Just to be clear, you're asserting that FTP funds were constructively received by everybody, regardless of whether or not they actually ever receive the funds via remission? Do you have a link? ... (A quick forum search suggests that it is not clear cut either way.)

What about other creditors too? Players are not the only ones owed money. I am sure there are tons of consultants, legal bills, and a host of vendors.

Has anyone seen this list?

That is what usually ties these cases up more.

These things usually do come up in cases like this BUT NOT in a remissions process. A remissions process is specifically created for VICTIMS of crime and is not intended as a method to pay CREDITORS.

I suspect there are many creditors of FTP out there, and probably some who have outstanding bills, but they are not "victims" as that term applies to the remission process. Accordingly, while we player/victims still have plenty to worry about, creditors slowing the remission process is not one of them.

Skallagrim

The DOJ seems to be suggesting that - since they couldn't pay remission if the accounts weren't property - but neither the attorney quoted nor anyone else credible is suggesting that paying taxes on the amount of a player balance which constitutes winnings (upon which taxes have not yet been paid) would be a 'tax case' - that's simply paying taxes.

When he refers to a tax case, I believe he's talking about those who simply never paid taxes and might be at risk of an IRS case dating back prior to 2011, but IF the IRS gets player account data AND chooses to build tax cases from it, declining to submit a petition for remission of one's April 15, 2011 balance will do nothing to mitigate that issue.

In the highly unlikely case that the IRS does seek back taxes on prior-year player withdrawals, they won't grant amnesty to anyone who chooses to forgo the remission process, so players might as well file their remission claims, whether they paid taxes on prior withdrawals or not.

Now if the balance means so little that one would rather leave it 'non-constructively received' in the DOJ's hands than go through the effort of entering a number on a tax return to give a percentage to the IRS, that's a different issue.

While I agree with you regarding the payment of general creditors via remissions it may be important to at least note the US Code does allow owners and lien holders to file for remissions against forfeited properties, including money.

For those who don't know, the term lien holder in this type of case refers to a judgement creditor whose claim or debt is secured by a specific right to obtain satisfaction against the particular property subject to forfeiture. As an example Kentucky and Cardroom International have filed claims alleging a specific right of satisfaction against the forfeited monies. In order to move forward with remissions to victims the DOJ has, according to their own statements on the matter, set aside sufficient monies to pay these claims if a judicial judgement is granted.

The only impact I can see from these claims is the dilution of money presently available to pay out for victim remissions. I doubt either of these cases will have any appreciable impact on the issue of time for remissions payments to FTP player victims.

I spoke too soon.

Thanks for the clarification regarding certain lien holders, though I think if any such lien holders existed with respect to the forfeited property here we would have heard of it by now. I am also glad you pointed out that 2 claims are still outstanding against the property itself, though both of these seem to be in the final stages of resolution - I did not get into this level of detail primarily because the question seemed to center on whether these details would further delay the already too slow process, I am reassured to find that we agree they will likely not have that effect.

Skallagrim

If the DOJ was planning on stalling repayments until 2015 anyway, does it really make sense for them to be trying to hire a payment processor before 2013?

I don't think they'll do a full audit, but they probably will pass the info off to the IRS on balances that exceed a certain amount of money for potential audits.

IMHO the least likely "prediction" by the attorney in that article is that the DOJ plans to wait until Stars completes its payments before starting remission. It seems pretty clear to me, though admittedly it is not directly spelled out in the settlement agreement, that the first $225 million payment was $225 million precisely so the DOJ could begin and conduct the remission process without waiting for future payments from Stars.

Skallagrim

Not saying what this lawyer says is impossible, but lawyers are bar none the scum of the earth. For this guy to come out and act like he's the king **** and knows everything doesn't surprise me one bit.

What does surprise me is that he didn't have his number for all the poker players to call to hire him.

He definitely says you need to hire a lawyer to have a fighting shot at getting your money back. Same thing the DUI lawyers say around here.. YOU NEED ME.. guess what.. I know numerous people with DUI's and everyone of them got the same outcome whether they paid 10k for a lawyer or went in without one.

And the Claims Administrator announcement stated something about the full amount being immediately available.

+1

Every lawyer thinks they are indispensable.

They created a system though where you do need one. Good luck navigating the legal system without one.

Hey, lawyers are people too ... Some are very good people; some are the scum of the earth; most try to do what is right, many are more selfish than that. But that is true of almost all professions and groupings of people.

That said, it is true that the legal system operates in a manner that generally trends toward making the legal profession more and more necessary. And so today if you have a legal problem, you nearly always need some amount of help from a legal professional.

And so the legal profession has grown enormously since even the time I became a lawyer. A lot more lawyers means a lot more bad lawyers, but also a lot more good lawyers.

And so, finally, it is up to you, the legal consumer, to choose between what you hear from lawyers - and, of course, you will hear different things . Just never accept a legal opinion until you have researched the situation and the lawyer at least as much as you would when buying a new car.

Skallagrim

I also like the fact that he says you may need as much as 7 figures for it to be worth going after. Really.. a million? Why not make it a billion.

it's funny. i've been with the giant ftp thread since the beginning, and now it's spiritual successor (this one).... it's been almost 2 years, and the answers I have on when I am getting my ****ing money is still about the same: "who the **** knows?"

I am so depressed about this whole thing. I hate everyone involved, FTP, the DOJ, the bottom feeding scum sucking politicians trying to make sure they get their cut before even considering allowing online poker again, the hypocrites. I just want my money so I can just check out of this piece of **** country.

If you want to inform yourself about remissions and the remission process, a good start is to review the pamphlet at

http://www.justice.gov/usao/mn/pette...%20Process.pdf

You should also review 28 CFR part 9, particular sections 9.4 and 9.5, regarding the contents of petitions and the criteria for reviewing them. Several sites make these regulations available, law.justia.com has a very usable format, google, 28 CFR 9 and select the justia result.

Not all the digital space wasted, ink used or hot air published will change these requirements or standards of review and they are the ones that will be used. In a case with as many potential claimants as FTP, it is likely the administrator will prepare a form petition but a standard form is available from the DOJ or at http://www.scribd.com/doc/101141742/...ssion-Petition

well they lawyer gets a cut of what you receive doesnt he? I think he meant to say you have to 5+ figures in your account to be worth it for the lawyer, for the lawyer to want to go after it, but that probably wouldnt get him many clients

I see nothing about tax returns or bank statements. Do you?

I say we orchestrate a mass phone calling session to this number:

SDNY Civil Division
(212) 637-2800

If we could get as lilttle as 50-100 people to flood their phone lines with our concerns for an hour a week, maybe it would feel like we're making a difference. Even though we probably aren't doing anything

Look on the bright side: you could have already got an answer back that said, "No, you are not getting your money back ever."

We are getting our money back through the government because getting reimbursed is just and the government is there to ensure justice. If it wasn't just to get reimbursed then a just government would not be intending to reimburse. If the government is there to not provide justice, then it would be out of alignment with the constitution: we the people ... in order to ... establish justice ... do ordain and establish this constitution

Hi guys,

I'm an attorney, but I'm not here soliciting clients. I've got my own money stuck on FTP and I'm just trying to get my money back like the rest of you.

Here's the latest:

I called the number above, SDNY Civil Division (212) 637-2800.

I was referred to their press release division. A young lady there gave me a link to a website:

http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/vw_c...okerstars.html

When opened, it stated in relevant part:

United States v. Pokerstars et al., 11 Civ. 2564 (LBS)
(Full Tilt Poker Information)

November 20, 2012—Victim Update. The United States Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York is evaluating applicants for the position of Claims Administrator to handle petitions for remission for U.S. victims of the alleged fraud that Full Tilt Poker committed relating to player funds. The United States Attorney’s Office expects that the Claims Administrator will be selected and begin work in January 2013.

I was also given the number for their victim and witness coordinator, 866-874-8900.

Bottom line, looks like it will be January 2013 before they move on this and actually set up any sort of claim procedure. They're hiring attorneys for the positions now.

When I learn how to file a claim I'll post it here, pro bono. Hopefully you won't need a lawyer, although if you have a very large balance I would recommend hiring one.

Good Luck!

What would you consider a very large balance ?