lol at this. tc is a beast and certainly qualified to talk about hu

Expert opinion should be weighted more heavily than non-expert obviously. But opinion in itself is not convincing evidence. If OP had presented data to back up his annecdotal claims, that would be a different story. Him being employed by a coaching site and looking at solver outputs are not enough.

Even if kido was taking some gto bet sizings, as another poster has already mentioned, there is no way of knowing to a high degree of certainty whether or not the frequencies are same as recommended by a solver. Also, you cannot see non-showdown hands or mucked cards at showdown even which even further complicates the matter. I think Occam's Razor would suggest that a better explanation than kido = dream machine user is that kido actually did quite a bit of solver research and intergrated the information well.

I understand that kido has nothing to do with the bot ring at plo2000 and lower, these bots are not playing anywhere remotely close to equilibrium straetgies and nobody is accusing them of such.

Regarding the possiblity of a live advisor software existing, I think that it is possible but unlikely, given postflop complexity and the amount of computing resources needed in real-time. I don't think a equilibrium approximation strategy software is likely to exist at this time, but a program that that requires less resources and outputs a strategy far from equlibrium is more plausible.

i think there is an important clue in the fact that the alleged was only plying 40bb and leaving when he got deeper. Its very possible that this guy bought/created a comprehensive library of 40bb HU sims (which are the easiest the run) then made some kind of crude screen-scraping program that pulled up solutions from the most similar sims

i hear what your saying 666, i have watched a lot of OP's content and messaged him many times. IME he doesnt seem like the type who would lose money then start sifting through hand histories to confirm some deluded idea that he got cheated and try to get his money back (I dont think thats what your saying at all, but a lot of people on the thread have). I trust Mikesell and think there is something to this, after all he did write a book on monker sims centered around low SPR scenarios

I’ve lost a few thousand dollars to this cheat. What’s acr doing to his account? Anyone who complained about the account heard back yet?

4) OP took credit for being responsible for ACR eliminating hu tables and bragged about it.

https://www.runitonce.com/chatter/ac...-bot-kidopham/

Oh, well if OP took credit for it, then lets throw all reason out and go with that!

Of course, he has no idea either, since he also posted this in the same thread:

Anyway, I think I've answered your question and explained why I think it's ridiculous to assume that OP is solely responsible for the game being shut down. If you wish to continue to believe he definitely was, so be it.

The game you're thinking of is HU limit holdem. Been solved for years now. A HU Limit O8 solution is probably at least a decade away.

Anecdotal. I've played very high stakes O8 for decades and didn't seem him do anything unusual. He's just a very skilled HU O8 player. Could he also have a PLO shortstacking bot? It's possible, but occam's razor suggests it's more likely he simply knows the game of omaha very well.

You can sit here all day and say "Well humans don't play like the solvers" but it's entirely possible he arrived at a version of his game at 20bb that is indistinguishable from the solves purely by playing and improving.

You are right on the money. The thread has basically shed light on what actually happened. The cartel that was sharing the lobbies had someone that didn't want to play nice and share with the cartel, rather than sit and share, they got their lunch money taken.

Is Kido a bot? Maybe, maybe not. He's just as likely a bot as mikesall or TCfromUB who admittedly use solvers extensively as well. The cartel that was dominating the lobbies on ACR before kido came along have basically presented one argument, "trust me, I'm good at PLO and use software myself, I know". While they mostly admitted they could not prove it, just the possibility exists.

Sure, the possibility exists, but are you telling me kido was able to play multiple games on multiple stack sizes 2-6 tabling and the other regs couldn't even use their software on one table? Basically, what they are implying is Kido is from the future, with technology so powerful and a decade ahead of every other reg. If this actually happened, hope to god Kido is a good guy for the rest of humanity!

I don't mean live advisor as in live solving. The solutions are pre-solved, game state is read, and then it matches the game state to the solution.

Sure games like NL holdem, PLO and o8 aren't completely solved but there have been solvers who's abstractions are plenty good enough to beat humans for years.

No not at all, the things needed to accomplish what I believe Kido was doing have existed for years. This is what a large # of stars players were banned for doing. Using a program that matches game state to presolved PIO solutions and then displaying what PIO does in that circumstance.

You implied heavily he's been doing this in 2017 or before. It's 2019. How far ahead of the game could he be that in 2+ years not a single other reg or programmer or whoever has been able to accomplish this. All your argument is, is that it's possible for someone to be doing this, with no evidence whatsoever. Trust me, I'm sure it's frustrating losing to someone, but your argument is a weak one. You hint you know a lot more about botting that's going on and what others may have/are capable of, but you're singling out this one player. Just let it all out if know more.

Most the ppl in here defending kiddo , saying bots aren’t that sophisticated yet etc, are either using bots or live help themselves

If you're not cheating online then you're not doing it right

Just forget about hu poker, or even 6max cash. Find a game type with abundance of multiway pots, stack variation, icm considerations, etc. That's the only thing that might have decent longevity. If you think the technology to do what TC describes isn't there, or has been for years, you're just terribly naive. That's ok. It's probably not in the best interest of anyone to spoonfeed you how to make a bot on a public forum.

You are getting warm

only format that still has longevity is MTT

FWIW, I got a PM from a ACR rep here that it's proven that kidopham is not a bot.

Did they mention proven how?
Not saying it’s true or not but That seems to be acrs mo, just say no to anything negative

I don't think so. Mixed games are as healthy now as they were 10 yrs ago and as they will be 10 yrs from now

Yep, highstakes mixed just running round the clock 24/7 on stars...

Meanwhile they're oblivious to the bots at basically every stake of cash games. Glad to know at least 1 suspected account isn't a bot, now we just have to deal with the 100s of other bot accounts.

It's ****ing trivial to do what TC said... you have no idea what you are talking about. To make it easy for you to understand:


You do realize solvers have been spitting out close to GTO solutions for various spots for many YEARS publicly(who knows how long privately), correct?

You do realize you can save these solutions, correct?

that's the crux of this argument of if it's possible or not, if you admit the two up top its trivial, if you are disputing what I said above you can instantly be proven wrong...

Just so happens this kido pham specialized in a simple form of poker that made it easy to solve. Yet you dolts brand him as some PLO wizard that only sits there and plays on acr HU cap/short all day. Why didn't he grind the 50/100 rathole short? Could it be because the varying stack sizes made it harder to approx a gto from his sims? Nah, he was too busy waiting for action at 10/20 cap to deal with that, you're right... lmao.

Lastly... who ever said nobody else has done this? He gave you an example of people doing it years back on stars. It's easily doable and has been for quite some time.

Stars sucks now. They've sucked since they left the US market.

Live mixed games are as juicy as ever, go to the Bellagio, for example. Foxwoods, any weekend.

Can't even imagine how juicy the live mix games are over in like Russia, from how the Russians played in Vegas.

Or online sites like SWC which are carrying the torch, being EVERYTHING ACR is not.

To classify mixed games as dead because they don't run on RakeStars is just horribly misinformed.

Stop the fake news, nothing is running on SWC.

Let's ****in bet then, since you're such a ****in smart kid.

As much $ as you want. Escrowed. That more hands of mixed poker are played on SWC by the end of the month than on Stars.

****in little runt, crawl back into whatever hole you came from, that's what I thought, you little ****in punk.

Talking without ANYTHING to back it up. Kids these days....

Yeah micro stakes... who cares? I'd hardly call it a "healthy game".

Currently: 142 people signed on... lmao... you're a clown