He actually had T9

BTW, fold pre and fold pre again.

10NL is micros? This is good stuff. I'm taking notes on everything!

The victim of the nigerian scam gets compensated, because that is illegal.

The play under discussion is close to illegal, but the floor didn't do anything, so it was legal (it obviously shouldn't have been).

Mistakes when playing poker cost you money. Victim made two mistakes, he didn't ask stack size and he blew whatever fold equity he had by advertising a weak hand.

How am I supporting cheating?

Has Torelli been a massive POS? Yep. Do I feel really sorry for DW? Defo, I did very similar thing ~8 years ago in vegas and still tilting about it now.

The fact remains, you must ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS get verbal confirmation that your approximation of an opponents stack is correct before announcing you're all in. Do that, and you protect yourself from these shenanigans 100%.

But people disagree, which is fine. I think we should all be a bit more realistic though, people will try this stuff and if you want to be victim to it, you can. Can promise you one thing though, will never happen to me.

Has nothing to do with cheating or not cheating.

A poker player has feelings.
Losing AA vs KK hurts but its variance and we understand that as players (losing & winning players understand this)
Get ready for a boring gay & long story.
---------
You might think im gay after this story but i don't care. It was my first time going to Las Vegas for one week. And how horrible, and stupid did I feel after this.

I decided to move to one week to Las Vegas to just forget everything about the world.(and celebrate my 25th birthday in a special kind of way)
I have met so many nice Americans in the Golden Nugget that i was shocked that this event happened to me.
I met this one old reg (very good player) who out-skilled me in all the mixed games & hold em. I played vs him for 3-4 days straight in mtt's and hold em cash games.
The day it was my birthday, he fukking knew it was my birthday and I even asked him if he wanted to get a drink or eat something(because i had no friends there and i knew nothing about Las Vegas). He said sure he would love too!

A few moments later a 1-2 game opened, and we started to play.
He announced to the table that he would play a hand blind (the crazy maniac!)
He raised it up the 10, i cant remember what i had but i turned 2 pair. The pot was perhaps 30-40+- and he said im 'all in'. I just tanked for 3 minutes, because we were over 150 bb deep. We talk and he swore to me that he never looked at his hand! And i told him ''i have a feeling you have the nuts''. He kept on swearing to god and his country he did not look at his hand at all. The fukking dumb ass I was I called. He showed the nut straight. I took it like a man, and just took the rest of my chips. Left to cash out. I planned on going back to my room and cry it out, but that guy came after me and said im sorry i did that bla bla bla, he gave me back 200$ of the 400$. And said 'no hard feelings ok bud'.

Sure thing i said, as the tears started to come out of my eyes.


Yeah **** angle shooters.
(small edit: i spoke the day after with the floor about this, and he said that if that happened the person would get banned from the casino and the money he will keep since he won it fair and square, but his attitude would get him a ban)(the Golden Nugget)
(another edit: not all regs were like this, some who spoke to me after this told me how horrible they felt for me)

Of course he lied! This is poker, belg_owner! What do you think this is?

Slightly annoying it's been almost 10 days since the coming soon, well worth the wait comment from Alec. Reminds me of when Tom Dwan was going to reveal his big problem with Full Tilt then afks for life.

Most likely the guy hadn't looked and you just got really really unlucky. Sounds like an amazing guy to accept your bullying of him by owning the angleshooter label even though he did nothing wrong and still give you money for your birthday when he didn't even know you that well.

Confirmed gay.

+1



in his defense to the table he said '' I swore i did not look at my hand before the flop bla bla bla''

it was only 200 in the end.

How do u think it would feel to get angled for 10k

Ahh, the old "I'm blind I swear I'm blind hustle" don't worry that's right of passage into gambling that you caught in that trap.

I've read in this thread that the players were supposed to inform production staff regarding their add-ons so they could keep the stack sizes correct when creating the broadcast. I don't know what the procedure was but if it was loud, like players calling out to someone away from the table and if others had done this a couple times over the last while, the "victim" would have especial reason to be confident that he had a good idea of the "cheaters'" stack size. This is a speculation but if approximately true I think we can blame the "victim" significantly less.

So when you limp-shove over, say a loose button raise and a sketchy BB squeeze 3-bet, you always always ALWAYS first verbally verify the stacks of not just both raisers but also the four limpers with live hands behind you? Sounds like fun for all.

Wolfe said they had been playing for four hours and he thought he knew Alec's stack. Yeah he should have asked, but he shouldn't get any criticism at all for not asking imo.

Also, it looks like in the video that the other straddler Morrow leans over and spots the chips before folding (:51 in the OP video). If he did, he should have also said something right then.

Imagine this scenario: A wealthy guy is going 60mph in a school zone because he's late for work, even though he lives down street and clearly knows the speed limit is 25mph. He hits and badly injures a kid who stepped into the street; the kid wasn't used to cars approaching that quickly in a school zone.

An overgrown tree is partially covering the speed limit sign, so the guy is using that to justify speeding even though he obviously knew what the speed limit was. The judge lets him off the hook and even rewards him 20k to repair his Ferrari. The repair only costs 10k. The community is disgusted and suggests the wealthy guy at least give the extra 10k to the kid for his medical bills.

And now you're the broke homeless degen in the community who's saying, "Make the wealthy guy give up the 10k! But don't give the 10k to the kid, give the 10k to a charity! The stupid kid should've been more careful and needs to be punished for his mistake!"

your playing for hours you know what everyones stack is within $1000, your supposed to inform production staff when you add on then all of a sudden a guy pulls out $10, 000 out nowhere when you're all in!?!? i'm straight up fighting a guy like Alec clownerrilli if he thinks he could chump me like that and dollar amount wouldn't matter if it was $100 & a punk like him tried to pull a fast 1 like that & cheat me i'm breaking his nose

And then he sues you for every dime you have and laughs all the way to the bank.

Do you keyboard warriors ever realize how idiotic you sound when you make these ridiculous statements about physically assaulting someone?

That happens to me every month for 10k...by the same guy. You get used to it.

Analogies are not arguments.

Do you also blame rape victims for wearing revealing clothing?

They can be by providing another perspective. He used his Nigerian scammer analogy as an argument, I used mine.

tl;dr

Why are you even trying to discuss with me, Mr-Who-Judges-People-By-The-Subforums-They-Posted-In-Years-Ago-While-He-Himself-Was-Still-Wearing-Dipers?

That is a ridiculous analogy, it's not remotely the same thing. I'm not blaming DW I'm simply telling you all that you can very easily make it so that you never fall for this trick in your life.

I'm not blaming DW, and I can very much understand how the mistake has been made and as i've said 50x we've all been there. It's an important lesson to make.

I think all your points are spot on, and lots of things should have stopped DW from losing this pot like this, but unfortunately you have to look after yourself

In regards to your example, that sounds like a tournament scenario (or you'd likely have a short-stack if that was in a cash game) where people can not really go north or south. I'm really referring to deep-stacked cash games where you can make mistakes that are for 200big blinds not 10-30 like in a tournament. If your physical stack is $25,000 (500bb), then have to be mindful that a mistake could, in this moment, cost you $25,000(500bb) which is a very expensive mistake. It's in this scenario that I advise ALWAYS taking an extra 3-5 seconds and be sure how much you're betting.

well this thread went from great to terrible pretty quicky

Meanwhile all is quiet on the Alec Torelli Twitter front. He curled up and waits until this all blows over?