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Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16)

04-03-2016 , 03:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstock
I disagree. The world is not strictly black and white, a lot of grey in there.

Derail: Back in the 80's there was this case in Louisiana where the guy's 10 yr old son was kidnapped by his karate instructor. They caught the guy and the kid in California a couple of weeks later. They flew him back to La. While walking through the airport, the kid's father is pretending to be on a pay phone. He turns, shoots and kills the suspect.

Rule of Law: without a doubt it was first degree premeditated murder. The type of crime that could get someone the death penalty.

The guys takes a plea deal and receives probation. Guess the prosecution thought it would be hard to get 12 people and no fathers on a jury.

But that is a bad example IMO.
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-03-2016 , 03:58 AM
From http://fija.org/

If you are called for Jury Duty
Don't worry! Be happy! Look at jury service as an opportunity to "do good" for yourself and others. It's your chance to help the justice system deliver justice, which is absolutely
essential to a free society.

Also, you can do more "political good" as a juror than in practically any other way as a
citizen: your vote on the verdict is also a measure of public opinion on the law itself--an
opinion which our lawmakers are likely to take seriously. Short of being elected to office
yourself, you may never otherwise have a more powerful impact on the rules we live by
than you will as a trial juror.

However, unless you are fully informed of your powers as a juror, you may be manipulated by the less powerful players in the courtroom into delivering the verdict they want, instead of what justice would require. That is why this was written--to give you information that you're not likely to receive from the attorneys, or even from the judge.

Justice may depend upon your being chosen to serve, so here are some "words to the wise" about how to make it through voir dire, the jury selection process: You may feel that answering some of the questions asked of you would compromise your right to privacy. If you refuse to answer them, it will probably cost you your chance to serve.

Likewise, if you "talk too much"--especially if you admit to knowing your rights and powers as a juror, as explained below, or that you have qualms about the law itself in the case at hand, or reveal that you're bright, educated, or are interested in serving! So, from voir dire to verdict, let your conscience be your guide.

Nothing in the U.S. Constitution or in any Supreme Court decision requires jurors to take an oath to follow the law as the judge explains it or, for that matter, authorizes the judge to "instruct" the jury at all. Judges provide their interpretation of the law, but you may also doyour o wn thinking. Keep in mind that no juror's oath is enforceable, and that you may regard all "instructions" as advice.

Understanding the full context in which an illegal act was committed is essential to
deciding whether the defendant acted rightly or wrongly. Strict application of the law may
produce a guilty verdict, but what about justice? If the jurors agree that, beyond a
reasonable doubt, the accused did act as charged, then "context becomes everything" in
reaching a verdict you can live with. Credit or blame for the verdict will go to you, so be
sure to ask the judge how you can pose questions to witnesses, so that you can learn the
complete context, should the lawyers fail to bring it out.

When they believe justice requires it, jurors can refuse to apply the law. Jurors have the
power to consider whether the law itself is wrong (including whether it is "unconstitutional"), or is being applied for political reasons. Is the defendant being singled out as "an example" in order to demonstrate government muscle? Were the defendant's constitutional rights violated during the arrest? Much of today's "crime wave" consists of victimless crimes--crimes against the state, or "political crimes", so if you feel that a verdict of guilty would give the government too much power, or help keep a bad law alive, just remember that you can refuse to apply any law that violates your conscience.

Prosecutors often "multiply charges" so the jury will assume the defendant "must be guilty of something". But one of the great mistakes a jury can make is to betray both truth and conscience by compromising. If you believe the defendant is not guilty of anything, then vote "not guilty" on all counts.

You can't be punished for voting according to your conscience. Judges (and other jurors) often pressure hold-out jurors into abandoning their true feelings and voting with the majority "...to avoid the expense of a hung jury and mistrial". But you don't have to give in.

Why? Because...
Hung juries are "OKAY". If voting your conscience should lead to a hung jury, not to worry, you're doing the responsible thing. There is no requirement that you must reach a verdict. And the jury you hang may be significant as one of a series of hung juries sending messages to the legislature that the law you're working with has problems, and it's time for a change.

If you want to reach consensus, however, one possible way is to remind your fellow jurors that...
Jurors have the power to reduce charges against the defendant, provided that "lesser
included offenses" exist in law (ask the judge to list and explain them, and the range of
potential punishments that go with each). Finding guilt at a lower level than charged can
be appropriate in cases where the defendant has indeed victimized someone, but not so
seriously as the original charges would indicate. And, if it will be up to the judge to decide the sentence, it's within the power of the jury to find the defendant guilty of a reduced charge which will, at most, entail the amount of punishment it thinks is appropriate.

The Jury Power Page hopes the above information helps you to find a verdict that you
believe is conscientious and just, a verdict which you can therefore be proud to discuss
with friends, family, legal professionals, the community or the media, should any of them
want to know what happened, how, and why.
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-03-2016 , 05:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 953757584922009
What can be the consequences of a class action ? I don't knnow anything about all this. Does it change anything regarding the security of our bankrolls ?
I have friends who cashed out big parts of ther rolls and I have no idea if it makes sense or just paranoia.
No brag here but I'm worried because I have a pretty massive bankroll.
Someone earlier, might have been Microroller, wondered out loud if the players were the investor group that Baazov was planning to lead on a bid attempt. While its lol funny, I wouldn't quite call it a joke. That should give you some idea of what you're dealing with.
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-03-2016 , 05:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 953757584922009
What can be the consequences of a class action ? I don't knnow anything about all this. Does it change anything regarding the security of our bankrolls ?
I have friends who cashed out big parts of ther rolls and I have no idea if it makes sense or just paranoia.
No brag here but I'm worried because I have a pretty massive bankroll.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848
Someone earlier, might have been Microroller, wondered out loud if the players were the investor group that Baazov was planning to lead on a bid attempt. While its lol funny, I wouldn't quite call it a joke. That should give you some idea of what you're dealing with.
I honestly have no idea how your post is a response to his question. Obviously, Baazov's plan for a bid attempt did not include the "players" as the rest of the investment group. Actually, at this point, I wonder if there ever actually was a "rest of the investment group". But I don't see how that has anything to do with the question. Maybe you quoted the wrong post?
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-03-2016 , 06:23 AM
What's the name of the institution currently managing the trust account for player funds? I couldn't find it anywhere on their site.
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-03-2016 , 06:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05
I honestly have no idea how your post is a response to his question. Obviously, Baazov's plan for a bid attempt did not include the "players" as the rest of the investment group. Actually, at this point, I wonder if there ever actually was a "rest of the investment group". But I don't see how that has anything to do with the question. Maybe you quoted the wrong post?
The fact that dipping into restricted player deposits to fund a buyout is not out of the realm of possibility with these guys.
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-03-2016 , 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LektorAJ
What's the name of the institution currently managing the trust account for player funds? I couldn't find it anywhere on their site.
AaandItsGone Inc.
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-03-2016 , 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by metza
AaandItsGone Inc.
Dewey, Cheatem and Howe, Ltd.
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-03-2016 , 10:14 AM
First class Geezer.
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-03-2016 , 11:30 AM
Everything I've heard about Baazov shows he doesn't understand poker at all and views this just as a money printing gambling casino. Amaya has probably viewed the data showing that most of their regular players are people with accounts ~10 years old and that everyone is a sucker who will stay regardless(Or he hasn't even thought that much and it's just a pump and dump). He's being very naive about that, people have stayed so long because it's been the biggest and best for so long. The sooner new management is in charge the better for both players and PokerStars.


I often play now with more other sites' tables up than Stars tables, that hasn't happened in a very long time.
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-03-2016 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnNashJr
Welcome to America we rule this Country
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...e_iOSApp_Other
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-03-2016 , 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDefiniteArticle
It's a flagrant violation of the rule of law.
Juries are part of the system of law.
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-03-2016 , 05:47 PM
There is a big difference between filings in Canada versus America. As you can imagine, Canada has more lax requirements, contributing to a major distrust of the various indexes in Canada.

So, if the Americans are going after him, he has a MUCH bigger mountain to climb, if it's Canada, he's probably safe and some quick greasing of hands will make this go away, as is the Canadian centralized government way.

To give you an example of the corrupt and inept system, Canada over a 15 year period was the at the absolute bottom in terms of federal bribery charges in the entire G20 (not surprisingly, considering our heritage, England was second worst), with a total of TWO charges laid by the RCMP over this lengthy period. In comparison, America was number one by a long margin, some of the "whos who" of big business pursued by the FBI, France was second in the list of those protecting investors, citizens and national reputation from seedy tactics.
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-04-2016 , 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyfry2
To give you an example of the corrupt and inept system, Canada over a 15 year period was the at the absolute bottom in terms of federal bribery charges in the entire G20 (not surprisingly, considering our heritage, England was second worst), with a total of TWO charges laid by the RCMP over this lengthy period. In comparison, America was number one by a long margin, some of the "whos who" of big business pursued by the FBI, France was second in the list of those protecting investors, citizens and national reputation from seedy tactics.
I'm not at all convinced by the hypothesis that fewer bribery charges means more bribery is going on.
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-04-2016 , 10:44 AM
Maybe we can give the criminality / standard of proof theoretical stuff a rest for a while and get this thread back on track.
Saw today that NYX sold off Ongame to an unidentified European party. Terms not disclosed as far as i can tell (though they surely must be somewhere since NYX is public)?

I'd like to know how the all the Amaya / NYX / Ongame math shakes out, since Ongame is frequently referenced as indicative of Baazov's prior results in operating an online poker company, but the nature of that ownership and whether Amaya turned a profit on it is muddied by opaque documentation surrounding its acquisition/sale. Anyone shed some light?
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-04-2016 , 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monorail
Maybe we can give the criminality / standard of proof theoretical stuff a rest for a while and get this thread back on track.
Saw today that NYX sold off Ongame to an unidentified European party. Terms not disclosed as far as i can tell (though they surely must be somewhere since NYX is public)?

I'd like to know how the all the Amaya / NYX / Ongame math shakes out, since Ongame is frequently referenced as indicative of Baazov's prior results in operating an online poker company, but the nature of that ownership and whether Amaya turned a profit on it is muddied by opaque documentation surrounding its acquisition/sale. Anyone shed some light?
Well OnGame is one deal.

Try to figure out the deal with Cadillac Jack. Amaya bought it for "about $177 million in 2012". They then sold it in 2015 for $375 million to "an affiliate of private equity firm Apollo Global Management (APO.N)".

I checked their website and there is no news since the deal in 2015.

http://www.cadillacjack.com/NewsEvents/News.aspx

Just reading through some of their web content, it seems like a kindof sleepy firm, just supplying gaming machines. Not the type of boom company that suddenly doubles it's value in 3 years. As for AGS, the new owner, well seems like a legit company there, so what's the 'affilliate' stuff about.

So well, I can't figure out the maths on this one either. All these deals that seem insanely profitable. I find it hard to believe Amaya could actually double $175m in 3 years given they apparently had little background in the gaming industry (Celebrity Tan?) and from current experience of how they massively overpaid for Stars and are proceeding to run the site down.

Weird. It's like enormous amounts of money from thin air.
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-04-2016 , 01:20 PM
Part of that Ongame math was NYX had to pay Amaya 8 times 2015 EBITDA, but that number was almost certainly negative (it'd be nice to know if NYX just had to pay zero, or if the terms mean they actually got paid).

Also, NYX was given an option to purchase certain of Amaya's software library (which they did exercise, then leasing it back to Amaya for a 7 (?) year-term). NYX also received a $10 million debenture loan, that could be converted by Amaya into NYX stock (that stock amount = ~$4 million at IPO shortly thereafter).

So, NYX got a seemingly favorable $10 million loan, had to "pay" an amount (likely 0), and got an option on a SW purchase + leaseback. Plus whatever they got (likely not much) on the resale.
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-04-2016 , 01:30 PM
Not sure how this will affect the buyout, but there is a rumor out that Drexel Burnham and Merrill Lynch will be merging into one company.

The new firm will named Burnham and Lyncham.
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-04-2016 , 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bot01101
Not sure how this will affect the buyout, but there is a rumor out that Drexel Burnham and Merrill Lynch will be merging into one company.

The new firm will named Burnham and Lyncham.
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-04-2016 , 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S
"haaaaaaa"
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-04-2016 , 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramps
Part of that Ongame math was NYX had to pay Amaya 8 times 2015 EBITDA, but that number was almost certainly negative (it'd be nice to know if NYX just had to pay zero, or if the terms mean they actually got paid).

Also, NYX was given an option to purchase certain of Amaya's software library (which they did exercise, then leasing it back to Amaya for a 7 (?) year-term). NYX also received a $10 million debenture loan, that could be converted by Amaya into NYX stock (that stock amount = ~$4 million at IPO shortly thereafter).

So, NYX got a seemingly favorable $10 million loan, had to "pay" an amount (likely 0), and got an option on a SW purchase + leaseback. Plus whatever they got (likely not much) on the resale.
Appears the option NYX exercised to buy Chartwell/Cryptologic provided for a 6-year lease-back by Amaya (i.e. they sold software libraries to NYX, with an agreement to re-license it from the new owner), with a minimum guarantee of $12 million/year for the 1st 3 years of the lease. This for $150 million ($110 million in $$ plus $40 million worth of a debenture loan convertible into NYX stock).

Even Amaya's more seemingly standard deals always have layers of confusion for outside eyes. And giving NYX more time to consider/negotiate terms of/follow through on this deal (their option) had to have some tangible $$ value in the Ongame deal.
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-05-2016 , 02:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JudgeHoldem1848
Someone earlier, might have been Microroller, wondered out loud if the players were the investor group that Baazov was planning to lead on a bid attempt. While its lol funny, I wouldn't quite call it a joke. That should give you some idea of what you're dealing with.
I would.
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-05-2016 , 02:28 AM
What exactly is the relationship between Amaya and Intertain?

On page 20 of Intertain's 2015 annual report, it shows $10,661,000 as being receivable from Amaya. It also shows $15m receivable from GameSys, another company associated with Amaya (senior people joining GameSys from Amaya).

Amaya is also Intertain's largest shareholder.

From the annual report, Intertain lost $225m last year (page 5). What's going on with all these online gaming companies? They seem to be inter-related at many levels.

http://intertain.com/2016/03/09/inte...tements-notes/
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-05-2016 , 03:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroRoller
I would.
So you intended but I really don't think you can say with certainty that these guys are above raiding escrow to fund their next romp. 20:1 against? Sure, but not 100%, no way.
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote
04-05-2016 , 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFan
Well OnGame is one deal.

Try to figure out the deal with Cadillac Jack. Amaya bought it for "about $177 million in 2012". They then sold it in 2015 for $375 million to "an affiliate of private equity firm Apollo Global Management (APO.N)".

I checked their website and there is no news since the deal in 2015.

http://www.cadillacjack.com/NewsEvents/News.aspx

Just reading through some of their web content, it seems like a kindof sleepy firm, just supplying gaming machines. Not the type of boom company that suddenly doubles it's value in 3 years. As for AGS, the new owner, well seems like a legit company there, so what's the 'affilliate' stuff about.

So well, I can't figure out the maths on this one either. All these deals that seem insanely profitable. I find it hard to believe Amaya could actually double $175m in 3 years given they apparently had little background in the gaming industry (Celebrity Tan?) and from current experience of how they massively overpaid for Stars and are proceeding to run the site down.

Weird. It's like enormous amounts of money from thin air.
Cadillac Jack was at the time of the original sale a welll-run, well-regarded company. If their management was retained, and hands off from Baazov, it could have done well post-sale ..... but I have no real knowledge.

btw, money can be made out of "thin air", if someone is willing to pay $X for something bought previously for $Y, where X>Y.

(My favorite "deal" was when Bally paid $20MM+ to Alex Dreyfus for his "poker company/platform" at a time when it did not even own poker software and was licensing it from a third party. What Bally bought was a backend and platform worth maybe $1 million.)
Amaya CEO David Baazov charged with insider trading (3/23), steps down as CEO (3/29/16) Quote

      
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