It's all a bit blurry but it does appear that this could be the case. Let them have at it.

if USA controls Israel then why should Netanyahu be involved? if they are USA vassals as DoyleBrunson and the late Hassan Nasrallah and the incapacitated Noam Chomsky claim, then why does it matter?

Hormuz also isn't any more open now than it was 2 days ago. It appears the "ceasefire" is just the US taking a 2 week break, and everything else proceeding same as it was.

Trump isn't much of a micro manager. He kind of just lets you cook, and then steps in if he starts getting too much push back (or stocks start going down) from your actions.

Seems like Trump gave Netanyahu a no kill list (obviously someone else made the list) and other than that has let him cook.

Here ya go fella!

President Trump (March 2): “Our objectives are clear. First, we’re destroying Iran’s missile capabilities… and their capacity to produce brand new ones — pretty good ones they make. Second, we’re annihilating their navy… Third, we’re ensuring that the world’s number one sponsor of terror can never obtain a nuclear weapon… And finally, we’re ensuring that the Iranian regime cannot continue to arm, fund, and direct terrorist armies outside of their borders.”

They even did a moon trip for a little extra help.

Trump is the boss of side quests for sure

Maybe. But I think it's more likely that Trump is done with the bombing and flipped the burden back on Iran for keeping the Strait closed. I mean if the US hasn't bombed Iran in a couple weeks and Trump is saying mission accomplished, Iran's going to look pretty stupid saying it's their Strait now, along with demanding the US leave the region, etc.

Well I'm pretty much of the belief that the US did do some legit damage to Iran's military. Their Navy wasn't completely obliterated like Trump says but it appears that they lost about 15-20 warships and a few subs which looks to be about 50% of their combat ready naval units.

We really haven't anything to their air force but their air force has always been dog **** so why bother.

There’s an argument that Iran’s drone attacks have declined substantially, but part of this could be because some personnel have left bases, which would reduce incentive, so who really knows. We blew up some random bridges and apparently 14,000 targets which could mostly be random piles of dirt.

Now obviously most of this destruction was a complete waste anyways but If Iran wants to get their money back for those losses at 2 million a pop then I'd call that pretty close to fair.

The rest of problems are kind of on us. If Trump actually does walk away from this and decides to invade Greenland instead or something, it would relatively be a huge success compared to all other outcomes of not doing just that.

Interestingly, we did pretty much absolutely nothing to their "army" (Artesh); which is really more of a national guard, but is still a lot of people. Including not touching any of the leadership of Artesh. I think the hope is that with IRGC leadership weakened, Artesh would fill the void and be less ideological and more rationale than the IRGC. That being said, it doesn't appear to be happening so far.

Why do we want to be fair with people whose stated goal is to form a worldwide Islamic Republic (after death to America and Israel) to bring on endtimes?

Also, I dont think the bridges were random. They were chosen where IF there was some sort of local revolt down the line, it would be harder for the IRGC to respond. Iran is a bunch of valleys separated by poor terrain, so knocking out a few bridges can really make travel difficult. Again, not saying this is likely to happen at this point, but what the US (probably more Israel to be honest) appears to be trying to do is set up conditions where regime change could happen.

They clearly want to keep using the Strait as a toll booth, and as you guys are saying Trump doesn't appear to care one way or another. But it appears the IRGC really wants a respite to lick its wounds. Israel really hit Hezbollah extremely hard, and Iran didn't really respond at all except for some (so far) empty threats.

Hard to know exactly what is going on but the serious press FT etc is teport8ng iran has closed the straits in respone to what Israel did - hardly ' empty threats'l

If so this could be playing into netanyahu's hands or putting pressure on israel or both. Again very hard to know what discussions are taking place but we can be pretty certain there's a lot going on

I'm not a leftist nor do I belong to any political party.

I just don't think America should keep ****ing around in the Middle East when we should be directing our energy and resources toward the problems in America.

I think you guys called that America first and no new wars on Trump's campaign trail. I think Jordan Peterson calls that cleaning your room. It appears that you and the rest of MAGA are not actually America first.

Maybe I'll consider that you ******s actually care about the wellbeing of Iranian citizens when you first start showing you care for the wellbeing of American citizens (same sentiment goes for Trump).

No one here is dumb enough to fall for your pretexts. Your actions always reveal who you truly are.

You claim to care about unborn babies having a right to be born, but as soon as they are born you want their SNAP benefits and healthcare benefits taken away from them. You claim you care about Iranian citizens, yet you cheer when an immigrant obtaining a pathway to citizenship is kidnapped from an immigration office and thrown into an internment camp.

I haven't heard you yet say one word about Cuba's citizens and their food scarcity and widespread blackouts due to fuel and power shortages. Do you not care about them?

Oh, that's right... it's Trump causing the starvation and power shortages, so it's okay and you don't give a chit.


They look like just like these except they call it an accident.




That's because you and he are warmongers and thus suffer from confirmation bias. Clearly talking about wiping out a civilization is genocidal speak. The easiest and most effective way of wiping out 90+ million people is with nuclear weapons.

Trump is crazy but he is not stupid enough to explicitly state nukes because he knows he would get 25th'd, so he makes an implied threat so everyone gets the message and then the usual crop of useful idiots can deny it.

Iran (or rather its government) has clearly showed over the last weeks that its threats are not empty. Its capacities were also proven to be pretty much exactly what has been warned about in regards to drones, missiles and control of the Strait of Hormuz.

Now, ceasefires are fickle beasts, and even if this one does last and manages to evolve into some form of shitty peace, the Iranian regime might live more dangerously in peacetime than wartime, so it is unclear what will be the reality weeks or months from now. Still, we can look at the conflict under the lens of the situation today.

I see a tendency to excuse the war as the result of realpolitik and hawkish foreign policy. Criticism of the war is then hand-waved aside under the notion that the critics are doves or politically motivated (aka "anyone who disagrees with me are lefties").

The problem with that argument is that if the current status quo becomes the outcome of the war, the Iranian regime won.

Iran won,Usa lost simple as that

7 words, all said /thread

I have a feeling this won't end well.

I agree but than should the same logic not apply to Ukraine. It was not part of Nato and let the Europeans take care of it

I also find it baffling that the USA needs to give cash to Israel a country that has free secondary education and healthcare

The problem is Americans look for hope and neither party delivers it for them and promises the world bur delivers nothing

I suspect that Trump's take on the Iran war after he leaves office will be to complain that the American people didn't have the stomach to follow through on what was an obviously genius move by him. When someone on a Trump-friendly network asks whether he should taken the lack of public resolve into account when he started the war, he will just say that he did take it into account because he is a genius, that the war was an amazing success nonetheless, and that no president ever accomplished what he did.

I think a so far unachieved objective is hopes the Iranian people would revolt this was certainly my main hope. Its hard to know whats going on but it seems the timing was too poor and it was a couple months too late. The timing of the attack right after iran destabilized dealing with them was pretty sus. maybe it was copium they might be up to some good trying to save Iranians. I mean I never thought it was the whole reason but I hoped it was part of it

An unarmed populace is not going to overthrow an authoritarian government. It was always a fantasy and nothing else.

Actually, this has been studied by serious people. And it seems the largest constant with governments being overthrown from within, including Iran in 1979, is having a very large disaffected young male population. And Iran's population pyramid is even more inverted than the Western world. Simply put, there aren't enough young men, relative to total population size, to have a proper revolution.

Thinking that bombing schools, hospitals, bridges, power plants, etc., is going to get the Iranian people to embrace the US invasion of their country is just ******ed, and it hasn't worked in the past.

Ever heard of ISIS? Yeah, they didn't just magically appear. It turns out that when you blow a country to pieces and steal their resources, the people left over to grow up in a pile of rubble remember who is responsible for it.

they were created by the USA/Israel to destabilize the region and weaken Iran. the beautiful handsome General Soleimani crushed them tho, which really pissed off the Epstein class.