 5:05:52 PM] josé maria macedo: yea
[7/24/2011 5:06:00 PM] nicholas frame: making 1.5-2$ a hands
[7/24/2011 5:06:09 PM] josé maria macedo: id be interested
[7/24/2011 5:06:15 PM] josé maria macedo: if you sit sauron on ipoker to give me your thoughts
[7/24/2011 5:06:20 PM] josé maria macedo: since he crushed me matt and oscar
[7/24/2011 5:06:22 PM] josé maria macedo: hes that huge fish oscar played
[7/24/2011 5:06:25 PM] josé maria macedo: remember_
[7/24/2011 5:06:33 PM] nicholas frame: ahhh yeahi remmeebr him talking bout that
[7/24/2011 5:07:20 PM] josé maria macedo: and id like to rail too
[7/24/2011 5:07:46 PM] nicholas frame: what stakes he play?
[7/24/2011 5:07:55 PM] josé maria macedo: 10 20
[7/24/2011 5:07:56 PM] josé maria macedo: upwards
[7/24/2011 5:08:03 PM] nicholas frame: prob too high for me atm
[7/24/2011 5:08:09 PM] josé maria macedo: ah
[7/24/2011 5:08:17 PM] nicholas frame: i might try and get my stay lengthened
[7/24/2011 5:08:17 PM] josé maria macedo: convince him to play 5 10?

/29/2011 7:35:01 PM] Nick Frame: i figured out the deal
[7/29/2011 7:35:03 PM] Nick Frame: with MB
[7/29/2011 7:35:08 PM] Nick Frame: im start playing 25/50 soon
[7/29/2011 7:35:20 PM] josé maria macedo: ah sick
[7/29/2011 7:35:51 PM] josé maria macedo: ipoker ?
[7/29/2011 7:35:55 PM] josé maria macedo: has sauron sat you yet?
[7/29/2011 7:36:00 PM] Nick Frame: nope
[7/29/2011 7:36:27 PM] josé maria macedo: you should sit alone at 6maxes if you want action from him
[7/29/2011 7:36:32 PM] josé maria macedo: would be cool to see you play
[7/29/2011 7:36:35 PM] Nick Frame: lol look at this action
[7/29/2011 7:36:49 PM] Nick Frame: all of them weakish
[7/29/2011 7:36:52 PM] Nick Frame: to pure donks
[7/29/2011 7:36:58 PM] josé maria macedo: haha
[7/29/2011 7:37:37 PM] josé maria macedo: yea
[7/29/2011 7:39:01 PM] josé maria macedo: im surprised he hasnt, he sits with everyone HU and 6m

[30/07/2011 21:12:16] josé maria macedo: yea
[13:58:58] Matthew Moss: ok

[30/07/2011 18:29:31] josé maria macedo: mr moss!
[30/07/2011 18:29:32] josé maria macedo: finally
[30/07/2011 18:29:46] josé maria macedo: i played sauron again
[30/07/2011 18:30:01] josé maria macedo: he plays up to 50 100
[30/07/2011 18:30:09] josé maria macedo: and i think hes a spot, i wanna discuss some hands/strat with you
[30/07/2011 18:30:13] josé maria macedo: if you still remember him?
[30/07/2011 18:33:16] Matthew Moss: yep yep i remember him
[30/07/2011 18:33:34] josé maria macedo: ok
[30/07/2011 18:33:47] josé maria macedo: so his f4bet is 25%
[30/07/2011 18:33:53] josé maria macedo: so i dont 4b bluf
[30/07/2011 18:33:58] josé maria macedo: bluff*
[30/07/2011 18:34:24] Matthew Moss: his 3b is huge right?
[30/07/2011 18:34:28] josé maria macedo: yeah
[30/07/2011 18:34:29] Matthew Moss: how wide were you 4betting for value?
[30/07/2011 18:34:33] josé maria macedo: 35%
[30/07/2011 18:34:36] Matthew Moss: i mean that alone is such a massive thing
[30/07/2011 18:35:06] josé maria macedo: like 6%
[30/07/2011 18:35:29] Matthew Moss: ok
[30/07/2011 18:35:38] josé maria macedo: im gonna sit him now if you wanna sweat

2h 30 later
[13:59:32] Matthew Moss: [30 July 2011 21:09] josé maria macedo:

[30/07/2011 21:09:45] josé maria macedo: sauron sitting, i got no ipoker atm
[30/07/2011 21:09:59] josé maria macedo: i could sweat you for 80% of your action?
[30/07/2011 21:10:01] josé maria macedo: or something
[30/07/2011 21:10:05] josé maria macedo: well hm
[30/07/2011 21:10:25] Matthew Moss: so i'd be playing 5/10..
[30/07/2011 21:10:32] josé maria macedo: yea its not worth it
[30/07/2011 21:10:33] josé maria macedo: for you
[30/07/2011 21:10:35] Matthew Moss: prob would just sell 60
[30/07/2011 21:10:38] josé maria macedo: you might as well play him yourself
[30/07/2011 21:10:43] Matthew Moss: but im just gonna chill out tbh
[30/07/2011 21:16:17] josé maria macedo: kinda freaks me out that no one will sit sauron
[30/07/2011 21:17:01] Matthew Moss: yeah it's so odd
[30/07/2011 21:17:06] Matthew Moss: that nobody thinks he's a spot
[30/07/2011 21:17:25] josé maria macedo: makes me think they know something i dont
[30/07/2011 21:17:33] Matthew Moss: yeah but
[30/07/2011 21:17:38] Matthew Moss: he just plays badly
[30/07/2011 21:17:39] Matthew Moss: it's not close
[30/07/2011 21:17:41] josé maria macedo: yea
[30/07/2011 21:17:50] josé maria macedo: you gonna give him action in future?
[30/07/2011 21:17:52] Matthew Moss: yeah
[30/07/2011 21:17:59] Matthew Moss: just not when a friends over
[30/07/2011 21:18:02] josé maria macedo: alright tell me when you do id like to watch

[7/30/2011 11:16:32 AM] josé maria macedo: you should tell him i cant play for 2-3 weeks if you want play girah and give him my email :P
[7/30/2011 11:16:33 AM] Jay: at the very least...even if contracts are sent by the time they're negotiated and revised by lawyers and all that
[7/30/2011 11:16:44 AM] josé maria macedo: so you cant play him for 2-3weeks?
[7/30/2011 11:16:54 AM] Jay: Or ever.
[7/30/2011 11:16:57 AM] Jay: If I walk. Obv
[7/30/2011 11:17:06 AM] josé maria macedo: you can arrange another site or something
[7/30/2011 11:17:14 AM] josé maria macedo: if he has a true hard-on
[14:24:04] Matthew Moss: lol
[14:24:27] Nick Frame: [7/30/2011 11:12:45 AM] josé maria macedo: yep
[7/30/2011 11:12:47 AM] josé maria macedo: do you play there?
[7/30/2011 11:12:56 AM] josé maria macedo: and when are you playing dollarman!
[7/30/2011 11:13:26 AM] Jay: No and he left me a msg eysterday but I cant even play him as per the email I showed you.
[7/30/2011 11:13:39 AM] josé maria macedo: ohh
[7/30/2011 11:13:44 AM] Jay: yeah.

[7/30/2011 11:13:51 AM] josé maria macedo: you should def play him anyway lol
[7/30/2011 11:13:52 AM] josé maria macedo: thats a huge spot
[7/30/2011 11:13:59 AM] josé maria macedo: get another acc somewhere or something
[7/30/2011 11:14:12 AM] Jay: I agree. Problem being if I win 20k and lose XXX,XXX
[7/30/2011 11:14:17 AM] Jay: not worth it :P
[7/30/2011 11:14:28 AM] josé maria macedo: so what are you gonna do?
[7/30/2011 11:14:35 AM] josé maria macedo: deny action, or ask him to play somewhere else?
[7/30/2011 11:14:41 AM] josé maria macedo: or tell him to wait?

[02/08/2011 19:02:20] josé maria macedo: mossboss!
[02/08/2011 19:02:27] josé maria macedo: ive been playing so bad lately
[02/08/2011 19:05:44] Matthew Moss: oh

[02/08/2011 19:05:45] Matthew Moss: how come?
[02/08/2011 19:05:57] josé maria macedo: i dunno
[02/08/2011 19:05:57] Matthew Moss: what stakes have you been playing bad at? :S
[02/08/2011 19:06:01] josé maria macedo: just unfocussed and kinda spewy
[02/08/2011 19:06:02] josé maria macedo: 50 100
[02/08/2011 19:06:03] josé maria macedo: hehe
[02/08/2011 19:06:05] Matthew Moss: owch
[02/08/2011 19:06:09] Matthew Moss: not a good stake level to play bad at
[02/08/2011 19:06:12] Matthew Moss: run bad as well?
[02/08/2011 19:06:16] josé maria macedo: yea
[02/08/2011 19:06:23] Matthew Moss: always come hand in hand
[02/08/2011 19:06:27] Matthew Moss: is it a big ds then?
[02/08/2011 19:06:33] josé maria macedo: yea like 200kish
[02/08/2011 19:06:39] Matthew Moss: sigh

[02/08/2011 19:06:46] Matthew Moss: is that a big % of your roll
[02/08/2011 19:06:50] josé maria macedo: first 160k played well
[02/08/2011 19:06:52] Matthew Moss: 20bi would be
[02/08/2011 19:06:53] Matthew Moss: for me
[02/08/2011 19:07:01] josé maria macedo: nah i had a big big june
[02/08/2011 19:07:05] Matthew Moss: niiice
[02/08/2011 19:07:11] josé maria macedo: its just annoying
[02/08/2011 19:07:39] josé maria macedo: you been playing any?
[02/08/2011 19:07:55] Matthew Moss: nah not really
[02/08/2011 19:07:58] Matthew Moss: been doing other stuff
[02/08/2011 19:08:01] Matthew Moss: might play today
[02/08/2011 19:08:03] Matthew Moss: not 100%
[02/08/2011 19:08:05] Matthew Moss: pretty hungover
[02/08/2011 19:08:13] Matthew Moss: you playing today?
[02/08/2011 19:08:45] josé maria macedo: maybe
[02/08/2011 19:08:48] josé maria macedo: probably taking the day off
[02/08/2011 19:09:07] Matthew Moss: cool cool
[02/08/2011 19:10:18] josé maria macedo: sauron keeps winning too
[02/08/2011 19:10:23] josé maria macedo: i might take another shot at him
[02/08/2011 19:10:32] Matthew Moss: lol
[02/08/2011 19:10:36] Matthew Moss: still 3betting ridic amounts and not folding?
[02/08/2011 19:10:41] josé maria macedo: yea
[02/08/2011 19:10:52] Matthew Moss: you played him again since we last talked about him?
[02/08/2011 19:10:53] josé maria macedo: a friend of mine played him too
[02/08/2011 19:10:55] josé maria macedo: yea
[02/08/2011 19:10:58] josé maria macedo: only a bit though
[02/08/2011 19:11:00] josé maria macedo: he quit
[02/08/2011 19:11:16] Matthew Moss: did you lose?
[02/08/2011 19:11:25] josé maria macedo: nope
[02/08/2011 19:11:30] josé maria macedo: hes too bad
[02/08/2011 19:12:00] Matthew Moss: yeah very bad
[02/08/2011 19:12:32] Matthew Moss: idk i wonder if he'll play me 10/20
[02/08/2011 19:12:35] Matthew Moss: we only played 25/50 before
[02/08/2011 19:12:38] Matthew Moss: but he's kinda insane aggro
[02/08/2011 19:12:48] Matthew Moss: dont really wanna just lap up that variance
[02/08/2011 19:13:01] josé maria macedo: yea he will
[02/08/2011 19:13:04] josé maria macedo: he played 10 20 today all day
[02/08/2011 19:13:22] Matthew Moss: oh really
[02/08/2011 19:13:23] Matthew Moss: cool
[02/08/2011 19:13:31] Matthew Moss: is he on atm?
[02/08/2011 19:13:42] Matthew Moss: not opened poker clients yet for the day
[02/08/2011 19:16:58] josé maria macedo: i dunno
[02/08/2011 19:17:11] josé maria macedo: hes mostly on all the time
[02/08/2011 19:17:17] josé maria macedo: i dont understand at all
[02/08/2011 19:17:17] Matthew Moss: so lame!
[02/08/2011 19:17:19] Matthew Moss: whenever i log in
[02/08/2011 19:17:20] Matthew Moss: on
[02/08/2011 19:17:22] Matthew Moss: he's never there!
[02/08/2011 19:17:39] Matthew Moss: and you get all the action
[02/08/2011 19:18:11] josé maria macedo: im never on ipoker
[02/08/2011 19:18:16] josé maria macedo: just donking off on prima
[02/08/2011 19:18:17] josé maria macedo:

[02/08/2011 19:18:26] Matthew Moss: lol

[02/08/2011 19:18:30] Matthew Moss: should play more ipoker
[02/08/2011 19:18:34] Matthew Moss: games are pretty good
[02/08/2011 19:18:38] Matthew Moss: prima games any good btw?
[02/08/2011 19:18:47] josé maria macedo: yea i mean
[02/08/2011 19:18:47] josé maria macedo: yae
[02/08/2011 19:18:52] josé maria macedo: but i just cant win
[02/08/2011 19:19:17] josé maria macedo: running 121k below ev
[02/08/2011 19:19:23] Matthew Moss: ugh
[02/08/2011 19:19:27] josé maria macedo: although i hate whining about that
[02/08/2011 19:19:30] josé maria macedo: since it hardly matters
[02/08/2011 19:20:03] Matthew Moss: yeah fair enough
[02/08/2011 19:20:05] Matthew Moss: helps when you're me
[02/08/2011 19:20:07] Matthew Moss: and you win every flip
[02/08/2011 19:20:13] Matthew Moss: then it's very easy to say it doesnt matter at all :P
[02/08/2011 19:20:20] josé maria macedo: idd
[02/08/2011 19:20:30] Matthew Moss: idd?
[02/08/2011 19:20:37] josé maria macedo: indeed
[02/08/2011 19:20:38] josé maria macedo:

[02/08/2011 19:20:41] Matthew Moss: ah
[02/08/2011 19:20:42] josé maria macedo: sauron playing 25 50 btw
[02/08/2011 19:20:43] josé maria macedo: sigh
[02/08/2011 19:21:23] Matthew Moss: ?
[02/08/2011 19:21:40] josé maria macedo: oh
[02/08/2011 19:21:43] josé maria macedo: a friend told me
[02/08/2011 19:21:49] josé maria macedo: so i thought it was hu
[02/08/2011 19:22:42] Matthew Moss: huh?
[02/08/2011 19:22:49] josé maria macedo: hes playing vs charlie1sheen
[02/08/2011 19:22:52] josé maria macedo: is he any good?
[02/08/2011 19:23:03] Matthew Moss: umm
[02/08/2011 19:23:06] Matthew Moss: think he must be
[02/08/2011 19:23:16] Matthew Moss: dont know him well enough but charlie is always playing 25/50+
[02/08/2011 19:23:18] Matthew Moss: and not lower
[02/08/2011 19:23:28] josé maria macedo: he sat out vs sauron
[02/08/2011 19:23:30] josé maria macedo: wtf
[02/08/2011 19:23:37] Matthew Moss: hmm
[02/08/2011 19:23:38] Matthew Moss: odd
[02/08/2011 19:23:41] josé maria macedo: i feel like theyknow something i dont
[02/08/2011 19:23:51] josé maria macedo: you wanna sweat me vs him?
[02/08/2011 19:23:52] josé maria macedo: or take action?
[02/08/2011 19:23:56] Matthew Moss: might just be bumhunting
[02/08/2011 19:23:59] Matthew Moss: yeah sure
[02/08/2011 19:24:03] josé maria macedo: hm
[02/08/2011 19:24:10] josé maria macedo: idk if im in the mood to play today though
[02/08/2011 19:24:21] josé maria macedo: played a really bad sess yesterday night
[02/08/2011 19:24:42] Matthew Moss: uhh
[02/08/2011 19:24:44] Matthew Moss: i might play him
[02/08/2011 19:24:50] josé maria macedo: ask for 10 20 imo
[02/08/2011 19:24:56] Matthew Moss: yeah gonna
[02/08/2011 19:25:48] josé maria macedo: want me to take action/sweat?
[02/08/2011 19:25:53] josé maria macedo: i can sweat w/o taking action too

12:36:29 AM] josé maria macedo: hey man
[12:36:37 AM] josé maria macedo: you here?
[12:36:43 AM] Nick Frame: ye
[12:36:58 AM] josé maria macedo: got a confession and need to sell action too
[12:37:06 AM] josé maria macedo: so basically
[12:37:13 AM] josé maria macedo: theres a really rich kid in the private school i go to
[12:37:19 AM] josé maria macedo: like his dad owns a bank
[12:37:21 AM] josé maria macedo: and he heard my story
[12:37:25 AM] josé maria macedo: and got into poker
[12:37:33 AM] josé maria macedo: hes emancipated and has a ton of $
[12:37:35 AM] josé maria macedo: but
[12:37:36 AM] josé maria macedo: hes a good friend
[12:37:47 AM] josé maria macedo: hes lost like 35k online
[12:37:53 AM] josé maria macedo: and he always insists in playing me
[12:38:01 AM] josé maria macedo: a) is it poor ethics if i play him?
[12:38:12 AM] josé maria macedo: b) should i keep funding his online?
[12:38:18 AM] josé maria macedo: he pays by bank transfer i get him accounts with $ + vig
[12:38:32 AM] Nick Frame: nah i dont see the problem
[12:38:36 AM] josé maria macedo: now he wants to play me at 50/100
[12:38:58 AM] josé maria macedo: hes also the guy that tried to superuse me
[12:39:22 AM] josé maria macedo: seriously?
[12:39:40 AM] josé maria macedo: you dont?
[12:39:41 AM] Nick Frame: hmmm
[12:39:44 AM] Nick Frame: weird
[12:39:56 AM] josé maria macedo: he is dollarman btw
[12:40:06 AM] josé maria macedo: dollarman223 on merge
[12:40:31 AM] josé maria macedo: now, he has 40k on his account, and he wants to play me at 50/100
[12:40:43 AM] josé maria macedo: what do i do?
[12:41:13 AM] Nick Frame: idk
[12:41:17 AM] Nick Frame: did u know he was dollarman?
[12:41:18 AM] Nick Frame: like
[12:41:35 AM] josé maria macedo: hm?
[12:41:41 AM] josé maria macedo: not when you first played him
[12:41:57 AM] josé maria macedo: would appreciate you dont tell ppl
[12:42:09 AM] josé maria macedo: can we call?
[12:42:15 AM] josé maria macedo: easier to talk that way
[12:43:00 AM] Nick Frame: i cant talk atm
[12:43:02 AM] *** Missed call from josé maria macedo. ***
[12:43:05 AM] josé maria macedo: ah ok
[12:43:07 AM] Nick Frame: bunch of ppl over here wathcing tv
[12:43:16 AM] josé maria macedo: should i play him?
[12:43:19 AM] josé maria macedo: cuz he will just sit bigguy or someone
[12:43:45 AM] Nick Frame: i dont understand
[12:43:51 AM] Nick Frame: hwo u didnt know your friend was dollarman
[12:43:55 AM] Nick Frame: u sent him the money...
[12:44:09 AM] josé maria macedo: its easier to explain by call
[12:44:29 AM] josé maria macedo: bah
[12:44:46 AM] josé maria macedo: just felt bad
[12:44:56 AM] josé maria macedo: im sorry about it
[12:45:17 AM] Nick Frame: i really dont know what to say
[12:45:26 AM] Nick Frame: and what i should or shouldnt say right now
[12:45:31 AM] josé maria macedo: what do you mean?
[12:45:37 AM] josé maria macedo: can we call? its easier
[12:45:48 AM] Nick Frame: id rather not right now.
[12:45:51 AM] josé maria macedo: ok
[12:45:58 AM] josé maria macedo: again, im sorry
[12:46:18 AM] josé maria macedo: dont really know what else to say
[12:46:23 AM] josé maria macedo: i didnt think he'd play you more
[12:46:31 AM] josé maria macedo: and i didnt think it would matter that he was my friend
[12:46:34 AM] josé maria macedo: but obv it does
[12:46:39 AM] josé maria macedo: so i told you now
[12:46:43 AM] josé maria macedo: i hope its better than nothing
[12:46:49 AM] josé maria macedo: ill be happy to refund what you lost to him
[12:46:55 AM] josé maria macedo: if you did lose anything to him
[12:47:03 AM] josé maria macedo: and to give x hours of free coaching or w/e you want
[12:47:12 AM] Nick Frame: tell me the truth Jose
[12:47:16 AM] Nick Frame: what really happened
[12:47:19 AM] Nick Frame: and went on
[12:47:22 AM] josé maria macedo: thats exactly what happened
[12:47:55 AM] josé maria macedo: i promise you
[12:48:00 AM] Nick Frame: so u didnt know ur friend was dollarman, yet u sent him money, and yet u watched me play him and u didnt know. and some kid whose soem random degen was owning the **** out of me post flop?
[12:48:10 AM] Nick Frame: maybe ill give u some time to think about this
[12:48:11 AM] josé maria macedo: yes
[12:48:22 AM] josé maria macedo: hes not some random degen
[12:48:31 AM] josé maria macedo: weve talked poker etc
[12:48:32 AM] josé maria macedo: he wasnt owning anyone
[12:48:37 AM] josé maria macedo: he lost over 28k on his time on merge
[12:48:50 AM] josé maria macedo: believe me
[12:48:51 AM] Nick Frame: so he goes to your school?
[12:48:54 AM] josé maria macedo: yes
[12:48:58 AM] josé maria macedo: not anymore
[12:48:58 AM] josé maria macedo: cuz im not in school
[12:49:04 AM] Nick Frame: wheres he from?
[12:49:10 AM] josé maria macedo: not sure
[12:49:12 AM] Nick Frame: very easy question
[12:49:16 AM] josé maria macedo: his parents are form weird places
[12:49:20 AM] josé maria macedo: spain and france i think
[12:49:28 AM] josé maria macedo: i can get him on skype with you etc
[12:49:29 AM] Nick Frame: where was your school
[12:49:34 AM] josé maria macedo: carcavelos
[12:49:37 AM] josé maria macedo: stjulians school
[12:50:15 AM] josé maria macedo: theres no reason why i would tell you otherwise
[12:50:20 AM] josé maria macedo: i just feel really bad
[12:50:28 AM] Nick Frame: really, no other reason huh?
[12:50:33 AM] josé maria macedo: what do you mean?
[12:50:39 AM] josé maria macedo: you think i was superusing you?
[12:51:04 AM] Nick Frame: you better be very careful what you say to me right now.
[12:51:10 AM] Nick Frame: and you better be honest
[12:51:15 AM] josé maria macedo: i will be 100% honest
[12:51:18 AM] josé maria macedo: i promise you
[12:51:32 AM] josé maria macedo: jungleman and dogishead are coming to live with me, they can vouch for everything
[12:52:09 AM] josé maria macedo: im sorry about this once again
[12:52:49 AM] josé maria macedo: i only told you now because he superused me and when you asked who it was i felt bad
[12:52:56 AM] josé maria macedo: that i couldnt tell you because it would seem so shady
[12:53:00 AM] Nick Frame: he superused u?
[12:53:05 AM] josé maria macedo: yea
[12:53:07 AM] Nick Frame: how
[12:53:14 AM] josé maria macedo: on another site
[12:53:20 AM] Nick Frame: what site?
[12:53:22 AM] josé maria macedo: ipoker
[12:53:25 AM] Nick Frame: sn?
[12:53:32 AM] Nick Frame: easy question
[12:53:34 AM] josé maria macedo: mine?
[12:53:36 AM] Nick Frame: his
[12:53:36 AM] josé maria macedo: or his?
[12:53:48 AM] josé maria macedo: milko39
[12:53:52 AM] josé maria macedo: or something like that
[12:53:55 AM] josé maria macedo: i can check my HEM
[12:53:58 AM] josé maria macedo: on my other computer
[12:54:20 AM] Nick Frame: listen
[12:54:21 AM] josé maria macedo: can you just believe me?
[12:54:28 AM] josé maria macedo: seriously
[12:54:36 AM] Nick Frame: listen
[12:54:38 AM] josé maria macedo: thers no reason why id tell you
[12:54:43 AM] josé maria macedo: im so ****ing sorry
[12:54:51 AM] josé maria macedo: we became friends and i kept lying
[12:54:51 AM] Nick Frame: oh there cetainly ****ing is
[12:54:56 AM] josé maria macedo: what?
[12:54:58 AM] Nick Frame: a reason why ud tell me
[12:55:01 AM] Nick Frame: im not getting into that
[12:55:02 AM] josé maria macedo: why?
[12:55:04 AM] josé maria macedo: ok
[12:55:07 AM] Nick Frame: but i want u to explain something
[12:55:10 AM] josé maria macedo: ok
[12:55:16 AM] Nick Frame: how did u not know he was dollarman?
[12:55:32 AM] josé maria macedo: i did know
[12:55:36 AM] josé maria macedo: i just didnt wanna say
[12:55:50 AM] josé maria macedo: i thought youd jump to conclusions
[12:55:56 AM] josé maria macedo: which arent true
[12:56:04 AM] Nick Frame: whose sauro1989 Jose
[12:56:09 AM] Nick Frame: sauron1989*
[12:56:15 AM] josé maria macedo: i dont know
[12:56:19 AM] josé maria macedo: ive lost money to him
[12:56:22 AM] josé maria macedo: jeez
[12:56:44 AM] Nick Frame: man this is very bad
[12:56:50 AM] josé maria macedo: why?
[12:56:58 AM] josé maria macedo: can you answer the phone call?
[12:57:05 AM] Nick Frame: no id rather not
[12:57:07 AM] *** Call from josé maria macedo declined. ***
[12:57:12 AM] josé maria macedo: can we keep this amongst us?
[12:57:15 AM] josé maria macedo: i told you in private
[12:57:19 AM] josé maria macedo: i will answer all your questions
[12:57:24 AM] Nick Frame: it doesnt matter Jose
[12:57:43 AM] josé maria macedo: i promise you this is the truth
[12:57:50 AM] josé maria macedo: believe me nick
[12:58:14 AM] josé maria macedo: please dont jump to conclusions
[12:58:58 AM] josé maria macedo: can you tell me what you think happened?
[12:59:05 AM] josé maria macedo: and why you think it?
[12:59:11 AM] Nick Frame: im not sure its wise for me to do so.
[12:59:14 AM] josé maria macedo: why?
[12:59:26 AM] josé maria macedo: what are you gonna do then?
[12:59:39 AM] josé maria macedo: nick...
[12:59:46 AM] Nick Frame: i cant make that decision myself
[12:59:50 AM] josé maria macedo: ****ing hell i told you this in confidence
[12:59:57 AM] Nick Frame: no Jose
[1:00:01 AM] josé maria macedo: theres nothing bad about it
[1:00:06 AM] Nick Frame: weve been investigating this
[1:00:08 AM] Nick Frame: for about a week now
[1:00:12 AM] josé maria macedo: what?
[1:00:20 AM] Nick Frame: we knew Jose
[1:00:26 AM] josé maria macedo: its not me
[1:00:30 AM] josé maria macedo: wtf...
[1:00:38 AM] josé maria macedo: dollarman isnt me
[1:00:43 AM] josé maria macedo: neither is sauron
[1:00:43 AM] josé maria macedo: jesus
[1:00:53 AM] Nick Frame: is sauron your friend?
[1:00:58 AM] josé maria macedo: no hes not
[1:01:00 AM] josé maria macedo: i dont know sauron
[1:01:47 AM] josé maria macedo: please tell me what you think
[1:01:54 AM] Nick Frame: i really like/d u Jose. and I obv had all the trust in the world in u. but we will do what we feel is right.
[1:02:03 AM] Nick Frame: but i would advise u to be as honest as u can right ow
[1:02:04 AM] Nick Frame: now
[1:02:15 AM] josé maria macedo: i am being
[1:02:18 AM] josé maria macedo: as honest as i can
[1:02:31 AM] josé maria macedo: dollarman is my friend
[1:02:41 AM] josé maria macedo: please dont screw me over for this
[1:02:44 AM] josé maria macedo: it was obv a mistake not to tell you
[1:02:50 AM] josé maria macedo: but dont screw me for this
[1:02:53 AM] josé maria macedo: i would never superuse anyone
[1:03:02 AM] josé maria macedo: ive been ****ed so many times in poker
[1:03:10 AM] Nick Frame: yeah..
[1:03:19 AM] josé maria macedo: i would not **** you over like this
[1:03:22 AM] josé maria macedo: why would i?
[1:03:27 AM] josé maria macedo: whats the incentive for me?
[1:03:27 AM] Nick Frame: i have no clue.
[1:03:35 AM] josé maria macedo: i have everything to lose and nothing to gain
[1:03:36 AM] Nick Frame: thats been our big question Jose
[1:03:38 AM] josé maria macedo: at 1knl?
[1:03:47 AM] josé maria macedo: why the **** would i do this?
[1:03:59 AM] josé maria macedo: and why would i play him?
[1:04:33 AM] josé maria macedo: werent you up on dollarman overall?
[1:04:37 AM] Nick Frame: no.
[1:04:39 AM] josé maria macedo: how the **** would i superuse you?
[1:04:43 AM] josé maria macedo: and lose
[1:04:54 AM] Nick Frame: its actually quite simple
[1:05:00 AM] Nick Frame: if the cards didnt land right
[1:05:09 AM] Nick Frame: im not going to get into it
[1:05:16 AM] josé maria macedo: but he made so many bad plays
[1:05:24 AM] josé maria macedo: can you please wait
[1:05:29 AM] josé maria macedo: until you know all the facts
[1:05:34 AM] Nick Frame: listen
[1:05:35 AM] josé maria macedo: i will bring my friend here
[1:05:42 AM] Nick Frame: Just listen for a second
[1:05:43 AM] josé maria macedo: i will fly over with him if need be
[1:05:46 AM] Nick Frame: i will be honest with u
[1:05:48 AM] josé maria macedo: he will confess everything
[1:05:53 AM] Nick Frame: we have
[1:05:55 AM] josé maria macedo: thats it
[1:05:56 AM] Nick Frame: all of us
[1:05:58 AM] Nick Frame: just listen
[1:06:01 AM] josé maria macedo: i will fly over with my friend
[1:06:05 AM] Nick Frame: just listen
[1:06:21 AM] Nick Frame: we have suspected for about the past week that u are in fact sauron and dollarman
[1:06:27 AM] Nick Frame: and weve been trying to find the facts
[1:06:36 AM] Nick Frame: and weve been patient
[1:06:41 AM] Nick Frame: and things dont make since
[1:06:47 AM] Nick Frame: and we obv have realllllly like u Jose
[1:06:57 AM] josé maria macedo: so please believe me
[1:06:59 AM] josé maria macedo: and bear with me
[1:07:00 AM] Nick Frame: and were not going to make some ridiculous 2p2 post
[1:07:16 AM] Nick Frame: but now this is out in the open
[1:07:17 AM] josé maria macedo: can i fly over to vancouver with my friend?
[1:07:24 AM] Nick Frame: then i suppose its time to chat about this with every1
[1:07:40 AM] Nick Frame: or wait until what merge says about this.
[1:07:44 AM] josé maria macedo: i will fly over to vancouver with my friend
[1:08:13 AM] josé maria macedo: the only thing i did was send him money, all his play was his own
[1:08:13 AM] Nick Frame: i dont really know what to say right now.
[1:08:28 AM] josé maria macedo: i will do whatever it takes to prove myself
[1:08:37 AM] josé maria macedo: ive posted so much strat, you know me
[1:08:43 AM] josé maria macedo: you know i wouldnt do something like this
[1:08:45 AM] josé maria macedo: you must know
[1:08:52 AM] Nick Frame: yes dude. thats whats thrown us off. but i cant ignore my gut.
[1:08:59 AM] Nick Frame: same with others.
[1:09:35 AM] Nick Frame: now is the time to tell me
[1:09:41 AM] Nick Frame: do u know who sauron is
[1:09:46 AM] josé maria macedo: i will tell you
[1:09:52 AM] Nick Frame: because we have some pretty big evidence there
[1:10:00 AM] Nick Frame: so tell me now.
[1:10:34 AM] Nick Frame: Jose?
[1:10:39 AM] josé maria macedo: yea
[1:11:21 AM] josé maria macedo: its my friend, and so is angel8000
[1:11:26 AM] josé maria macedo: let me get all his acc names
[1:12:10 AM] Nick Frame: ok.
[1:12:16 AM] Nick Frame: thanks for your honesty.
[1:12:44 AM] josé maria macedo: he is also soengazi484 on prima

[some details removed to protect privacy of jose's friend -NoahSD]

[1:13:19 AM] josé maria macedo: and im sure will fly out wherever necessary to prove it
[1:13:36 AM] josé maria macedo: he has lost im not sure how much overall in poker
[1:13:47 AM] josé maria macedo: ive coached him a lot
[1:14:01 AM] josé maria macedo: but he just gets really emotional and plays on feel
[1:14:11 AM] josé maria macedo: hes one of my best friends
[1:14:25 AM] josé maria macedo: he has another ipoker acc
[1:14:32 AM] josé maria macedo: im not sure what it is
[1:14:46 AM] josé maria macedo: hes up like 21k on me overall on ipoker
[1:14:53 AM] Nick Frame: ok
[1:15:42 AM] josé maria macedo: i dont think hes ever played ongame
[1:15:54 AM] josé maria macedo: though its possible he has and someone else did it idk, unlikely

[Some details removed -NoahSD]

[1:17:19 AM] Nick Frame: will u tell me why u wanted us to constantly play these people?
[1:17:20 AM] josé maria macedo: he feels really bad hes lost his fathers $ and is always determined to get it back but is just too emotional
[1:17:42 AM] josé maria macedo: also
[1:17:46 AM] josé maria macedo: i was on skype to you wasnt i?
[1:17:52 AM] josé maria macedo: while you played him?
[1:17:56 AM] Nick Frame: u understand i, oscar, and matt felt completely owned right? we dont suck at poker
[1:18:11 AM] Nick Frame: u were sweating me thru teamviewer
[1:18:16 AM] josé maria macedo: oh
[1:18:39 AM] Nick Frame: [1:17 AM] Nick Frame:

<<< will u tell me why u wanted us to constantly play these people?[1:17 AM] Nick Frame:

<<< u understand i, oscar, and matt felt completely owned right? we dont suck at poker
[1:18:41 AM] josé maria macedo: you felt owned?
[1:18:51 AM] josé maria macedo: i didnt
[1:19:07 AM] josé maria macedo: i mean he played bigguy he played playerplayer
[1:19:22 AM] josé maria macedo: he just rly wanted action from u
[1:19:29 AM] josé maria macedo: cuz he thought he had an edge
[1:20:17 AM] josé maria macedo: i didnt want you to play him, i just wanted to sweat
[1:20:39 AM] josé maria macedo: i did like watching you play him though it was more exciting
[1:20:47 AM] josé maria macedo: i have no reason to superuse you
[1:20:55 AM] josé maria macedo: seriously...
[1:21:06 AM] Nick Frame: he didnt play biguy or any1 other than jay or me or you, according to PTR.
[1:21:08 AM] josé maria macedo: i lost 200k in july
[1:21:13 AM] josé maria macedo: he did tho
[1:21:22 AM] josé maria macedo: but i can provide bank transcripts and stuff of june
[1:21:29 AM] josé maria macedo: it also says he played 41 hands with me
[1:21:31 AM] josé maria macedo: which is bs
[1:21:35 AM] josé maria macedo: we played much more
[1:21:54 AM] josé maria macedo: and you two played more than 600?
[1:22:08 AM] josé maria macedo: if i was gonna superuse, i certainly wouldnt do it like this...
[1:22:46 AM] josé maria macedo: i just have no reason to
[1:23:09 AM] josé maria macedo: can i just call him and fly him over wherever you want?
[1:23:13 AM] josé maria macedo: you can interrogate him
[1:23:45 AM] Nick Frame: im not sure what the best plan is
[1:24:02 AM] josé maria macedo: please dont make this public as is
[1:24:07 AM] josé maria macedo: its really misinterpreted
[1:24:28 AM] josé maria macedo: i know you guys like me and you know im telling the truth
[1:24:28 AM] Nick Frame: oh, ull have your chance.
[1:24:37 AM] Nick Frame: actually im not sure
[1:24:43 AM] Nick Frame: and yes i did like u a lot
[1:24:47 AM] Nick Frame: and may still
[1:24:52 AM] Nick Frame: def less than i did
[1:24:55 AM] Nick Frame: but we'll see
[1:25:00 AM] josé maria macedo: yea ofc, i lied to you
[1:25:06 AM] Nick Frame: its obv very shady thing to do regardless
[1:25:14 AM] Nick Frame: and very dumb too
[1:25:15 AM] josé maria macedo: yea i mean it is
[1:25:24 AM] josé maria macedo: i do dumb **** all the time
[1:25:30 AM] josé maria macedo: but i wouldnt scam anyone
[1:25:43 AM] josé maria macedo: i dont give a **** about money in poker
[1:25:56 AM] josé maria macedo: i need 2k a month to live
[1:26:23 AM] josé maria macedo: believe that im telling the truth
[1:26:28 AM] josé maria macedo: oh one last shady thing
[1:26:39 AM] josé maria macedo: merge wont find this out because he used a mobile pen so no IP
[1:26:43 AM] josé maria macedo: but he played at my house sometimes
[1:26:49 AM] josé maria macedo: and you only have my word to go on it
[1:26:54 AM] josé maria macedo: but nothing shady happened
[1:27:02 AM] Nick Frame: Jose,
[1:27:21 AM] josé maria macedo: he lost 11k on prima at my house
[1:27:24 AM] Nick Frame: uve lied to me at least 3 times in this discussion so far.
[1:27:26 AM] josé maria macedo: vs a reg whos name i can easily find out from him
[1:27:30 AM] Nick Frame: why should i believe anything youre saying?
[1:27:42 AM] josé maria macedo: i dont know
[1:27:47 AM] josé maria macedo: because its true
[1:27:50 AM] josé maria macedo: because you know me
[1:27:57 AM] josé maria macedo: from the months we've spoken on strat
[1:27:58 AM] josé maria macedo: and the stuff ive done
[1:28:04 AM] josé maria macedo: and the person ive shown to be
[1:28:08 AM] josé maria macedo: that i dont do **** like this
[1:28:21 AM] josé maria macedo: that i would never scam anyone, much less you
[1:28:37 AM] Nick Frame: i was pretty bummed when i found out about this
[1:28:37 AM] Nick Frame: tbh
[1:28:42 AM] josé maria macedo: but thats all meaningless
[1:28:51 AM] josé maria macedo: what matters is my friend will confirm everything
[1:29:28 AM] Nick Frame: your friends?
[1:29:32 AM] Nick Frame: not your friend
[1:29:35 AM] josé maria macedo: hm?
[1:29:36 AM] Nick Frame: friends
[1:29:39 AM] Nick Frame: with an s
[1:29:41 AM] josé maria macedo: why?
[1:29:46 AM] Nick Frame: was dollarman not someone else?
[1:29:58 AM] Nick Frame: u said dollarman and sauron are different people
[1:30:01 AM] josé maria macedo: no
[1:30:05 AM] josé maria macedo: same person
[1:30:27 AM] josé maria macedo: the first time you asked who sauron was i said i didnt know
[1:30:32 AM] josé maria macedo: the 2nd time you asked i said who it was
[1:30:37 AM] josé maria macedo: who is the same person as dollarman
[1:31:05 AM] josé maria macedo: you will notice they play the same solid style to begin with
[1:31:10 AM] josé maria macedo: and then get emotional and play random
[1:31:27 AM] Nick Frame: oh ok i guess i misread.
[1:31:40 AM] Nick Frame: i thot sauron was diff friend than dollar, my mistake
[1:31:45 AM] josé maria macedo: its ok
[1:32:20 AM] Nick Frame: why do u guys sign on and off at the same times?
[1:32:28 AM] josé maria macedo: we dont
[1:32:31 AM] Nick Frame: oh yes u do.
[1:32:32 AM] josé maria macedo: that cant be true
[1:32:35 AM] Nick Frame: yes it is.
[1:32:46 AM] Nick Frame: weve been watching
[1:33:01 AM] josé maria macedo: i mean sometimes hes at my house
[1:33:03 AM] josé maria macedo: but certainly not always
[1:33:13 AM] josé maria macedo: its impossible that its always
[1:33:16 AM] josé maria macedo: that would be too coincidental
[1:33:21 AM] josé maria macedo: and his sleep pattern is different from mine
[1:33:35 AM] Nick Frame: its quite often
[1:33:39 AM] Nick Frame: shockingly often
[1:33:39 AM] Nick Frame: tbh
[1:33:50 AM] Nick Frame: whens the last time he was at your house?
[1:33:51 AM] josé maria macedo: i think thats not true
[1:33:54 AM] josé maria macedo: yesterday
[1:34:12 AM] Nick Frame: Jose, cmon dude. weve known about this for a week now. weve been watching!
[1:34:27 AM] josé maria macedo: we played yesterday
[1:34:42 AM] Nick Frame: so he played matt yesterday correct?
[1:34:50 AM] josé maria macedo: umm
[1:34:53 AM] josé maria macedo: yeah
[1:35:29 AM] josé maria macedo: i didnt really watch their match
[1:35:33 AM] josé maria macedo: i think i was on teamviewer for a while
[1:35:38 AM] josé maria macedo: but then it stopped working
[1:35:46 AM] Nick Frame: yeah, i know
[1:35:47 AM] josé maria macedo: i know he made some awful play with k high and sucked out
[1:36:30 AM] josé maria macedo: i was busy at the time
[1:36:53 AM] josé maria macedo: i didnt really care that i couldnt sweat him
[1:37:10 AM] josé maria macedo: but w/e
[1:37:26 AM] Nick Frame: you understand our position right?
[1:37:30 AM] josé maria macedo: ofc
[1:37:32 AM] Nick Frame: i mean you understand how this looks to us
[1:37:35 AM] josé maria macedo: yeah
[1:37:41 AM] josé maria macedo: but honestly
[1:37:52 AM] josé maria macedo: i hope that myself in your position i would be able to trust my judgment of the person
[1:37:58 AM] josé maria macedo: rather than what things appear to be
[1:38:08 AM] josé maria macedo: i dont know if i would tho
[1:38:21 AM] josé maria macedo: theres no reason why id keep playing him again and again
[1:38:26 AM] josé maria macedo: but you know that
[1:38:31 AM] josé maria macedo: and it couldve just been to keep the cover up
[1:38:39 AM] josé maria macedo: but if id cared about keeping the cover up
[1:38:46 AM] josé maria macedo: i wouldve covered it up better than this lol
[1:39:06 AM] Nick Frame: i wont comment on those things.
[1:39:12 AM] josé maria macedo: theres no reason why he'd lose money against a ton of ppl that were sweated
[1:39:16 AM] josé maria macedo: im not sure if he lost vs you
[1:39:26 AM] josé maria macedo: i think he won vs matt?
[1:39:30 AM] josé maria macedo: a bit?
[1:39:37 AM] Nick Frame: no he absolutely did not
[1:40:11 AM] josé maria macedo: and he lost vs me too
[1:40:13 AM] josé maria macedo: mostly
[1:40:19 AM] Nick Frame: none of that matters
[1:40:21 AM] josé maria macedo: ok
[1:40:24 AM] Nick Frame: realistically
[1:40:49 AM] josé maria macedo: yes?
[1:40:58 AM] josé maria macedo: i mean, it looks so bad
[1:41:02 AM] josé maria macedo: but you need to give me a chance to bring my friend
[1:41:07 AM] josé maria macedo: and explain things
[1:41:17 AM] Nick Frame: is your friend there now?
[1:41:19 AM] josé maria macedo: you can test his poker knowledge
[1:41:20 AM] josé maria macedo: no
[1:41:32 AM] Nick Frame: we are quite curious about some hands mr. dollarman played
[1:41:47 AM] josé maria macedo: ok
[1:41:56 AM] josé maria macedo: ill give you his skype and call him tomorrow
[1:41:59 AM] josé maria macedo: ?
[1:42:18 AM] Nick Frame: no
[1:42:22 AM] Nick Frame: i need to talk to every1 first
[1:42:30 AM] josé maria macedo: ok
[1:42:41 AM] josé maria macedo: ask me anything you want about my friend
[1:42:49 AM] josé maria macedo: and quiz his poker knowledge
[1:42:53 AM] josé maria macedo: w/e you want
are you going to go public with this?
[1:43:58 AM] josé maria macedo: because everything about me is online and it will be associated to this to the end of time
[1:44:13 AM] josé maria macedo: i will be seen as this
[1:44:27 AM] josé maria macedo: you need to give me a chance to explain
[1:45:07 AM] josé maria macedo: nick
[1:45:22 AM] josé maria macedo: please believe me and everything ive done, my video, all the stuff ive said, everything you know about me
[1:45:31 AM] josé maria macedo: please dont screw me over like this
[1:46:04 AM] josé maria macedo: if you want, i will repay whatever you guys lost to sauron, if you lost anything net
[1:46:13 AM] Nick Frame: well i know off the top of my head
[1:46:16 AM] josé maria macedo: i will send it by moneybookers
[1:46:21 AM] Nick Frame: oscar lost 10 and matt lost like 15
[1:46:22 AM] josé maria macedo: or by bank wire
[1:46:28 AM] josé maria macedo: ok
[1:46:33 AM] Nick Frame: but
[1:46:41 AM] Nick Frame: u will certainly have your chance to explain
[1:46:43 AM] josé maria macedo: i offered to take 100% of oscar's action
[1:46:54 AM] josé maria macedo: are you planning on ever going public?
[1:47:03 AM] Nick Frame: i cant answer that
[1:47:08 AM] josé maria macedo: please nick
[1:47:10 AM] josé maria macedo: dont do this
[1:47:26 AM] Nick Frame: you'll have your chance!
[1:47:33 AM] josé maria macedo: i dont see why i should but i will repay every cent back to matt and oscar
[1:47:38 AM] Nick Frame: i am not making that decisons. its the group's decision.
[1:48:26 AM] Nick Frame: you can trust us, to make the right, fair decision.
[1:48:58 AM] josé maria macedo: ok
[1:49:10 AM] josé maria macedo: what explanations do you want?
[1:50:02 AM] Nick Frame: i want to know why u wanted us to play him. u brought up playing sauron 5 times to me, out of the blue.
[1:50:03 AM] Nick Frame: why?
[1:50:12 AM] Nick Frame: why'd u want Jay to play dollar so badly?
[1:50:23 AM] Nick Frame: why'd u always as Matt to play sauron?
[1:50:37 AM] josé maria macedo: he wanted to play you a lot
[1:50:57 AM] josé maria macedo: he loved jay
[1:51:14 AM] josé maria macedo: cuz of all the action
[1:51:31 AM] josé maria macedo: i mean no one gave him action
[1:51:36 AM] josé maria macedo: he sat every1
[1:51:48 AM] josé maria macedo: he sat on the lobby alone for hours
[1:52:06 AM] Nick Frame: why does he play 6m on ipoker
[1:52:08 AM] Nick Frame: and not overbet?
[1:52:27 AM] josé maria macedo: no 6m runs on overbet at 10 20 i guess
[1:52:35 AM] josé maria macedo: he doesnt like 5 10
[1:54:17 AM] josé maria macedo: and idk i liked seeing him play ppl
[1:54:38 AM] josé maria macedo: i dunno why
[1:55:11 AM] josé maria macedo: i wanted to sweat you in general though
[1:55:13 AM] josé maria macedo: not just for that
[1:55:29 AM] Nick Frame: why did u want to contact geeforce1 today? and i noticed sauron and geeforce played today on ipoker for a few hands
[1:55:45 AM] josé maria macedo: they played since 2 weeks ago
[1:56:04 AM] Nick Frame: ok w/e, why did u want to talk to him?
[1:56:14 AM] josé maria macedo: sauron wanted to HU him at 50/100 with a show every hand rule
[1:56:32 AM] josé maria macedo: or 25 50 or something
[1:56:37 AM] josé maria macedo: he thought gee had an edge on him
[1:57:03 AM] josé maria macedo: but with that rule he wouldnt
[1:57:20 AM] josé maria macedo: and hes the only one who gives him action
[1:57:22 AM] Nick Frame: we will most likely need every hand dollarman and sauron played against every1 from the group
[1:57:33 AM] josé maria macedo: ok
[1:57:43 AM] Nick Frame: i find a valuebet dollar missed
[1:57:46 AM] Nick Frame: quite suspicious
[1:58:03 AM] josé maria macedo: but there are also hands that prove the contrary
[1:58:07 AM] Nick Frame: no
[1:58:09 AM] Nick Frame: they dont
[1:58:10 AM] Nick Frame: see
[1:58:15 AM] josé maria macedo: ok
[1:58:15 AM] Nick Frame: u can play
[1:58:18 AM] Nick Frame: any hand u want to
[1:58:21 AM] Nick Frame: in a way to let me win
[1:58:34 AM] Nick Frame: however, u cannot play a hand weirdly to make yourself win
[1:58:34 AM] josé maria macedo: then how can i win this argument?
[1:58:36 AM] Nick Frame: if that makes sense
[1:58:46 AM] Nick Frame: like u can miss the easiest vbet ever on the river
[1:58:48 AM] Nick Frame: cant*
[1:58:55 AM] Nick Frame: obv
[1:58:58 AM] Nick Frame: if u have top 2
[1:59:00 AM] Nick Frame: in 3 pot
[1:59:03 AM] Nick Frame: and i got set
[1:59:08 AM] Nick Frame: u HAVE to go broke
[1:59:10 AM] Nick Frame: get it?
[1:59:12 AM] josé maria macedo: yeah
[1:59:15 AM] Nick Frame: right on
[1:59:23 AM] josé maria macedo: but there must be some stuff that proves the contrary?
[1:59:28 AM] josé maria macedo: bluffs into good hands or something
[1:59:30 AM] Nick Frame: well, i have no idea.
[1:59:35 AM] josé maria macedo: or other stuff
[1:59:50 AM] Nick Frame: i mean if its there, then its there, and we'll have to see.
[2:00:12 AM] josé maria macedo: whats your plan if you decide that i was superusing you?
[2:00:21 AM] josé maria macedo: go on 2p2?
[2:00:54 AM] josé maria macedo: my friend exists though
[2:00:55 AM] josé maria macedo: and im a good person
[2:00:59 AM] josé maria macedo: jesus
[2:01:05 AM] josé maria macedo: i cant believe this is happening
[2:01:15 AM] josé maria macedo: its not your fault im sorry
[2:01:22 AM] Nick Frame: look, i cant say anything about what we are going to do or not do. its not my call! its the groups call.
[2:01:46 AM] Nick Frame: and the group is asleep
[2:01:50 AM] Nick Frame: except Jay
[2:02:14 AM] josé maria macedo: ok
[2:02:21 AM] josé maria macedo: well
[2:02:25 AM] josé maria macedo: i will text my friend
[2:02:33 AM] josé maria macedo: tell him we might have to fly somewhere??
[2:03:01 AM] Nick Frame: possibly.
[2:03:03 AM] Nick Frame: but i dont know.
[2:03:07 AM] josé maria macedo: and
[2:03:34 AM] josé maria macedo: ive sweated jungleman dogishead etc
[2:03:51 AM] josé maria macedo: nothing ever happened
[2:04:23 AM] josé maria macedo: that doesnt mean anything though
[2:04:26 AM] Nick Frame: thats like saying, "well ive been to the store many times and havent stolen any. see there, u believe me now?"
[2:04:26 AM] josé maria macedo: im just tired ignore it
[2:04:29 AM] Nick Frame: yeah exactly
[2:04:41 AM] josé maria macedo: i will pay back everything
[2:04:53 AM] josé maria macedo: just please
[2:05:00 AM] josé maria macedo: dont go public with this stuff
[2:05:07 AM] Nick Frame: we will talk to u, dont worry
[2:05:10 AM] josé maria macedo: it will ruin my life, its so damn jaded atm
[2:05:25 AM] Nick Frame: yeah Jose
[2:05:26 AM] Nick Frame: like
[2:05:29 AM] Nick Frame: i have been basically
[2:05:31 AM] Nick Frame: positive
[2:05:36 AM] Nick Frame: soemthing very ****ign goofy was going on
[2:05:38 AM] Nick Frame: as was matt
[2:05:40 AM] josé maria macedo: yeah
[2:05:42 AM] Nick Frame: but we like u
[2:05:44 AM] Nick Frame: or did
[2:05:49 AM] josé maria macedo: you dont like me now?
[2:05:51 AM] Nick Frame: but we felt that this was so big
[2:05:53 AM] josé maria macedo: im the same ****ing person
[2:05:58 AM] Nick Frame: that we had to give it the respect
[2:05:59 AM] josé maria macedo: i just lied
[2:06:01 AM] Nick Frame: and compile evidence
[2:06:03 AM] josé maria macedo: im sorry
[2:06:11 AM] josé maria macedo: matt likes me?
[2:06:41 AM] Nick Frame: so....you will have your chance to explain everythign u want to explain
[2:06:42 AM] josé maria macedo: if you both like me
[2:06:46 AM] Nick Frame: and prove everything
[2:06:48 AM] josé maria macedo: lets settle this privately
[2:06:56 AM] josé maria macedo: thats all i ask
[2:07:07 AM] josé maria macedo: dont ruin my life, my name is out there my picture everything
[2:07:11 AM] Nick Frame: we will talk privately, thats all i can promise u
[2:07:24 AM] Nick Frame: its not up to me Jose
[2:07:27 AM] Nick Frame: it is partly
[2:07:34 AM] Nick Frame: but the group will make the decision.
[2:07:35 AM] josé maria macedo: cant you give me some sort of assurance?
[2:07:52 AM] Nick Frame: no.
[2:08:03 AM] Nick Frame: i dont know what to tell u
[2:08:19 AM] josé maria macedo: in my place, what would you have done differently?
[2:08:21 AM] Nick Frame: listen Jose, weve been on to this for a week now.
[2:08:23 AM] josé maria macedo: told me straight up it was your friend
[2:08:23 AM] josé maria macedo: right?
[2:09:21 AM] josé maria macedo: im never sweating anyone again
[2:09:35 AM] josé maria macedo: im sure of that
[2:09:41 AM] Nick Frame: thats a good idea
[2:09:54 AM] josé maria macedo: ive learnt my lesson from this ****
[2:10:32 AM] josé maria macedo: remember who i am
[2:10:35 AM] josé maria macedo: all the stuff ive posted
[2:10:39 AM] josé maria macedo: all the stuff you know ive done
[2:10:53 AM] josé maria macedo: and ask yourself if any of that is consistent with scamming ppl like this
[2:11:12 AM] josé maria macedo: all the hours of strat, all the help i gave to randoms
[2:11:31 AM] josé maria macedo: just ask yourself that
[2:11:32 AM] josé maria macedo: you and matt
[2:11:58 AM] Nick Frame: lol
[2:12:17 AM] Nick Frame: i will say
[2:12:21 AM] Nick Frame: that has a lot going for u
[2:12:29 AM] Nick Frame: we were all very shocked.
[2:12:35 AM] josé maria macedo: exactly
[2:12:38 AM] josé maria macedo: its unthinkable
[2:12:40 AM] Nick Frame: but i cant say it determines the outcome of this.
[2:12:44 AM] josé maria macedo: i have jungleman sauce etc
[2:12:49 AM] josé maria macedo: why would i choose to scam you?
[2:12:50 AM] Nick Frame: how can i say that determines the outcome?
[2:12:52 AM] josé maria macedo: no offense
[2:12:57 AM] josé maria macedo: but they play much higher stakes
[2:13:09 AM] josé maria macedo: i would make a lot more money scamming them
[2:13:28 AM] josé maria macedo: that doesnt matter either
[2:14:01 AM] josé maria macedo: you can ask my friend for his poker thought processes
[2:14:07 AM] josé maria macedo: youll see they are advanced when hes logic
[2:14:52 AM] josé maria macedo: i think ideal would be i fly out with him to london
[2:14:56 AM] Nick Frame: well regardless. u cannot deny what u did was at least VERY deceitful.
[2:15:00 AM] josé maria macedo: he brings his ID and dad death certificate or whatever
[2:15:01 AM] josé maria macedo: it was
[2:15:06 AM] josé maria macedo: and i feel so bad for it
[2:15:08 AM] Nick Frame: what does that have to do with anything
[2:15:15 AM] josé maria macedo: to prove that he is who i say he is
[2:15:28 AM] josé maria macedo: he can bring bank statements too
[2:15:59 AM] josé maria macedo: proving hes emancipated /etc what i said is true
[2:16:16 AM] Nick Frame: load TV right now.
[2:16:21 AM] Nick Frame: give me password
[2:16:40 AM] josé maria macedo: what why?
[2:16:50 AM] Nick Frame: i want to see some things.
[2:17:01 AM] Nick Frame: lets go cmon.
[2:17:18 AM] Nick Frame: ill tell u exactly what i want u to do in your comp
[2:17:21 AM] josé maria macedo: im opening it
[2:17:33 AM] josé maria macedo: can i change comp?
[2:17:34 AM] josé maria macedo: to poker comp?
[2:17:42 AM] josé maria macedo: theres poker on here
[2:17:44 AM] Nick Frame: lets look at this one.
[2:17:46 AM] josé maria macedo: but HEM is dead
[2:17:57 AM] Nick Frame: prove it
[2:18:01 AM] Nick Frame: load TV
[2:18:03 AM] josé maria macedo: i will
[2:18:42 AM] josé maria macedo: presentation?
[2:18:45 AM] josé maria macedo: or what?
[2:18:48 AM] Nick Frame: remote
[2:19:26 AM] Nick Frame: why is this taking so long
[2:19:48 AM] josé maria macedo: thingy is 139 932 243 and password is 2161
[2:19:57 AM] josé maria macedo: but like
[2:20:01 AM] josé maria macedo: he has played on my computer before
[2:20:11 AM] Nick Frame: go to hem
[2:20:16 AM] josé maria macedo: it doesnt work
[2:20:16 AM] josé maria macedo: i told you this
[2:20:21 AM] Nick Frame: right click it
[2:20:30 AM] josé maria macedo: itll open
[2:20:32 AM] josé maria macedo: youll see
[2:20:48 AM] Nick Frame: minimize that screen
[2:20:59 AM] josé maria macedo: which one?
[2:21:03 AM] Nick Frame: let me see your sektop
[2:21:09 AM] josé maria macedo: that just happens
[2:21:18 AM] Nick Frame: yeah u need the update
[2:21:37 AM] Nick Frame: ok. i wanted to verify this was other comp, bc i noticed hem working on your other comp
[2:21:49 AM] josé maria macedo: yea
[2:21:49 AM] josé maria macedo: but it doesnt now either
[2:21:59 AM] Nick Frame: can u update it?
[2:22:03 AM] josé maria macedo: sure
[2:22:14 AM] Nick Frame: but sauro/dollar has played on it?
[2:22:20 AM] Nick Frame: this one or your other comp?
[2:22:30 AM] josé maria macedo: both probably more this one
[2:22:42 AM] josé maria macedo: but not that much
[2:22:51 AM] josé maria macedo: maybe like 300 hands
[2:22:58 AM] Nick Frame: whered he play me form
[2:22:59 AM] Nick Frame: and jay
[2:23:00 AM] Nick Frame: which comp
[2:23:05 AM] josé maria macedo: his own
[2:23:12 AM] josé maria macedo: im 80%
[2:23:22 AM] josé maria macedo: i will text him now
[2:23:22 AM] josé maria macedo: to send me all hands
[2:23:33 AM] Nick Frame: ok
[2:23:40 AM] josé maria macedo: i will have them all by tomorrow
[2:23:54 AM] Nick Frame: i would really like to look at the hands on the hem if u have them
[2:24:08 AM] Nick Frame: u have to update hem
[2:24:15 AM] josé maria macedo: now?
[2:24:20 AM] josé maria macedo: you want me to do that now?
[2:24:31 AM] Nick Frame: meh, dono if it will import hands played since
[2:24:37 AM] Nick Frame: i guess u can close TV
[2:24:43 AM] josé maria macedo: ok
[2:24:56 AM] josé maria macedo: i can login to my own ipoker account?
[2:24:58 AM] josé maria macedo: well not my own
[2:25:15 AM] josé maria macedo: but the owner hardly plays
[2:25:20 AM] josé maria macedo: toshisan
[2:25:32 AM] Nick Frame: why dont u just have your own account
[2:25:40 AM] Nick Frame: i dont play on any1s account but my own...
[2:25:46 AM] josé maria macedo: my moneybookers is blocked
[2:25:54 AM] josé maria macedo: like reached its limits
[2:26:03 AM] josé maria macedo: so i couldnt deposit any more after i put however much on prima and lock
[2:26:09 AM] josé maria macedo: and toshisan is my account
[2:26:16 AM] josé maria macedo: its not in my name but its mine
[2:26:29 AM] josé maria macedo: its a very close friend's
[2:26:31 AM] josé maria macedo: dogishead
[2:26:35 AM] josé maria macedo: but dont tell anyone please
[2:26:49 AM] Nick Frame: can u hop on your other comp?
[2:27:02 AM] josé maria macedo: sure
[2:27:04 AM] josé maria macedo: but ive mostly been playing from this one
[2:27:10 AM] josé maria macedo: this is the one you saw me play on today
[2:27:23 AM] josé maria macedo: and this is the one oscar and etc sweated me on too
[2:27:50 AM] josé maria macedo: i was gonna have a poker and an everything else computer but it was too hastle
[2:27:51 AM] josé maria macedo: too much hastle
[2:27:56 AM] Nick Frame: no its not
[2:28:05 AM] josé maria macedo: no its not what?
[2:28:15 AM] Nick Frame: u played on a diff comp when i watched u today
[2:28:20 AM] josé maria macedo: i guarantee you it was this one
[2:28:25 AM] josé maria macedo: i can prove it however you like
[2:28:31 AM] josé maria macedo: i can open up 9 tables on lock
[2:28:34 AM] josé maria macedo: and you will see what its like
[2:28:38 AM] Nick Frame: ok
[2:28:38 AM] josé maria macedo: i didnt have HEM open
[2:28:38 AM] Nick Frame: no
[2:28:41 AM] Nick Frame: its not
[2:28:42 AM] josé maria macedo: ill do it
[2:28:44 AM] Nick Frame: no
[2:28:51 AM] Nick Frame: 1.) u had hem running
[2:28:54 AM] josé maria macedo: i didnt!
[2:28:56 AM] josé maria macedo: wtf!
[2:29:03 AM] Nick Frame: 2,) the desktop background was COMPLETELY different
[2:29:07 AM] josé maria macedo: i promise you 100% i did not have HEM running
[2:29:13 AM] Nick Frame: well
[2:29:14 AM] josé maria macedo: 100% this was the same computer
[2:29:15 AM] josé maria macedo: i promise you
[2:29:21 AM] josé maria macedo: i cna prove it however you want
[2:29:28 AM] josé maria macedo: same password and stuff
[2:29:31 AM] josé maria macedo: login to TV
[2:29:36 AM] Nick Frame: hmm, i could be mistaken about hem.
[2:29:52 AM] Nick Frame: hmmm
[2:29:55 AM] Nick Frame: i guess i cant say
[2:29:58 AM] Nick Frame: im not sure
[2:30:01 AM] josé maria macedo: lets open 9 tables
[2:30:02 AM] josé maria macedo: on lock
[2:30:04 AM] josé maria macedo: and youll see
[2:30:15 AM] Nick Frame: nah dont bother
[2:30:27 AM] josé maria macedo: i promise you it was the same one
[2:30:35 AM] Nick Frame: your computer just looked diff to me, i remmeber the desktop not being cluttered?
[2:30:45 AM] josé maria macedo: how could you see it
[2:30:49 AM] josé maria macedo: there were 9 tables
[2:30:53 AM] Nick Frame: i thot i could see the side of it?
[2:30:55 AM] josé maria macedo: its been like that for ages
[2:31:03 AM] josé maria macedo: why dont we just tile 9 tables now
[2:31:40 AM] josé maria macedo: login to TV
[2:31:42 AM] josé maria macedo: same stuff
[2:31:42 AM] Nick Frame: i want to see the graph showing u lost 200k
[2:31:43 AM] josé maria macedo: they are tiled
[2:31:49 AM] josé maria macedo: ok
[2:32:33 AM] josé maria macedo: 139 932 243
[2:32:34 AM] josé maria macedo: 2161
[2:33:08 AM] Nick Frame: ah ok
[2:33:10 AM] Nick Frame: i see
[2:33:14 AM] josé maria macedo: was this it?
[2:33:22 AM] Nick Frame: youre right this does look the same now
[2:33:25 AM] Nick Frame: close the window tho
[2:33:25 AM] josé maria macedo: i dont know why
[2:33:29 AM] josé maria macedo: the background changes color
[2:33:31 AM] josé maria macedo: when i have you here
[2:33:34 AM] josé maria macedo: it was whtie before
[2:33:38 AM] Nick Frame: minimize skype
[2:33:50 AM] Nick Frame: ok, good enough
[2:34:06 AM] josé maria macedo: ok
[2:34:09 AM] Nick Frame: u understand tho why im doing this
[2:34:14 AM] josé maria macedo: yes
[2:34:18 AM] josé maria macedo: but
[2:34:23 AM] josé maria macedo: yes
[2:34:38 AM] Nick Frame: were u ever TVing while sauron was at your house?
[2:34:44 AM] josé maria macedo: yes
[2:34:46 AM] josé maria macedo: but never in the same room
[2:34:49 AM] josé maria macedo: you only have my word
[2:34:57 AM] josé maria macedo: and he can tell you, but i could just tell him to say that
[2:35:05 AM] Nick Frame: why did u need to TV when his screen was in your house?
[2:35:09 AM] josé maria macedo: he has a laptop and i have a laptop
[2:35:28 AM] Nick Frame: yeah but dont u like, hang out together?
[2:35:35 AM] josé maria macedo: not when playing
[2:35:35 AM] Nick Frame: well nvm
[2:35:50 AM] josé maria macedo: he has a fix computer too
[2:35:53 AM] josé maria macedo: that he setup at my house
[2:36:06 AM] josé maria macedo: ohhhhh my GF was there too, she can confirm we left rooms
[2:36:09 AM] josé maria macedo: lol nvm
[2:36:14 AM] Nick Frame: so it says sauron is from belgium.
[2:36:26 AM] Nick Frame: and dollarmans "friend" also said dollar was from belgium
[2:36:28 AM] Nick Frame: whats up with that?
[2:36:37 AM] josé maria macedo: ithink thats where one of his parents is from
[2:36:55 AM] josé maria macedo: i know its spanish and some weird nationality, i thought it was french
[2:37:00 AM] josé maria macedo: but i guess it could be belgian
[2:37:05 AM] josé maria macedo: or maybe he just made it up
[2:37:07 AM] Nick Frame: who was dollarmans friend?
[2:37:08 AM] Nick Frame: was that u?
[2:37:14 AM] josé maria macedo: whos that?
[2:37:21 AM] josé maria macedo: i dont follow sorry
[2:37:21 AM] Nick Frame: that emailed Jay
[2:37:34 AM] josé maria macedo: ???
[2:37:36 AM] josé maria macedo: no
[2:37:42 AM] josé maria macedo: that wasnt me
[2:37:48 AM] josé maria macedo: it was just him probably
[2:37:57 AM] josé maria macedo: i dont think he has any friends who check his email
[2:38:07 AM] josé maria macedo: he went to spain to party with some friends at some point
[2:38:09 AM] josé maria macedo: maybe then
[2:38:15 AM] josé maria macedo: he can get you tickets and flight receipts to confirm that too
[2:38:27 AM] josé maria macedo: i was sweating jay too btw
[2:38:29 AM] Nick Frame: whats his name?
[2:38:32 AM] Nick Frame: i know
[2:38:34 AM] josé maria macedo: XXXXXXXXXXX
[2:39:17 AM] josé maria macedo: its possible belgium is just randomly made up btw
[2:39:23 AM] josé maria macedo: but i think one of his parents is from there
[2:39:29 AM] Nick Frame: so where does he live?
[2:39:33 AM] josé maria macedo: portugal
[2:39:41 AM] josé maria macedo: cascais
[2:39:46 AM] josé maria macedo: same city as me
[2:39:54 AM] josé maria macedo: well same district thing
[2:41:34 AM] josé maria macedo: anythingmore?
[2:42:04 AM] Nick Frame: nah im sure we'll talk soon
[2:42:17 AM] josé maria macedo: please nick dont go public with this
[2:42:21 AM] josé maria macedo: ill do whatever it takes
[2:42:22 AM] Nick Frame: has lock said anything to u?
[2:42:29 AM] josé maria macedo: it will have some way more serious consequences
[2:42:35 AM] josé maria macedo: nope
[2:42:41 AM] josé maria macedo: just asked what my relationship to dollar was
[2:42:42 AM] Nick Frame: why'd u tell me?
[2:42:57 AM] Nick Frame: why'd u tell me now, tonight.
[2:42:58 AM] Nick Frame: why not yesterday?
[2:43:03 AM] Nick Frame: or tomorrow
[2:43:03 AM] Nick Frame: etc
[2:43:34 AM] josé maria macedo: i dunno
[2:43:48 AM] josé maria macedo: ive been feeling terrible for ages
[2:43:55 AM] josé maria macedo: and things just kept getting worse and worse for me to tell you
[2:44:07 AM] josé maria macedo: and i told my mum
[2:44:27 AM] josé maria macedo: and she said i need to come clean and i need to stop playing XXXXXXXXX and tell him to stop playing poker and stuff
[2:44:32 AM] josé maria macedo: and i just had a guilt overload
[2:44:34 AM] josé maria macedo: admittedly not because of you
[2:44:38 AM] josé maria macedo: just because of him
[2:44:53 AM] Nick Frame: alright well ill be straight up with u
[2:45:14 AM] Nick Frame: 1.) im not sure i believe u
[2:45:20 AM] Nick Frame: 2.) we will talk more with every1
[2:45:35 AM] Nick Frame: 3.) we will figure this out
[2:45:42 AM] josé maria macedo: ok
[2:45:46 AM] Nick Frame: 4.) im not sure how i and eveyr1 else will feel about what uve said
[2:45:52 AM] josé maria macedo: all i ask is dont go public
[2:46:02 AM] josé maria macedo: because it wont just ruin poker
[2:46:16 AM] josé maria macedo: ill do w/e you want i wont coach ever again ill coach for free i wont play poker ever again
[2:46:27 AM] josé maria macedo: online
[2:46:41 AM] josé maria macedo: but going public will have much more serious consequences
[2:46:54 AM] josé maria macedo: my family wont understand etc
[2:47:23 AM] josé maria macedo: thats all i ask
[2:47:30 AM] josé maria macedo: i will pay every cent back
[2:47:38 AM] josé maria macedo: i will do whatever you deem appropriate
[2:47:48 AM] josé maria macedo: but just dont go public please
[2:48:07 AM] josé maria macedo: i made a mistake
[2:48:14 AM] josé maria macedo: im willing to never play online poker again
[2:48:16 AM] josé maria macedo: or never coach again
[2:48:19 AM] josé maria macedo: or w/e
[2:48:27 AM] josé maria macedo: if you really want to ill just walk away from poker permanently
[2:48:30 AM] Nick Frame: why? if all u did was not tell us it was your friend?
[2:48:46 AM] josé maria macedo: ...
[2:48:52 AM] josé maria macedo: if you go public thats not what youll say
[2:48:58 AM] Nick Frame: look
[2:49:00 AM] Nick Frame: if we go public
[2:49:05 AM] Nick Frame: we say EXACTLY
[2:49:08 AM] Nick Frame: what happened
[2:49:09 AM] josé maria macedo: is there a high chance you will?
[2:49:12 AM] Nick Frame: EXACTLY
[2:49:16 AM] Nick Frame: idk!!!!!!!!!!!?
[2:49:26 AM] josé maria macedo: man its all i ask
[2:49:36 AM] josé maria macedo: why do you need to do that?
[2:50:09 AM] Nick Frame: im not going to say
[2:50:10 AM] josé maria macedo: nick ill be straight with you too
[2:50:14 AM] josé maria macedo: i love poker
[2:50:22 AM] josé maria macedo: but if you want me to walk away from it
[2:50:29 AM] josé maria macedo: drop my sponsorship drop pokerstrategy drop everything
[2:50:30 AM] Nick Frame: other people need to tell me their opinions. i cant make this decision.
[2:50:32 AM] josé maria macedo: i will gladly
[2:50:37 AM] josé maria macedo: if you dont ruin my rep
[2:50:52 AM] josé maria macedo: for everything else in the rest of my life
[2:50:54 AM] Nick Frame: listne im not enjoying this
[2:50:56 AM] josé maria macedo: i think thats a fair tradeoff
[2:50:58 AM] Nick Frame: i dont want to talk anymore
[2:51:00 AM] josé maria macedo: i know you arent
[2:51:07 AM] josé maria macedo: im not trying to make you feel guilty
[2:51:20 AM] josé maria macedo: i udnerstand your position 100%
[2:51:23 AM] josé maria macedo: i want to make that clear
[2:51:35 AM] josé maria macedo: i dont hold it against you at all
[2:51:36 AM] josé maria macedo: what youre doing
[2:51:41 AM] josé maria macedo: if i sometimes seem pissed its not at you
[2:51:42 AM] josé maria macedo: its just at the situation at myself at everything
[2:51:54 AM] josé maria macedo: at the things i get myself into
[2:51:59 AM] josé maria macedo: by just being a jackass
[2:52:16 AM] josé maria macedo: what i said about sponsorship and pokerstrategy and stuff is 100% true
[2:52:24 AM] josé maria macedo: i will drop everything in return for this being kept private
[2:52:33 AM] josé maria macedo: surely that should be enough punishment
[2:52:34 AM] Nick Frame: what was the motive tho? was it just fun for u?
[2:52:41 AM] Nick Frame: whyd u tell us he was some big fish
[2:52:45 AM] Nick Frame: he CLEARLY ****ing wasnt
[2:53:06 AM] Nick Frame: if he wasnt superusing, then goddamn, because we all felt owned postflop
[2:53:14 AM] josé maria macedo: really?
[2:53:33 AM] josé maria macedo: i consider him very good when hes focussed
[2:53:36 AM] josé maria macedo: and with a terrible spew mode
[2:53:43 AM] josé maria macedo: he played the worse vs you
[2:53:49 AM] josé maria macedo: which is why i find it strange
[2:53:55 AM] josé maria macedo: he played best vs matthew
[2:54:04 AM] josé maria macedo: he was super tilted vs you
[2:54:31 AM] josé maria macedo: but again, i will drop everything as i said, without the blink of an eye
[2:54:35 AM] josé maria macedo: and i wont hold it against you at all
[2:54:58 AM] josé maria macedo: we can still talk etc if you want although i doubt you will
[2:55:48 AM] josé maria macedo: i can write the letter right now, poker fame isnt for me etc, it hasnt made me happy, ive decided to quit it
[2:55:57 AM] josé maria macedo: and ofc ill pay you all back
[2:56:01 AM] Nick Frame: shut up bro.
[2:56:05 AM] Nick Frame: dont do anything yet
[2:56:07 AM] Nick Frame: get some sleep
[2:56:09 AM] Nick Frame: i told u
[2:56:14 AM] Nick Frame: this isnt my decision.
[2:56:14 AM] josé maria macedo: ill just write the letter in case
[2:56:19 AM] Nick Frame: we'll talk more.
[2:56:19 AM] josé maria macedo: yea
[2:56:21 AM] josé maria macedo: but listen
[2:56:23 AM] josé maria macedo: just promise me this
[2:56:28 AM] josé maria macedo: if i quit poker
[2:56:31 AM] josé maria macedo: you wont go public
[2:56:33 AM] Nick Frame: stop.
[2:56:36 AM] josé maria macedo: just that one thing
[2:56:39 AM] josé maria macedo: thats all i ask
[2:56:43 AM] josé maria macedo: surely thats a fair trade
[2:57:10 AM] Nick Frame: im not into like punishing u or something. i just want to do the right thing.
[2:57:19 AM] Nick Frame: idk what that is right now. we dont have all the facts quite yet
[2:57:32 AM] josé maria macedo: but going public would punish me
[2:57:34 AM] josé maria macedo: severely
[2:57:52 AM] josé maria macedo: listen, im never been as unhappy as during the bluff challenge controversy at the beginning
[2:57:54 AM] josé maria macedo: ive never felt like that ever
[2:58:03 AM] josé maria macedo: im a super chill guy, even during downswings
[2:58:10 AM] josé maria macedo: and right now its the same feeling
[2:58:16 AM] josé maria macedo: and it will keep happening
[2:58:20 AM] josé maria macedo: and its totally my fault
[2:58:28 AM] josé maria macedo: i just want to quit
[2:58:34 AM] josé maria macedo: i wont do it now obv
[2:58:36 AM] josé maria macedo: im hotheaded
[2:59:06 AM] josé maria macedo: but doing the right thing isnt going public imo
[2:59:20 AM] josé maria macedo: and if you ever thought i was a good person at all, dont do that
[2:59:26 AM] josé maria macedo: i will do anything else
[2:59:30 AM] josé maria macedo: anyways
[2:59:42 AM] josé maria macedo: ill get all the HH's for you tomorrow
[3:00:25 AM] Nick Frame: just get some sleep
[3:00:28 AM] Nick Frame: or w/e
[3:00:38 AM] josé maria macedo: alright
[3:01:04 AM] josé maria macedo: can i be straight with you on some other stuff though?
[3:01:06 AM] josé maria macedo: unrelated to this
[3:01:14 AM] josé maria macedo: youre pretty much the only preson online i can talk to right now
[3:01:23 AM] Nick Frame: what youve got going for u is that we have all, at least at one point, liked u a lot, and u seem to be very good at poker and weve been scratching our heads at your motive.
[3:02:09 AM] josé maria macedo: i have no motive
[3:02:13 AM] Nick Frame: i still dont know what to think. i need to sleep on it and talk to others. but i give u my word we will all talk before anything is said. and u will have your chance. i honestly have no clue what they will say.
[3:02:23 AM] josé maria macedo: but
[3:02:31 AM] josé maria macedo: you think they wont accept me quitting poker as enough judgment?
[3:02:59 AM] Nick Frame: listen i think u need to walk away
[3:03:03 AM] Nick Frame: get some sleep
[3:03:07 AM] Nick Frame: go do something
[3:03:10 AM] josé maria macedo: yea i will
[3:03:15 AM] josé maria macedo: just answer that one question
[3:03:19 AM] josé maria macedo: so i can sleep

[3:03:22 AM] Nick Frame: i dont know.
[3:03:25 AM] josé maria macedo: really?
[3:03:25 AM] Nick Frame: im sorry, i dont know.
[3:03:28 AM] josé maria macedo: ****
[3:03:37 AM] Nick Frame: we'll figure it out
[3:03:54 AM] Nick Frame: if u didnt cheat us, then maybe we'll decide on something else.
[3:03:59 AM] Nick Frame: but i dont know
[3:04:02 AM] josé maria macedo: something else other than me quitting?
[3:04:13 AM] josé maria macedo: or what?
[3:04:47 AM] josé maria macedo: can you express to them, that im willing to quit everything forever to avoid this going public and having to deal with my famiily and have this attatched to me for the rest of my life
[3:04:57 AM] Nick Frame: i am going to send them our entire convo
[3:05:01 AM] Nick Frame: verbatim.
[3:05:06 AM] Nick Frame: and then we can talk
[3:05:10 AM] Nick Frame: and then we can all talk to u
[3:05:31 AM] josé maria macedo: can you tell them before, not to mention it to anyone else
[3:05:40 AM] josé maria macedo: thatd be cool
[3:05:42 AM] Nick Frame: yeah
[3:05:43 AM] Nick Frame: fwiw
[3:05:49 AM] Nick Frame: jungle knows weve been looking into this
[3:05:51 AM] Nick Frame: as does sauce
[3:06:01 AM] josé maria macedo: yea
[3:06:20 AM] Nick Frame: and NoahSD
[3:06:28 AM] Nick Frame: and i believe geeforce was pmd by matt todayy
[3:06:31 AM] josé maria macedo: youre gonna tell them all?
[3:06:34 AM] Nick Frame: and thats it afaik
[3:06:38 AM] josé maria macedo: what ive said today?
[3:06:41 AM] Nick Frame: not them
[3:07:04 AM] Nick Frame: this convo will be read by wouter, oscar, matt, henrik, ivar, and Jay
[3:07:22 AM] josé maria macedo: can you tell them not to tell anyone?
[3:07:29 AM] Nick Frame: theyll read it ^
[3:07:31 AM] josé maria macedo: and to stop telling more ppl?
[3:07:39 AM] Nick Frame: well jose, u have to understand
[3:07:47 AM] josé maria macedo: its all speculation as of right now
[3:07:50 AM] Nick Frame: we were very sure somehting very fishy was going on.
[3:07:58 AM] Nick Frame: and we were tyring to get to the bottom of it
[3:08:06 AM] Nick Frame: its good u told me when u did tho
[3:09:17 AM] josé maria macedo: all these ppl think im some kind of scammer?
[3:09:28 AM] josé maria macedo: that sweats and scams ppl at 1knl?
[3:10:09 AM] Nick Frame: what should i/we have thought?
[3:10:22 AM] josé maria macedo: i dunno, anything else
[3:10:29 AM] Nick Frame: but we were right tho?
[3:10:32 AM] Nick Frame: something fishy was going on
[3:10:36 AM] josé maria macedo: yea
[3:10:47 AM] josé maria macedo: not what you think though
[3:10:47 AM] Nick Frame: ok look. lets just talk tomorrow.
[3:10:54 AM] Nick Frame: idk what it is yet.
[3:10:55 AM] josé maria macedo: no man
[3:10:58 AM] josé maria macedo: im gonna quit poker
[3:10:58 AM] Nick Frame: i cant trust u
[3:11:08 AM] Nick Frame: uve lied to me already many times in the past 2 hrs or we
[3:11:11 AM] Nick Frame: w/e*
[3:11:17 AM] Nick Frame: stop acting rash.
[3:11:22 AM] Nick Frame: we will figure this out
[3:11:24 AM] josé maria macedo: nothing else has made me feel like this
[3:11:51 AM] Nick Frame: i feel weird talking about it
[3:11:55 AM] Nick Frame: can we just stop.
[3:12:00 AM] Nick Frame: i dont like the position im in
[3:12:03 AM] josé maria macedo: its ok
[3:12:50 AM] Nick Frame: ttyl ok?
[3:13:45 AM] josé maria macedo: yeah

Some stuff of the last week between me and Jose:
are you gonna push for it to go public?
[05/08/2011 17:17:03] josé maria macedo: its ok
[05/08/2011 17:17:07] josé maria macedo: i wont hold it against you or anything
[05/08/2011 17:17:18] josé maria macedo: i just hope you realize the consequences on my life and everything else
[05/08/2011 17:17:22] Matthew Moss: i understand that
[05/08/2011 17:17:24] Matthew Moss: but i hope you realise
[05/08/2011 17:17:30] Matthew Moss: that the implications of us not making it public
[05/08/2011 17:17:34] Matthew Moss: is to risk the rest of hsnl
[05/08/2011 17:17:36] Matthew Moss: getting scammed
[05/08/2011 17:17:41] Matthew Moss: even if it appears you've learnt your lesson
[05/08/2011 17:17:41] josé maria macedo: not if i quit poker for life
[05/08/2011 17:17:45] Matthew Moss: it's not fair on someone like geeforce1
[05/08/2011 17:17:49] josé maria macedo: if thats what you want
[05/08/2011 17:17:53] Matthew Moss: who you randomly get in contact with
[05/08/2011 17:17:56] Matthew Moss: and i have to track
[05/08/2011 17:17:58] josé maria macedo: and im never gonna do it again
[05/08/2011 17:18:01] Matthew Moss: so that he deosnt play sauron1989 on ipk

[05/08/2011 17:19:06] josé maria macedo: but i would rather
[05/08/2011 17:19:08] josé maria macedo: i would rather do that
[05/08/2011 17:19:10] josé maria macedo: please
[05/08/2011 17:19:11] josé maria macedo: please
[05/08/2011 17:19:15] josé maria macedo: i would rather quit poker
[05/08/2011 17:19:16] josé maria macedo: quit lock
[05/08/2011 17:19:18] josé maria macedo: quit pokerstrategy
[05/08/2011 17:19:22] josé maria macedo: then this go public
[05/08/2011 17:19:30] josé maria macedo: so in that way
[05/08/2011 17:19:32] josé maria macedo: the rest of HSNL isnt at risk
[05/08/2011 17:19:36] josé maria macedo: so please
[05/08/2011 17:19:42] josé maria macedo: dont make it a decision between going public, and not going
[05/08/2011 17:19:49] josé maria macedo: make it between me quitting poker, or not quitting
[05/08/2011 17:19:55] josé maria macedo: because the consequences are the same
[05/08/2011 17:19:59] josé maria macedo: and i would prefer it
[05/08/2011 17:20:05] josé maria macedo: can you do that?
[05/08/2011 17:20:23] Matthew Moss: give me some time
[05/08/2011 17:20:24] Matthew Moss: ok
[05/08/2011 17:20:34] Matthew Moss: i am prob the main proponent of taking this public fwiw
[05/08/2011 17:20:43] josé maria macedo: ok
[05/08/2011 17:20:51] Matthew Moss: because of the- it defends everyone else
[05/08/2011 17:20:57] josé maria macedo: but please
[05/08/2011 17:21:04] josé maria macedo: me quitting also defends everyone else
[05/08/2011 17:21:07] Matthew Moss: yeah
[05/08/2011 17:21:13] josé maria macedo: so whats the difference?
[05/08/2011 17:21:21] Matthew Moss: well the difference is in 4 years
[05/08/2011 17:21:22] josé maria macedo: you get to defend everyone else while not ruining a former friend's life
[05/08/2011 17:21:24] Matthew Moss: when you need money
[05/08/2011 17:21:26] josé maria macedo: surely thats a net gain
[05/08/2011 17:21:31] Matthew Moss: you could pull the same sort of stuff
[05/08/2011 17:21:34] Matthew Moss: you couldnt if it went public
[05/08/2011 17:21:36] Matthew Moss: on top of that
[05/08/2011 17:21:44] Matthew Moss: it going public is kind of the appropriate punishment imo
[05/08/2011 17:21:49] Matthew Moss: i mean it's tough
[05/08/2011 17:21:50] josé maria macedo: please matt
[05/08/2011 17:21:53] Matthew Moss: but not inappropriate
[05/08/2011 17:24:02] Matthew Moss: do you have any like
[05/08/2011 17:24:04] Matthew Moss: inklings
[05/08/2011 17:24:07] Matthew Moss: of why you did it?
[05/08/2011 17:24:09] josé maria macedo: no
[05/08/2011 17:24:13] josé maria macedo: no idea at all
[05/08/2011 17:24:16] josé maria macedo: my life was going amazingly
[05/08/2011 17:24:16] Matthew Moss: this is out of a pure interest point of view now
[05/08/2011 17:24:21] josé maria macedo: i was really happy
[05/08/2011 17:24:26] josé maria macedo: theres just nothing i could ever think of
[05/08/2011 17:24:30] josé maria macedo: it seems like i just didnt think
[05/08/2011 17:24:33] josé maria macedo: like my mind blanked
[05/08/2011 17:24:53] josé maria macedo: it makes no sense
[05/08/2011 17:24:55] josé maria macedo: from any standpoint
[05/08/2011 17:25:02] Matthew Moss: so odd
[05/08/2011 17:25:07] Matthew Moss: when did the idea form?
[05/08/2011 17:25:13] josé maria macedo: well
[05/08/2011 17:25:19] josé maria macedo: i setup the account for my friend
[05/08/2011 17:25:24] josé maria macedo: and he played some ppl
[05/08/2011 17:25:25] josé maria macedo: then played oscar
[05/08/2011 17:25:27] josé maria macedo: i sweated oscar
[05/08/2011 17:25:32] josé maria macedo: that game was legit btw
[05/08/2011 17:25:40] josé maria macedo: he was at his house i was at mine
[05/08/2011 17:25:43] Matthew Moss: ok
[05/08/2011 17:25:44] josé maria macedo: he won a ton
[05/08/2011 17:25:44] josé maria macedo: then he came over
[05/08/2011 17:25:45] Matthew Moss: yeah
[05/08/2011 17:25:49] josé maria macedo: played someone else
[05/08/2011 17:25:56] josé maria macedo: said he wanted to play some of my friends
[05/08/2011 17:26:04] josé maria macedo: and me too
[05/08/2011 17:26:06] josé maria macedo: we played legit
[05/08/2011 17:26:08] Matthew Moss: so i mean technically the oscar game was fine
[05/08/2011 17:26:13] Matthew Moss: but w/e
[05/08/2011 17:26:17] Matthew Moss: still right to pay him back imo
[05/08/2011 17:26:27] josé maria macedo: lol
[05/08/2011 17:26:28] josé maria macedo: ofc it is
[05/08/2011 17:26:30] josé maria macedo: ofc
[05/08/2011 17:26:40] Matthew Moss: bc you cant prove any of that and it looks like a massive cluster**** if you pay back xx% but not this this and this matches
[05/08/2011 17:26:41] Matthew Moss: ok
[05/08/2011 17:26:45] Matthew Moss: my first match wasnt legit was it
[05/08/2011 17:26:47] Matthew Moss: i could feel it wasnt
[05/08/2011 17:26:51] josé maria macedo: i would never dream of not paying back
[05/08/2011 17:26:53] Matthew Moss: i wanted to ask you to stop sweating
[05/08/2011 17:26:57] Matthew Moss: about 2/3 through
[05/08/2011 17:26:58] Matthew Moss: but was like
[05/08/2011 17:27:04] Matthew Moss: this is being overly paranoid and dumb
[05/08/2011 17:27:10] josé maria macedo: yeah
[05/08/2011 17:27:11] Matthew Moss: this guy is the portuguese prodigy girah guy
[05/08/2011 17:27:54] josé maria macedo: i mean it when i say i would rather do anything than it go public
[05/08/2011 17:27:56] josé maria macedo: anything
[05/08/2011 17:28:01] josé maria macedo: if we were ever friends, give me at least that
[05/08/2011 17:28:18] josé maria macedo: to everyone, not just you
[05/08/2011 17:28:55] Matthew Moss: the only thing is
[05/08/2011 17:28:58] Matthew Moss: looking through this chat log
[05/08/2011 17:29:03] Matthew Moss: you added me like a few days before i played sauron
[05/08/2011 17:29:08] Matthew Moss: which is pretty lame

[05/08/2011 17:32:11] josé maria macedo: this was never planned at all
[05/08/2011 17:32:14] josé maria macedo: im a good guy i think
[05/08/2011 17:32:19] josé maria macedo: i just made a mistake
[05/08/2011 17:32:24] josé maria macedo: just dont ruin my life
[05/08/2011 17:32:51] Matthew Moss: wrt it not being about the money
[05/08/2011 17:32:59] josé maria macedo: thats all i ask
[05/08/2011 17:33:01] Matthew Moss: why were you suddenly trying to add and scam cuff0 or geeforce
[05/08/2011 17:33:08] josé maria macedo: ive already told my mum
[05/08/2011 17:33:17] josé maria macedo: and she yelled at me so much
[05/08/2011 17:33:23] josé maria macedo: she basically refuses to talk to me
[05/08/2011 17:33:33] josé maria macedo: she says poker changed me etc she didnt raise me like this
[05/08/2011 17:33:35] josé maria macedo: and its all true
[05/08/2011 17:33:53] josé maria macedo: please make the argument between letting me quit poker, or allowing me to stay in poker
[05/08/2011 17:34:02] josé maria macedo: ive shown good will, i know ive ****ed up majorly
[05/08/2011 17:35:16] josé maria macedo: i wasnt, theres no way for you to know that, but my friend genuinely wanted to play geeforce at 25 50 with a show every hand rule
[05/08/2011 17:35:29] josé maria macedo: i wouldnt just randomly ask to sweat someone through twoplustwo
[05/08/2011 17:35:31] josé maria macedo: someone i dont know at all
[05/08/2011 17:35:36] josé maria macedo: basically he played him legitimately
[05/08/2011 17:35:45] josé maria macedo: thought gee had an edge on him
[05/08/2011 17:35:46] josé maria macedo: but thought if he saw his hands he could beat him
[05/08/2011 17:35:55] josé maria macedo: my friend can confirm all of this
[05/08/2011 17:36:05] josé maria macedo: i can ask him to come on skype once he gets back, or right today if it would make things easier
[05/08/2011 17:36:08] Matthew Moss: well i pmed him and am talking to him later so will ask his side of story

[05/08/2011 17:42:38] Matthew Moss: public or not
[05/08/2011 17:43:08] josé maria macedo: man matthew, dont make this weigh into your decision and im not trying to threaten or anything like that because its obv not like that. but honestly, i would actually rather die than it go public
[05/08/2011 17:43:11] josé maria macedo: thats how much it means to me
[05/08/2011 17:45:08] josé maria macedo: surely while the compensation doesnt affect the decision in that its not a bribe, it also shows some good will? shows that i know how much i ****ed up etc

[05/08/2011 17:45:59] josé maria macedo: im not interested in going public
[05/08/2011 17:46:01] josé maria macedo: yeah it is ofc
[05/08/2011 17:46:13] josé maria macedo: i know what i did is wrong
[05/08/2011 17:46:18] josé maria macedo: but it wasnt some elaborate plan
[05/08/2011 17:46:18] josé maria macedo: and it wasnt to make money
[05/08/2011 17:46:25] josé maria macedo: i have sauce jungle etc that i can sweat
[05/08/2011 17:46:36] josé maria macedo: all play much higher stakes
[05/08/2011 17:46:36] josé maria macedo: nto to mention all my students
[05/08/2011 17:46:40] josé maria macedo: if it was some elaborate ploy
[05/08/2011 17:46:40] Matthew Moss: yeah
[05/08/2011 17:46:44] Matthew Moss: which is why we cant not go public
[05/08/2011 17:46:45] Matthew Moss: bc
[05/08/2011 17:46:48] josé maria macedo: i wouldve just scammed ppl already
[05/08/2011 17:46:48] Matthew Moss: you have 80 students
[05/08/2011 17:46:54] josé maria macedo: yeah but i wont coach anymore
[05/08/2011 17:46:57] Matthew Moss: how do we know you're not scamming them

[05/08/2011 17:47:45] josé maria macedo: we can draw up a contract
[05/08/2011 17:47:46] Matthew Moss: sit down and talk this over
[05/08/2011 17:47:47] Matthew Moss: with dogishead
[05/08/2011 17:47:48] josé maria macedo: that if i ever come back
[05/08/2011 17:47:48] Matthew Moss: and jungle
[05/08/2011 17:47:53] josé maria macedo: i will pay 200k
[05/08/2011 17:47:59] josé maria macedo: and you will go public

Last edited by NoahSD; 08-10-2011 at 12:02 AM.