Does seem super nitty to bitch over the 3% staff. Clearly I wish they wouldn't take it out, but at least they're honoring their guarantee.

If they got exactly the amount of players needed to match a guarantee, no one would be surprised when they took the 3% off the top, like they said they would.

That being said, wish they would just add it up in the rake and leave the prize pool alone.

And that language in the compact in regards to customer issues like this one is:

"All Patron disputes involving gaming will be resolved in accordance with the procedures established in the Seminole Tribal Gaming Code."

The only tort claim for which the tribe waives its sovereign immunity under the compact is injury of a patron, and then only "to the same extent as the State of Florida waives its sovereign immunity" - which means a 100K cap per incident.

You may be right:
http://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press...ve-payday-loan

However, it may take a court ruling to make that determination certain. The case referenced above was in regards to a business (payday loans) which operated outside of Tribal lands with an affiliation to a tribe. Suing the Seminole tribe for false advertising under the FTC act is a few steps beyond that and might garner a different ruling (or the federal district court that has jurisdiction for Florida might in general rule differently on the applicability of the FTC act to Indian tribes).

There is no such thing as a gross prize pool. There is the total entry fees and the actual prize pool. The difference is the rake or the money added.

However, I don't have a big problem with your approach, as long as any advertising and entry forms make it clear the guarantee refers to a "gross prize pool" so that people have the opportunity to guess/find out what that really means.

In the case of the Florida tribe, presumably they will pay out a winner if they don't want bad publicity.

Why would someone play slots there if they think they have no legal way to get their money if they win?

The Seminole tribe has been pretty above board about these things since I reported them a couple years ago to the National Indian Gaming Commission in regards to advertising and policy issues with their poker jackpot drop. And its been a few years since any Seminole Tribal Council corruption has surfaced. Seems like they are pretty legit now, although uniformity in floor policies and decisions in Tampa is still pretty spartan.

I think SHR payout is good.

One of the reasons I passed on Winstar this weekend is the ******ed, skewed pay structure that will result from a guaranteed $1M first place-one that they will never meet or have met in the past from normal payout structure.

Last year the hard rock gave away hundreds of seats to high hand winners and different promotions. This year they didn't if they would of gave away as many seats as they did last year they would of met the guarantee. It's there own fault for that reason alone.

You just love making these controversial threads for attention.

The last one was fine, this one seems like an attention whore post.

The only thing worse than not having an argument is posting in a thread to let people know you don't have an argument.

Personality is only relevant if we are talking about candidates for office.

Thread has legit questions and points for discussion.

Thread started by Chainsaw, therefore compromising it for many posters.

View: black out OP username, and I think you'll find the topic worth reading.

See what I mean:

Seminole Hard Rock Poker Boss “On Vacation” During $2.5M Overlay, High Roller Dispute

Seminole should have given away enough seats in high hand drawing or whatever to ensure this could not happen. For example, if they gave 500 seats with drop money and lowered the guaratee to 5 million this would be an incredible value event for traveling players (playing against players who got free seats is great value because they are not experienced tournament players).

So, this does not have to be the end of huge guarantees. The people who run them just need to be smarter about it.

Seminole Hard kicks in $2.5M to make guarantee

What cardroom gives away $5,300 tournament tickets? How would you do it? High hand for 12 hour periods twice a day for 250 days? I really think the cash game players would be rightfully upset if all their promotional money was raked off and given away as entries for a tournament that they don't want to play/can't win.

They can try giving away satty tickets and running more sattys, but even that has a ceiling. $2.5 million is a boatload of money to make up for in promotional money.

You'd think what this guy is saying would be common sense, but having worked with a lot of casinos it's not. I mean the poker room managers and TDs get it, apparently CEOs and COOs can understand it, but some bureaucrat in middle management drops the ball and fails to see the big picture.

Big tournaments are good for the bottom line as far as the pits, entertainment and all the other revenue makers that welcomes a ton of players (many degens) crowding their casino... This isn't news, it's why they dole out big bucks to get entertainers to come to their casinos. However, I've found out the way one major poker provider is structured, poker tournaments don't get any credit for the upswing in revenues in other areas. Poker tournaments at that venue are only judged by the profit they generate themselves, sometimes they have to fight to get the manager to acknowledge the uptick in rake in the cash games is also produced by the tournaments. As a result they spend next to nothing in advertising and seem fine to do little to nothing to support the tournaments they host. Cutting their nose off to spite their face.

2.5 million is a lot, and this guy may be saving face a little bit, but still there's a big picture here and he sees it. Most don't.

well just what do you think of winstars payout? you praised them so much what about now?

attn. matt savage...chainsaw just said something positive about you...must be snowing in California right now

you think wtf at that, go look at winstars

He does alot of stuff right.

why would you even make this thread...? it's killing my overlay action tbh

with a fuggin king kigger

You're a regular Norma Rae

Except not quite so perky.

its just stating the obvious. when a casino makes a guarantee, in general, they plan on easily beating it for the most part. obviously, seminole was trying to build a name for itself so they went for a big number here.

of course every player loves an overlay. the truth is most casinos will just lower the guarantees or stop putting a guarantee on an event if they miss. that's basically what allan is saying.

LOL