Criminals somewhere in the Russian federation are disrupting oil supplies in the United States via ransomware attacks.

The US cannot bring pressure to these cyber criminals because of their location.
Biden should view cyber attacks on vital American infrastructure as an act of war and launch counter cyberattacks.

Once the Russian government is pressured they can then act on these criminals which they are either in cahoots with or turn a blind eye to.

Red lines need to be drawn with cyberattacks they are just getting bolder and bolder.

No need to get all tough. Just send over a ballerina with some STDs to take down Putin.

**** with my gas prices, it's an act of war godammit

https://www.dw.com/en/us-states-decl...ack/a-57501414

In seriousness tho, while it seems the White House is acting like this is a nothingburger, is it not a direct attack on US soil? What if the effect affected triple or quadruple our infrastructure? How about the grid, or causing some catastrophe like what citizens went through in Texas not too long ago?

Time to buy a Tesla I guess...

They will be emboldened no doubt.

Iran got very bold, shooting down US drones, launching missles at Saudi oil facilities. No response from Trump administration. Finally killing some us contractors got a retaliatory strike and they eased up. They are now testing Biden administration to see how far they can go.

With no consequences for Russia or the cyber criminals no doubt will happen again and maybe even worse, as mentioned people dying in a grid shutdown.

They probably are engaging in such attacks.

Above is pure speculation from me, but I would be surprised if it isn't occuring.

I recall seeing many, many years ago US officials talking about how advanced they were and how they could launch asymmetrical attacks shutting down enemy infrastructure to cripple them, etc without ever needing to fire a shot.

I cannot recall if it was just pundits opining but I seem to recall it was actual security officials just talking out loud about current capabilities.

I also seem to recall Putin laughing in the face of some reporter when confronted with this topic many years ago and saying something like 'if you do not think America has not been doing this worldwide...'


I wish i had more than these loose recollections but as others have said almost certain America has used this power in some nations when it suited them.

I think we are now at the point like with Nuke proliferation where no country dare officially use this power as they will face mass disruption back.


But I think you will see all sorts of rogue actors take advantage, many quietly sanctioned by various intelligence agencies, as this is much easier to and much more profitable then trying to be a rogue actor getting a nuke.

Yes the US has the capability and has/is doing it (stuxnet attack on Iran nuclear program being most obvious).

A like for like attack would send a good message (shutting down their oil pipelines) that what happens to us happens to them. My only guess why they wouldn’t is because whatever backdoors were exposed during this attack could then be closed and the US would rather keep the ace card for something more serious.

The fact that the hackers apologized leads me to think they believe they went too far, this type of attention is bad for their business. Maybe US doesn’t think a similar attack likely in future of this magnitude but too many rogue actors out there it will happen again.

I would think it has be terrible for business. They would want to get some money here and there to go away. If they turn stopping them into a national priority then they are going to be out of business at some point.

The hackers apologized? How do we know that's not bullshit? Aside from that, claiming to only want to make money and not create problems for society...still creates problems for society. So even if that apology is some ruse or not, it's bullshit anyway

Who are they, and what do they stand for anyway?

Well this is an area where state actors have the most money and the biggest budgets, but they are nowhere near having the best people. They are also constrained by legal and political considerations in a way that private actors are not.

Russia is a bit of a special case, as GRU (Russian military intelligence) is known to operate through proxy groups (like Fancy Bear) to engage in cyberattacks, but even they are likely still operating under constraints that independent or criminal groups are not burdened by.

Ransom attacks are in most cases simply criminal activity, the motivation is economic. That doesn’t mean government should ignore the involvement of state actors. Technological attacks and exploits are often sold, traded or given away. It is already big business to find exploit and attacks and offer them to actual attackers. Anything that can be weaponized must be assessed with that in mind.

The first rule of cyber fight club is you only talk about what other people are doing.

Agree with everything you say here but would caveat a little because if you asked me to bet for/against whether or not the CIA also works through proxy groups doing similar or same I would bet all my money that they do and have.

If you offered me a secondary bet of who uses the proxy groups more extensively the GRU or CIA, I would walk away from that bet. I feel that is a coin flip.

Is the apology genuine you mean? I think they’re saying they don’t want trouble just money. They don’t stand for anything just trying to acquire money.

The fact that they refrain from attacks on Russia/Belarus shows you the only person they fear, which is why I’m saying to hold Russia accountable, because no one else can hold these criminals accountable since they are inside the Russian Federation.

That's exactly what they're saying (don't want trouble, just money, not to mess with citizens). I just can't tell if it's some pr stunt to draw less ire for the harm they caused...

How do we know they simply don't care what harm they do and are just disingenuously claiming they don't also have an interest in sowing discord?

And at the end of all that, the fact that they're doing ransomware attacks at all implies they're sowing discord and harming people. It's like they're saying they just want to steal $5 billion from a health insurance company, but not **** with the little guy's health insurance when they depend on that provider...What if the insurance co goes bankrupt and their customers can't get care?

Like, that's always a risk when you commit that crime. Their actions are not congruent with their words whether they were sincere or not

There's a video in another thread (I think the police brutality one) of two obviously barbaric and petty people spitting on each other and then getting physical. What if that encounter led to murder (they were fighting over space in an attempt to get gas in the middle of the panic over shortages)?

What are they going to do next time, steal money but in a way that doesn't cause problems? Lol how does that work? Sounds more like bullshit to justify their own actions rather than admitting and owning what they are and what damage they do no matter what they do

US law enforcement has the longest reach bar none in the world, ending up in their cross-hairs is extremely bad news for pretty much anyone.

Sure, if you stay within the borders of a nation that isn't on the friendliest of terms, you'll be physically safe from most adverse effects. Still, your life can still be seriously affected.

The hackers almost certainly might have tripped in to unintended consequences territory.

What the GRU or Russian gov't might turn a blind eye too, in terms of extorting foreign companies and enriching Russian citizens (even criminal elements) can cross a bridge too far if it awakens US National Security concerns and forces the US gov't agency hand into the game.

A very quick note from the GRU or Putin's gov't that this needs to be undone and fast I doubt would receive any resistance.

Your gas prices now are half mine. Boo hoo profligate spoiled energy wasting Americans.

Can't imagine USA ever hacks anything in Russia. It's a saintly state somehow most powerful in the world by
God's grace.

USA and every major power is obviously doing this.

I was joking. I'm under no illusion that I'm not a spoiled American brat

Humans can twist their own logic to suit their wants/needs so it doesn’t really matter to me what they really think they are doing. Some of these hackers make donations to non profits and publicize it. I knew a guy who would shop lift from chains but not mom and pop stores.

They are a drain on society and need to be stopped that’s all that matters.

Well all the media outlets reported they paid the ransom. The pipeline company has no comment.

I don’t think that phone call was made and why would Putin do it? Good test of boundaries with a new administration in US, that’s why I’m saying if you let them get away with this more boundaries are going to be pushed.

US brought to it's knees by fifteen year old Russian dropouts

Looks like the US did, in fact, respond against Dark Side. Quietly but effectively.





This unlike when Trump was in office, when he basically let the Russians wander around in the entire cyber infrastructure and didn't do crap about it. No wonder other adversaries became bolder.

Ya I was not taking a position, just painting the hypothetical as to why and where they might pay and where and when Putin, GRU, might step in.


If (and 'if' is important there) Putin and the GRU saw this as serious enough (lets say lots of American's were dying as an unintended consequence of this shut down) then I am pretty sure Putin and the GRU would step in.

It is one thing to have a private company and a GRU friendly oligarach making money by annoying US companies but doing no real harm outside financial loss, and quite another when it starts costing US lives and the US gov't looks then to 'strike back' to show US citizens we are not weak.




Perhaps.

But I wonder who you mean by "them" there?

The hackers may be out of reach of the US . And just as the hackers probably tackled multiple targets before finding the ones vulnerable the US had likely done same over decades.

So are you suggesting the US strike back only if they can isolate the hacker company or individuals or at any random Russian infrastructure they know is vulnerable to them that would be comparable in response and damage?


I certainly would not advocate for that latter type of tit for tat response, if that is what you are saying, at this level yet. Not for a one off. Now if this becomes a recurring problem, and Putin and the GRU either refuse or are unable to police it then the US should strike back, similar to if you have a terrorist group hiding in the borders of one country, attacking another, and the 'host' country refuses to do anything to stop them, you then ignore the border and attack them where they are.