You are doing the exact same thing as bryce. You are ****ing the skilled players to maintain your edge.

No i am not...don't hate the player hate the game!



Anyway I found a great quote from Bryce himself, It is dated 2007 from his well on 2+2....here is Bryce's(the man trying to implement his elimination of HU game selection) quote:

"Well, I think one of the important parts of gaming is being able to decline action, so grabbing a guy off the street and having him play 3000/6000 HU isn't really something I'd be up for, but basically I'd want a HU LHE game with huge stakes and the softest opponent possible. "


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/94...ce-well-44368/

I guess when his action slows down...his philosophy on "gaming" seems to change...suprised?

Haven't read the entire thread, stopped at around page 6.

If the game changes in favor of forcing action, that doesn't force you to play. You still have the freedom to not play heads up poker.

Imagine a competitive environment such as football, chess, soccer, basketball, whatever game you want. Imagine if no one wanted to play anyone better than them. Imagine if there was no forced structure to make the weak play the strong. We'd have nothing to watch, there would be no games. That's exactly what is happening to the landscape of heads up poker. And bum hunting (freedom fighting or whatever the **** you want to call yourself) is bad for the game. To take it to the extreme imagine if the fish didn't want to play anyone worse than worse fish. You would be making nothing. The current system is good for no one.

icracknuts is crushin ITT

And people thought my analogies were bad....yikes!

The current system is good for a lot of people...come on man if you want to make a claim provide factual evidence; don't just rattle of the same crap that all the other HYPOCRITES try to pass of as truths.

How are my analogies bad? You are doing the exact same thing that you claim you hate people doing in this thread. Saying some comment without backing it up. And I'm the hypocrite.

My point is, if everyone had your mentality, no one would play this game. And that is where we are headed. You want evidence? OPEN UP THE LOBBY. SEE HOW MANY GAMES ARE PLAYING. I count ONE 200nl game playing on pokerstars, and approximately 20 tables with 1 person sitting at it. So congratulations, the system is good for 5% of the population. Playing people only worse than you is bad for the game. Meaning if everyone had your mentality, no one would play ever.

Great thing about the internet; as far as I go, I have nothing else to prove.

I wanted to expose his lack of morals and charactor...thereby, eliminating any credibility to his arguments.

He got rich off a system the current system; the action no longer is satisfactory for him; so he wants changes applied to the game in order to make them profitable for him.

But doing so he exposes himself as a very bad person

I already knew the truth behind his motives; took me less than 5 min to find factual hard evidence to support it.

All his bad for the game; bad for the site; bad for the fish; "PULLING THE WOOL OVER YOUR EYES"

The Truth all he cares about: BAD FOR HIM

Sry Bryce "I Am A Freedom Fighter"....you stood no chance in this battle.

Bryce crushed you. Not sure what thread you were reading.

When people play football etc against each other, they play in TOURNAMENTS or LEAGUES. Something you can do in poker as well.

Also its bad to compare poker with football, since in poker you are playing for real money and using money to make bets. Its a different beast.

You should be allowed to decide who you want to play poker against. Period. Its very simple really.

Anyway I found a great quote from Bryce himself, It is dated 2007 from his well on 2+2....here is Bryce's(the man trying to implement his elimination of HU game selection) quote:

"Well, I think one of the important parts of gaming is being able to decline action, so grabbing a guy off the street and having him play 3000/6000 HU isn't really something I'd be up for, but basically I'd want a HU LHE game with huge stakes and the softest opponent possible. "


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/94...ce-well-44368/

I guess when his action slows down...his philosophy on "gaming" seems to change...suprised?

damn you icracknuts for getting me invested in this thread!

My point was that they have structure to their league, which promotes healthy competition. Something that the heads up environment is desperately in need of. I can play tournaments but it's a different format than a cash game. I would LOVE it if there was something similar to a tournament style of play which forces players to play against each other, but in a cash game setting. Sort of like what Bryce suggest with the 200 hand limits. Telling me to go play a tournament because that's what I'm looking for is silly. That's not what I want at all, I'm looking to play heads up cash that forces players to play against each other.

thanks for coming along...I think I am going to bed now good night and good luck...keep the thread alive!

Then why dont you just play HU cash against people who want to play against you? Is it because only people who are better than you want to play you?

Not everyone plays poker for competition. Some people play just to make money and if you ask any nondelusional professional poker player, he will say thats the number one reason for playing poker.

Seriously that is the dumbest part of this whole debate. There are obviously a lot of guys who claim they want to battle regulars in HU cash but feel they say they can't find competition. Yet if you at any time post on the HU forum that you're looking for a game at mid-high stakes you could find someone to play *all day long*. The fact is that you are, in fact, just bum hunting like the all those guys sitting at empty tables. If more than one person is complaining about "omg I can't get a hu game" well guess what my friends, PM each other! But again you're just being hypocrites about this - I certainly almost never see 5/10 games.

This is the best overview of the poker ecosystem I've seen. WP, sir.

No one should be forced to play someone that they don't want to play, but the sites don't have an obligation to provide an infinite number of HU tables, nor to boot table blockers.

Also, while it's clear that both sides are looking out for their bottom line, it's also clear that eliminating bumhunting would be good for the game. A lobby full of people refusing to play one another is not inviting.

Of all the businesses filled with shadyness and manipulation, it would be kinda ignorant to think that poker should be fair and clean for all. Tho ofc we should still fight for it!

I see bumhunting as a big error in poker. Its a mistake its even possible. For me its like, lets say u start a Bball team and choose to only play vs midget teams. U would probly have big succes doing this and ppl who knows nothing about basketball would probly think u were talented etc... But those who knows about bball would most likely see it as a joke, disgusting, taking their profession to a lower level etc. DUCY they would think this? Kinda the same when u talk about the elite of poker..

In the early ages of most sports, there has been big mistakes, mistakes that players and spectators did not see as being wrong or bad for the game in the beginning, but with time these mistakes was changed and modernised for a better game.
Without a doubt some players also in those sports did not want changes, for the same reasons as OP does not want changes. The succes would be tougher to achieve! And since the old rules was the same for everyone, then it had to be fair for everyone, but ofc we know now that is not true..

Hopefully the same will happen with poker, since online poker is still relatively new and many many changes will still come to every aspect of the game.. So just because some "players" like the current state of the game doesnt make it fair and neither unfair for others to change it, if they believe it would improve..

Many countries have big lawsuits, where some are trying to establish poker as a sport/skillgame and this way legalise it. If its all about spending most hrs and then increasing ur chance of catching a fish, its hard for us to say its a skillgame, no?

I think the random playpool wich bryce mentioned is perfect for the games.. If it makes it too hard for u, move down a level..! And when u moved down too much to be able to pay ur bills, then maybe poker is not a game u should play professionally. The same way that i know i will never be a professional football player, im just not good enough!

Bryce, whilst I agree with you that the lobbies are a joke, look awful and are essentially a fish lottery, you are such a hypocrite. You and all HU players who think that because they are at the top of pecking order - they are essentially bumhunting.

Whats even more ******ed is making blogs for a site (CARDRUNNERS) which has single handedly destroyed online poker by teaching people the fundamentals needed to beat nlhe, in order for your own bottom lines to be increased is such hypocrisy - you people who make vids/coach people to make money for yourselves have ruined online poker - it is you who have even taught most of these HU bumhunters how to play simple effective abc poker which can be used to beat the fish. Now if you dont actually make vids I apologise, but blogging for them or bluefire or any other training/coaching sites is helping promote these sites which in turn is generally worse for the games than 40 bumhunters sitting at 400nl.

It is also ridiculous as you are simply wanting all the fish or 'weaker' players for yourself. Someone who isnt as skilled as you is a fish basically to you thus you are bumhunting yourself. Get over your self righteousness. Nobody would ever make money from poker if everyone was equally skilled - you think youd rather play tough opponents all day long for 8 hrs a day and breakeven or lose for a living? Ya ok.

I have posted in the HU4rollz thread, and have played anyone who wanted to play. There still isn't enough action. Even though just because there's a thread about it doesn't mean every player there is going to play me. Doesn't mean there is no bum hunting just because there is a thread about it. Bum hunting is bad for the game, you cannot deny that. Sure it's profitable, and good for your bottom line, but look at what bumhunters have done to the game. Look at the lobbies, look how hard it is to find action. Something needs to change. What's bad for poker is bad for all of us.

I'm pretty sure he is advocating a system where you don't get to choose your opponent. Some times you will get someone better, sometimes you get someone worse. The fact is, you get to PLAY heads up poker.

I would also like to add that I am no good at heads up, and am probably considered a fish. I've probably played less than 35k hands lifetime at heads up poker, and no one will play with me. All I want to do is play, improve, and get better at a game that I enjoy to play.

So, my viewpoint is not that of a sharks, who has made a ton of money at heads up poker. My viewpoint comes from the fact that I can't even play this game because of the unwillingness of players to play each other that aren't super massive fish.

The current state of the games is abysmal, and it's only going to get worse, because there will be less fish (unless legislation changes), and if there are no fish, there are no games if the bumhunters are unwilling to play each other.

This is also a poor analogy. Athletes in football, basketball, and soccer don't bet one another on the outcome of the game. The best of the best play one another because it is entertaining for the spectators. They make money from ticket sales, TV deals, and endorsements. Do you really think the Colts would play the Patriots if all the players were betting 1/16th (or maybe 1/18th next year) of their yearly salary on the outcome of each game? They might play the Lions, but I doubt Matt Stafford would be putting up part of his 42 mil dollar contact on the outcome of the game.
As far as Chess, there's a reason there isnt a culture of "ship it holla, balla's" in the chess world. No one makes any money playing it. Its boring to watch the best play one another and weaker players arent going to bet against better players.

link to Curtians playing a 12 year old in chess... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMM2R...layer_embedded

Ok, it wasn't the best analogy, but the players still play for something. They play for a chance to get to the playoffs and win the superbowl. And guess what, if you win the superbowl, you get PAID. Do you think Brady would have as much money he has if he won 0 superbowls? So they are still playing for money. If they could choose who they played, they would play the weakest opponents to try to get to the superbowl to win, everyone would play the lions, and the patriots/steelers whoever would never play each other.

This is exactly what is happening in heads up poker. There are very few games being played because no one wants to hurt their own bottom line, which is highly logical/rational. But no one can deny that it's not good for the game. So, if we want to preserve the game we want to play, we need to implement some change.

Instead of arguing, we should collaboratively think of some suggestions to improve the state of the games for everyone.

bumhunting is bad for poker /thread