Someone I met a few times has been on ventilator for 7 days now, soaking up an ICU room for 18 days so far. He infected his grandfather, who is dead now. He also infected his father and he is on ventilator. His mother was vaccinated and lo and behold, no covid.

All 3 of them were unvaccinated. 90%+ of people in ICU are unvaccinated.


When we are talking about vaccine mandates. This is the reason why. You anti vaxxers are literally consuming precious medical resources from the rest of the people that need it.

Covid would not be eliminated but people dying from it would drop substantially. Here is some data from 1 hospital:

All that matters is is the study accurate and true and can current guidelines be improved.

To your credit, and while I’ve never “bought merch,” your posts have made me more cautious of how some of these people are grifting.

Official messaging has been abysmal, so it’s not surprising people are trying to find other sources. And you also have a whole group of people, who all the sudden everyone cares about what they have to say.

Why mandate someone who's personal doctor recommends they don't get a vaccine bc of an immune disease? And why mandate everyone who's already had covid and developed natural immunity to it, which is much better than a man made vax?

About 5 more professional soccer players suffered heart attacks in the past week. I played soccer in school, you have to be in tip top athletic shape to be a pro soccer player. Not to mention about 5 more pro football players.

The latest VAERS data has also been published which some doctors believe the adverse reactions are still greatly under reported:

983,756 Adverse Events
108,572 Hospitalizations
107,860 Urgent Care
12,317 Bell's Palsy
10,429 Heart Attacks
20,560 Myocarditis
34,615 Permanently Disabled
20,622 Deaths

100% Safe And Effective???

Why is debating this topic prohibited on here, or posts keep geting deleted? Shouldn't this be one of thie biggest debates in our hostory?

I never knew anyone prior to several months ago that had the virus, but now I know almost 10, and they've all been double or tripple vaxed. A bunch of dealers in a room I frequent had it, recovered, and came back to work (one I know was vaxed, don't know about the others). I also know someone personally who passed away right after her first shot. She had asthma, which is why she got the shot, then began having severe attacks 2 days later, then died. But there's nothing to see here...

https://openvaers.com/covid-data

Nobody believes your personal claims, but if you give an update as to when Biden or the Pope will be arrested that may help!


This gets said a lot as people constantly link stuff from extreme sites. "Who cares if its an all anti-vaxx site, is the video real or not?" etc. This is always asked as if the context (and editing) of the video is irrelevant. To give a weird analogy. You can create a highlight reel from any NFL game to make it look like either team crushed the other, regardless of what the outcome of the game actually was. Dallas won 56-14 the other day, yet you can make it look like they got destroyed by how you selectively present the actual footage and data from the game. All the data and footage will be real, but it will not tell an accurate story, and it is not meant to do that. That is the innate problem when sources of information have a very clear and extreme agenda. They will present their data in a way that best meets their needs, and they will leave out data that does not meet their need. They will interpret data (that can have multiple views) in only the way that supports their agenda.

You know I always got called a troll for pointing this stuff out, but messaging matters, and some are very very good at how they tailor their brand and messaging. Yeah, I make fun of the obvious derps with all caps to buy their merch, but they are lower end messengers appealing to a very low level passive consumer base. The dangerous ones are those that have some background that gives them expertise, but they present their data to purely serve an agenda, in this case a political one. Historically this was more often found with interpretation of data to satisfy a potential client (tobacco industry for instance) where data got massaged a lot to make it look more appealing than it really was.

Well, I don't think the latest guy is quite as grifty as the donk that does the YouTube videos that other guy linked, but he has some books he wants to sell, and he clearly has a real political agenda behind all the stuff he produces, so while in this case that may match your beliefs - it still is a form of communication that should be taken with some awareness of the process.

I agree with you that a ton of the official messaging has been a mess, and that definitely opened the door wider for alternative forms of messaging to gain traction.

Have a good new year.

Your 90% figure is meaningless without a verified source.

FYI this is what a source looks like:



Here's another one. An article from the lancet totally demolishing the reason for vax mandates and or passports.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...cesectitle0005

P.S The anti vaxxer insult doesn't help your case either. It just demonstrates your ignorance as a person. I am not an anti vaxxer. I am pro informed consent and pro personal choice.

Meaningless without ratios.

Absolute numbers are a terrible way of assessing effectiveness against infection if a lot more people are vaxed v unvaxed.

Please show the numbers for needing respiration.

This is just Vancouver. But the same almost everywhere.

90%+ of covid ICU is unvaccinated. Data inside:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/vancouv...44fe7bc19/amp/

We can talk in probably a few years about it. When they admired all the mistakes. Now you are getting censored.
Seriously huh? So a person with natural immunity still has to get vaxxed? That makes no sense at all. The only sense it would make is more profit.

You don't yet understand difference between infection and hospitalization.

Using raw Vaers data has already been debunked.

Vaers aggregates all death data after vaccines, even if you drown in a swimming pool after getting the vaccine shot.

Vaccines were found to kill less than how many Americans die from tylenol every year.

Another conspiracy debunked.

Admired mistakes. That's rich coming from you.

One more for the road before I head out to the chalet:








Anyone crying about vaccine mandates at this point is low IQ.

bobby when you see the below and how deaths are trending due to vaccines, do you think those people who all took vaccines are dupes and just experiencing some type of placebo effect?

Not sure what you're trying to show with those charts? That COVID is over and there's nothing to discuss? Go about your normal lives.

It looks like the CFR is down to in line with normal influenza. Should we be mandating the influenza vaccine?

Bottom line: if you are in a high risk category (old, sick, or fat) get the vaccine. If you are young and heathy, do what you think is best.

Vaers data IS crap, Playbig. Please do not use THAT as a source for your posts in P&S.

For example, if you give everyone in the U.S. a lollipop and then publish data about how many of them die within 24 hours, you may create the false impression that lollipops are dangerous. THAT is a VAERS piece of manipulation.

If we don’t mandate flu vaccines , 58k deaths in 2017-18 in USA alone, why mandate COVID vaccine?

My cousin is in remission from ms, immediately after her COVID vax it came back with a vengeance. Her doctor won’t report it

A high percentage of truckers won’t get the vaccine. If Biden’s law passes can you imagine the destruction it would do to the already battered supply chain

There are genuine issues with mandates which are irrespective of the fact the vaccinnes work or even that the mandates work.

The only strong argument for mandates is the benefit to others. It's a very strong argument that imo is just about winning the 'necessary evil' case but still requring great deal of care in the details and implementation. I dotn think it's so clear that others couldn't legitimately come down on the other side

Hopefully that doesn't count as crying but if it does make me low IQ then so be it

So am i reading you correctly?

Your logic is to look at the death rate at such low levels due to vaccines and say the death rate resembles the Flu (now) thus we do not need vaccines??

Your confusing vaccines with vaccine mandates

The logic is that if mandates are considered such an imposition that we dont do it for flu then is covid so much worse that it overcomes that consideration.

The answer is either 'yes' or that we should also do it for flu (assumign we could which is a key flaw in the logic imo but also why there is a real, for good or bad, slope here).

Does anyone at this point really care if the derps continue to blame fatties or cite truckers as sources of information? A chunk will always remain derps, and the only annoying thing is a percentage of them croak is that they will do it slowly and at a big cost (both financial and on the medical resources and also taking space for other treatments). If they just croaked at home then the relative cost of cleaning up the decaying mess is small, but most will have to do the weeks long ventilator route before croaking. Annoying from an accounting perspective.

Reality is that very few of them will change at this point, so my advice to them is get their affairs to at least reduce administrative costs on families as they put a significant drain on the medical systems for a while. Most will survive, a chunk will croak and then we move on. If vaccine mandates are having minimal impact (varies from country to country and area to area) then probably time to let them go and let the chunk of derps who will die needlessly get it over with already.

Yes some of us care about politcs and people. We accept the fact that we make very little difference. We also vote on the same basis.

The claim that people dont change is massively overstated. Even the dehumanised ones although the dehumanising doesn't help.

You misunderstand. I actually care about people and society, and there does reach a point where trying super hard to convert a tiny fraction of derps does more harm than good to the bulk of society - for a variety of reasons.

A lot of effort was made to get derps to use common sense. Some got there when the public figures (whole lotta public radio alt right dudes) croaked in large numbers. Each one of their deaths probably saved dozens or hundreds of people who saw the light. I am using similar math to recognize when all the effort that should be put in has been put in, and resources should be spent accepting that derps will account for 90%+ of those that croak (and nearly 100% of those under 65) moving forward. Perhaps that will cause a few more to see the light, but if it does not, then another few months or a year will complete the process anyways. Virus does not care, it loves the derps.

You tell me as a champion of people and politics if you will ever realize that may be the decision that has to be made, because odds are people like you get there way too late for it to make as much of a difference. Some countries like England have pretty much already accepted this approach.