In 2012, Ivey played a rather solid schedule as well:
http://www.wsopdb.com/?q=Phil+Ivey

its kind of amazing that Yamron responded to an accusation made by "anonymous ppl on the internet" whose evidence was "well maybe....".

I was surprised to be contacted by Yamron as well, but it makes sense, given that forums like this do disproportionately influence how people think about poker.

I come to this forum far more often than to sites (or magazines) that are dependent on casino advertising.

I am not sure why Yamron chose to contact me, except that I gave him my card, I am a decent writer, and I am genuinely interested in the techniques of tournament poker. Unfortunately, I cannot assert anything about his actual play, because mixed-games are something I am just at the outset of understanding. That said, WSOP has archived the tournament footage on their website at http://www.wsop.com/videos/?vcat=3 and wiser ppl than me have given their opinions.

Thanks for the link; I didn't know it existed & I'm impressed by your research on that.

Perhaps Harlabob had other reasons for saying PI/DN's bracelet bet was +EV for them instead of the public?

Regardless, I still feel skeptical that a special deal was done to clinch a bracelet (there will always be that tiny seed of doubt, I guess...).

Good point, but this is why it makes it such a huge problem. You are expecting someone to not do something that is ONLY unethical if he has a bracelet bet, but would be perfectly ethical in the world of poker if he didn't have a side bet.

Once you get to this point, the only question is do Ivey's ethics preclude him from striking a deal here in order to protect a huge amount of money? This would go for any poker player.

The only thing that is certain is that the odds of a deal happening are greater than if there are no side bets (normal bracelet battle). You can also conclude that the odds of a deal are greater if Ivey and his heads up opponent have a close bond, or history of financial dealings, than if they didn't know each other.

Whatever the case, the only two variables that matter will increase the odds of a deal. Taking into account known facts about the lengths that Phil Ivey will go to get an edge (elaborate casino ruse involving Chinese speaking partner and ordering dealer to move cards around in a certain way in order to read flaws in the deck playing baccarat), and it takes zero imagination that he would find a way to tilt the odds in his favor here.

Not saying it happened, and I don't actually care at all what happened. All I'm saying is that the odds of a deal in this specific situation, are greater than the odds of a deal in a random heads up situation.

Think of all of the deals that young upstart hotshots have made during the glory days of poker. They were looking for sponsorships, and winning a bracelet can be the ticket to that. Do you think that some deals were made there, in order to get some money gushing poker site to sponsor a bracelet winner? You bet there were. The early days of the Main Event were mostly comprised of winners who made deals. They all knew that the public was being misled. They were trying to grow the sport, or getting bracelets to particular players for whatever reason. They were willing to do that in the biggest poker tournament in the world. They kept those deals to themselves.

Ivey, or any other high stakes poker player, would have one question only in this spot. "Can I tilt the odds in my favor without getting caught"? In reality, Ivey is a much better player than his opponent, so he is a likely winner anyways, so I would actually bet that no deal was made, but it is not out of the question that Yamron played timid on purpose, with no expectation of a payoff, knowing that Ivey had side bets. Now, this may seem like an outrageous idea, and it is a bit of a longshot, but for a super fan like Yamron, it is not out of the question. Not likely a total gift, but the play could have been effected, even subconsciously. This happens in lots of sporting events with great frequency, though of course, poker is not a sport.

Must be nice to put Ivey into 75/150 games

These are arguments a NLHE grinder would make, because their job involves playing with far more randoms than Ivy's job does.

Phil is a high stakes player. Reputation is hugely important there because it's such a small player pool. You play and loan and borrow from the same people over and over. Pull some angles and life gets much harder for you, you won't hear about the good games, or get loans, and maybe some whales don't want to play with you anymore.

Ivy had a HUGE incentive not to make a deal, since his future earnings from prop betting/playing high stakes with these people/ fish dwarf this bet.

And his "casino scam" was essentially the same as card counting.

For those who didn't watch the FT. Yamron, ran pretty bad against Phil. Even Phil said he got some really good hands and he just had to play the deck. Yamron got coolered for 2 big pots

Exactly. One of the first hands played involved Ivey 3 betting x(22) in Stud and then hitting a 2 on sixth street the same time Yamrom hit an open pair to improve his hand.

I'm not sure why people are so caught up on this idea of a deal. He (obviously) didn't make a deal in his numerous final tables in 2012, and he's had millions riding on these bets for years.

Mason, the publicity surrounding the bet definitely helps market them both as players(both being Dnegs and ivey). This was surely part of the reason behind the bet. Theres a intrinsic dollar value to this publicity

cliffs?

You verbalized my own exact thoughts on this matter better than I could. Thank you.

this is a little off topic but thoughts on why Tom Dwan didn't offer Simon Watt a sweetener? "It was rumored that Dwan was to win $9-12 million if he captured a WSOP gold bracelet."

My thoughts as well.

As for this situation, if expert players say the play was legitimate, I would take that as the best evidence that no deal was made. That, in my mind, would be where it would most likely be seen.

I don't think it's particularly hard to keep your mouth shut about getting six figures in extra value above your EV to let a player beat you, especially when they are your good friend.

This stuff might sound scummy, but these people are gamblers, that throw millions around at bets. We've seen the situations with Ivey and the England and now AC casinos.

To put it another way, if Ivey offered you a bet against him beating a craps table, would you take it? I wouldn't, I would assume he has some sort of an edge somewhere and he's gambling that the house nor the opponent will recognize it and prevent him from continuing to play. Some people might call that shady, I suppose it depends on the legalities of where you are playing, but many others would consider that akin to counting cards in blackjack, which is not illegal nor shady, it's more of a calculated gamble.

Probably because suspicion doesn't mean anything to them, and pretty much fades and disappears after a few weeks after the predictable 2p2 threads run their course.

FYP

Wow amazing info...Anybody know what games they were, limit stud or what?
Plus Ivey moved to Vegas in 2000 so Yamron of met him at the beginning of 2000 before his Tunica Binion and WSOP sucess in April/May 2000?

So if he put him in those games it was probably only during a 3 month period.

Cliffs: Guy accused of cheating denies it. Shocking.

Remember that this was a casual conversation, not a deposition. Yamron said "around 2000." The year 2000 being a kind of handy marker for remembering things.