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Writing Survey Questions Carefully: A Cautionary Tale Writing Survey Questions Carefully: A Cautionary Tale

09-08-2019 , 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman
This disingenuous nonsense is really amazing.

Quite some discourse here.
Who is being disingenuous?
Random people who show up to start calling others disingenuous?
09-08-2019 , 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
I give up. The question did not ask better than poor people. You assumed that it was inferring that. That's what this entire conversation is about.
I give up. The question did not ask better than they currently have. You assumed that it was inferring that. That's what this entire conversation is about.

Edit: To be clear, you are making just as big an inference with your position. In context your inference is actually far less logical than the "than the poor" inference.
09-08-2019 , 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
I give up. The question did not ask better than poor people. You assumed that it was inferring that. That's what this entire conversation is about.
And you assumed it was implying something else, but you imagined that your interpretation was simply the literal reading. You were demonstrably wrong about that. All the evidence to show that is present and has been explained. You were also obviously wrong in your interpretation, but that requires some insight and can't be proven like a mathematical theorem.
09-08-2019 , 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd
I give up. The question did not ask better than they currently have. You assumed that it was inferring that. That's what this entire conversation is about.

Edit: To be clear, you are making just as big an inference with your position. In context your inference is actually far less logical than the "than the poor" inference.
Quote:
Those with the ability to pay should have access to higher standards of medical care.

If I think everyone should get better health care, I'm not even considering what the current standard is, it should always be better. No assumption needed to answer that question, if I have that moral imperative.
09-08-2019 , 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
It's testing cognitive bias, not contextual bias. It's not trying to extrapolate the cognitive bias.
Can you explain the difference here between cognitive and contextual bias as it would apply here. Contextual bias isn't a term I'm familiar with.

Last edited by Luckbox Inc; 09-08-2019 at 03:51 PM.
09-08-2019 , 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
If I think everyone should get better health care, I'm not even considering what the current standard is, it should always be better.
Better than what?
09-08-2019 , 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd
If the people who wrote the quiz and 99% of people taking the quiz have the same interpretation, why do you think you are the person who has the "correct" interpretation? Your inability to draw inferences from context doesn't make the strictly literal but illogical in context version correct.
Isn't he libertarian? IME they defend against this line by essentially claiming they're Neo who can see the matrix while we sheeple continue on blind to what's actually going on.

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09-08-2019 , 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
If I think everyone should get better health care, I'm not even considering what the current standard is, it should always be better. No assumption needed to answer that question, if I have that moral imperative.
It's possible to both think that everyone should get better health care [than current standard] and that people should not be able to pay for better health care [than people who can't afford to pay]. Given the question could theoretically be asking either and both require an assumption then we are reliant on context to determine what it's actually asking and in this case the latter is the far more logical conclusion.

The questions "Should everyone get better health care" and "Should people be able to pay for better health care" have completely different logical assumptions about what is being asked. You don't seem to grasp that the important context for the latter question is clearly the ability to pay and therefore the logical comparison is with people who don't have the ability to pay.
09-08-2019 , 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
Can you explain the difference here between cognitive and contextual bias as it would apply here. Contextual bias isn't a term I've familiar with.
Quote:
On a more unconscious level, cognitive bias occurs when people tend to see what they expect to see.

Quote:
Contextual bias occurs when well-intentioned experts are vulnerable to making erroneous. decisions by extraneous influences. Objectivity is hampered as the extraneous influences can. cause experts to subconsciously develop expectations about the outcome of an examination.


Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
Better than what?
Does not matter, at least for the third time. Health care is not perfect, should always get better, no matter what the current circumstance is. If you do not understand that, fine, but stop asking the question. I've answered it.
09-08-2019 , 03:45 PM
"Does not matter" is very much not answering the question.

"should always get better"

Better than what?
09-08-2019 , 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd
It's possible to both think that everyone should get better health care [than current standard] and that people should not be able to pay for better health care [than people who can't afford to pay]. Given the question could theoretically be asking either and both require an assumption then we are reliant on context to determine what it's actually asking and in this case the latter is the far more logical conclusion.

The questions "Should everyone get better health care" and "Should people be able to pay for better health care" have completely different logical assumptions about what is being asked. You don't seem to grasp that the important context for the latter question is clearly the ability to pay and therefore the logical comparison is with people who don't have the ability to pay.
You know, I'm not even saying it's unreasonable to assume the inference. The questions is designed to see if you to draw that inference, in a certain respect.
09-08-2019 , 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
"Does not matter" is very much not answering the question.

"should always get better"

Better than what?
So, the guy who says it's a perfectly logical inference, and is arguing with me about interpretations, can't infer, or literally interpret what this means:

Quote:
no matter what the current circumstance is
Right.

Last edited by itshotinvegas; 09-08-2019 at 03:53 PM.
09-08-2019 , 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
Can you explain the difference here between cognitive and contextual bias as it would apply here. Contextual bias isn't a term I'm familiar with.
Ok. Then I think I understand your position. Because I see the question as one between Idealism vs Realism--that is contextual bias.
Whereas you don't think it's asking that. I know you've said but can you say again exactly what you do think it's asking? And you answered yes, right?
09-08-2019 , 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
You know, I'm not even saying it's unreasonable to assume the inference. The questions is designed to see if you to draw that inference, in a certain respect.
Your assumption that the question writers deliberately made this a "trick" question is less justified than pretty much any other assumption being made in this thread.
09-08-2019 , 03:58 PM
I wish itshot would post better. Not better than he currently posts or better than other posters some insane definition of better that is somehow absent of any comparator.
09-08-2019 , 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
Ok. Then I think I understand your position. Because I see the question as one between Idealism vs Realism--that is contextual bias. Whereas you don't think it's asking that.
The purpose, on some level, is to delineate the degree of dislike for rich folks. A person from the right is going to answer that question in a certain manner, no matter what. A lefty will have some problems with it. It's probably trying to distinguish lefties between a capitalist and socialist.
09-08-2019 , 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
You know, I'm not even saying it's unreasonable to assume the inference. The questions is designed to see if you to draw that inference, in a certain respect.
So you're retracting when you said that you were interpreting the question literally and everyone else was making an inference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
So, the guy who says it's a perfectly logical inference, and is arguing with me about interpretations, can't infer, or literally interpret what this means:



Right.
I said it was an obvious inference, not a logical one. There's a difference.

I can infer what you mean, but I don't think you mean the same thing that was asked by the quiz. I'm not going to just answer the question that you're getting at now as if it were the same question asked on the quiz. If you want to ask a different question, make it literally clear what you're asking.
09-08-2019 , 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdemaine
I wish itshot would post better. Not better than he currently posts or better than other posters some insane definition of better that is somehow absent of any comparator.
You should want me to post better, irrelevant of my current standard.
09-08-2019 , 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by microbet
So you're retracting when you said that you were interpreting the question literally and everyone else was making an inference?
No, I'm saying the question is a trick question, designed to trick people, and it works.
09-08-2019 , 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
The purpose, on some level, is to delineate the degree of dislike for rich folks. A person from the right is going to answer that question in a certain manner, no matter what. A lefty will have some problems with it. It's probably trying to distinguish lefties between a capitalistic and socialist.
You want to bet money that if we get in touch with whoever created that test, that is the interpretation they intended? Esrow obv.
09-08-2019 , 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
The purpose, on some level, is to delineate the degree of dislike for rich folks. A person from the right is going to answer that question in a certain manner, no matter what. A lefty will have some problems with it. It's probably trying to distinguish lefties between a capitalistic and socialist.
Lol. For one thing that's pretty close to what I said before you started being so wrong.

But regarding the bolded, yeah, no kidding, it's doing that by asking if, even if you have socialized medicine available for anyone who needs it, should some people be able to pay extra for more or better care than people who can't afford to pay extra. That's what you've been saying is a wrong and biased interpretation all along.
09-08-2019 , 04:06 PM
I'm pretty sure my own problem is that I'm also interpreting it idiosyncratically.
What is supposed to be the standard interpretation?
09-08-2019 , 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdemaine
You want to bet money that if we get in touch with whoever created that test, that is the interpretation they intended? Esrow obv.
I would, but I do not gamble anymore.
09-08-2019 , 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
I would, but I do not gamble anymore.
How is it a gamble? You seem certain you're right.
09-08-2019 , 04:09 PM
Who are the people who are interpreting it as literally as possible: i.e, it's socialized medicine of whatever standard and rich people have to suck it up and deal with it, yes or no?

Clearly the thing is open to interpretation of various sorts. The people who think there is a "standard" interpretation I think is saying something additional about themselves. Although that does call into question how they are scoring this.

      
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