Have answered question to above question here and to their staff. Live support spoke to his supervisor on chat. I offered to pay the rake amount needed straight up and this was declined. If i rake 100 bucks its not like i can even cadhout 100 bucks. All rake must be paid before i can cashout anyrhing.

Did you use the bonus code "ALEC"?

FWIW, the Chico Network requires 100%. [BetOnline, Tiger Gaming, Pay No Rake (not sure how you clear 100% on a site where you pay no rake )]

Likely not doing many cashouts if you get 100% rb on there

I did not, no bonus of any kind involved.

putting fees in place would be totally reasonable.

what ACR does cannot even be compared to this, it is simply outrageous and borderline theft (keep in mind its not even stated in TERMS OF SERVICE)

Assuming everything you said is accurate with regard to your play, the fact is that this type of playthrough is pretty standard in the industry these days, given the costs of the transactions. Yeah, you are willing to pay the fees, but if they change their rules for you then they have to change it for everyone.

I have an affiliate with Black Chip (skin on Winning) and none of the hundreds of players in it have had your issue, even those that got lucky in an MTT early in their play that they then withdrew. Like it or not, your pattern of moving large sums on and off the sites is something that is being clamped down hard by all sites.

I know for Intertops (also an affiliate) I actually chose not to sign up some high buy in heads up players, because I realized they could very well get into your situation where they deposit a large amount (the sites like that in concept), win a large amount at high buy in games that rarely run, and then have a cashout refused due to a lack of volume of play. That would require guys who normally play $500+ games to have to sit in 20 buck games to generate rake to do a withdraw. The best thing was to just have them not play there, which seems counter-intuitive at first glance.

Your situation has a small amount of sympathy, but realistically your only way out of it is to properly rake the amount you need to rake. After that cash out and uninstall it if you prefer.

I needed to send documents three times. After the 2nd time i split them in two emails as they asked me to, though the 1st time the email wasnt too big. They verified they had got them, but then they were not found later and they said they will email me when they have got it clear, after i send the documents the 3rd time. They never did email me. Wouldnt be surprised if they would ask me about the documents the 4th time and promise to email me when they have got them, but then no email or i will make a cashout and they say they need the documents.

10% to wallets, i dont know what the costs in and or out are. At least stars says the high limit players cost them a lot there, and party has or had their maybe 3% out i think. I think Juicy has 10% or more. If one pays it without raking, it should be fine, but it might need some security level person, but is no technical issue if one can tranfer money. I used it at some place for some reason i cant remember, where they asked to leave to cost amount and cashout the rest, so it was no technical issue for them to get that money out of my account.

This just isn't true. I deposited around $500 on there and played low but consistant volume over a few months. They let cash out with no questions asked and I didn't get close to paying 100% of my deposit in rake. They probably initiate that clause for people that deposit then try to cash out relatively quickly.

Maybe you got lucky.

It was discussed and (iirc) confirmed by a rep in the BetOnline thread (Internet Poker forum).
forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/betonline-bol-discussion-cashout-issues-1127225/

From http://www.betonline.ag/rules#general :


You can withdraw any winnings that exceed the deposit amount prior to clearing the rollover.

Fun for recs is just marketing for poker sites. They mean more net losing depositors and more players in general that don't take money off the sites

But, I didn't mean 10 hours in one day. I just meant that many will probably find it reasonable to have to play 10 hours of poker after they deposit in order to cashout that deposit. Poker isn't (and hasn't been) about playing a few hours one time, getting lucky then quitting. Sites aren't really all that interested in having people deposit, play 1-2 hours, then cashout in full and nobody would ever recommend doing that.

I agree that there are better ways, but I don't think the status quo is terrible here.

If you have the habit of depositing a lot on a new account to try to pick off a single fish at high stakes then cashing out entirely when you win, it's not really a sustainable strategy. Most comparable sites are going to treat you the same as ACR, some better, some worse.

If they paid 6.6% fees on your deposits, that means it cost them $1,000 for you to get that 15k on the site. Would you pay 1k minimum to take that money off today even if they let you?

But again, their goal is to get you to play poker, not deposit huge amounts and withdrawal them instantly on a new account.

I don't find the software argument compelling because you kept redepositing as you were losing. You didn't want to quit until you fleeced the fish.

I think your best argument here is that they may not have had a clear policy published, but since their policy isn't out of the ordinary, it's hard to say that the argument is enough to say you're right here.

A fee might be a decent solution, but poker rooms just want people to play poker, not jump on and off and calculate what fees make it +EV to deposit a big amount to bumhunt a few fish then cashout.

Haha, well played.

I see it differently, your p.o.v works for a reg or room's p.o.v, no doubt, but someone who is just introduced to poker or a long term loser who already made tons of deposits might not understand it that way.

When I first started to play poker my biggest concern was to see if as soon as I won something if I was able to withdraw the money, at the time, the simple fact that I had to give copies of my documents left me furious and distrusting towards the site, if you add this additonal layer it will make it worse for beginers. Players will feel that the site is making every possible angle to keep their 20$, and they will many times just give up midway. And we lose one more fish like that.

Like I said in previous threads, I believe TRUST is the key to online poker, poker rooms dont look like honest businesses and people who r less informed just give up because they see no value. They end up prefering land casinos. Land casinos arent dying any time soon.

It makes total sense for a poker room to worry about their image and ability to cashout long term losing depositors. It doesn't make a lot of sense to facilitate pros jumping in to snipe one bad opponent at a lower raked game then cashing out instantly once he's made enough and claiming the software sucks so screw that site (when he redeposited 2x after losing).

There are plenty of scenarios where a winning OP was sympathized with and the card room looks bad. But I don't think any of those scenarios are what the OP is claiming happened to him. The policy applied to the OP's situation seems reasonable. If applied to every single situation ever on the site without exception, there are probably some issues.

I even offered to pay them 2k straight up + whatever fee costs for my deposit and withdrawals. Declined immediately. Pretty obvious as someone said earlier they just want the 15k end up as rake at some point. I planned on staying on the site and its not just the software itself that is a problem.. i have lost money dude to disconnetcs and tables closing randomly in the middle of hands with no warning. When i talk to support about it they are either clueless or act dumb and lie. At some points i also couldnt access alot of tabs etc. I know im not the only one who had these and other problems, their support thread on here are literally bombarded with complaints about unreliable software.

Chip duuump

OP, why don't you post this in the ACR thread in the Internet Poker forums? You are more likely to get some better feedback from at least an affiliate and maybe even an ACR spokesperson.

I will say that I also think this is total crap since it is not in their TOS. All the rationalizations others have said are pretty pointless to me. They did not list this as one of their requirements and had you known you might not have deposited with them, or if you had at least you would know what you were required to do to withdraw.

forumserver.twoplustwo.com/218/winning-poker-network/black-chip-poker-10-rake-rule-before-withdrawing-1568659/

Thank you for the link. I looked to see if the OP started one of there, but didn't go back past the first page.

The other guy who started the link you sent is getting torched by a bunch of idiots/shills for BCP. It's sad that there are so many people who don't care about holding sites accountable and expecting more out of them.

I think a 5-10% rake requirement is perfectly reasonable for a site to enforce, though depositing a large amount through a low cost option like Bitcoin should probably be less than 10%. This is how 75%+ of all online gambling businesses function, whether poker, sportsbetting, or casinos. You'd be amazed how many angle-shooting super nits would constantly deposit and cashout for stuff like 1-2% credit card or skrill cashback.

The better sites, however, will consider granting exceptions to the policy as a token of good will in reasonable circumstances.

But even with what I've just said, I agree completely with the poster I've quoted above. It absolutely needs to at minimum be listed in the terms of service, or it really should not be enforced until that's changed (and not be enforced retro-actively). Casino sites that operate on hidden/invisible terms are considered scummy/untrustworthy, and the same should apply to poker sites.

I generally like ACR, despite some very significant flaws, but it seems they like to get a bit stretchy with the truth sometimes (such as claiming that four $500k tournaments is the same as two $1 million guarantees, rather than being honest that they couldn't afford to keep blowing $200k a week on overlays.)

Yeah I am not sure about this high cost of processors everyone is referring to on a site that takes BTC? Is the credit card fee that high for ACR on deposits? If so, can't they just advise customers to deposit with BTC?