Don't be ashamed of the alien stuff. Honestly it is better quality and more genuine than the spooky psy op stuff he spews. Lucky probably included you in that post to mock you. I actually think its kind of charming in a way, and I hope my post (which also mentioned your anti flat earth stance) demonstrated that. I do respect people who are genuine and honest with their beliefs even if they are not ones I share. I pretty much said the same thing to Lucky when he actually genuinely answered a question of mine and mentioned his belief in something called the Mandela Effect. I basically never give him a hard time on that conspiracy, even though I do not agree with it, because it was the rare one time it came from a genuine place with him. This UFO is really a psy op stuff is more the standard ingenuine stuff he pushes.

I have zero reason to mock Washoe. Lots of people believe in aliens/ufos and I don't think it's something worth mocking any more than some rigid adherence to mainstream thought or anything else.
I think Washoe might be a little too quick to just believe people or accept things as evidence that I don't think should be accepted as evidence-- but I'm sort of hyper-skeptical in that way.
I included him in that chart to just delineate the positions as some people might not know and we have different people arguing different aspects of this. I also know that he's not actually saying aliens are real although he's definitely coming the closest.
Also Berliners are some of my favorite people and I'm like 6/6 with adoring them except for one girl who was sort of snooty. Ok 6/7. She was gorgeous still.

I would agree with you that he should be a lot more cautious in not rushing to beliefs or accepting things quickly without understanding the context. Kind of why people like you need to be debunked when you peddle your psy op snake oil. The only one who partially came on board what you were saying was him. Glad we agree on this. Onto the next psy op!

For what it is worth I did appreciate your really REALLY old shout out to the [ ] [x] [ ] style posts that were popular here many, many years ago that faded away as all short term trends will. I did not even ask if a psy op was involved!

Yeah. I mean I have no clue about Bigelow in particular or where his money comes from-- I think he's mostly self-made. The idea of a whole UFO whatever being instigated by a real estate guy and budget hotel chain owner is sort of lol though.
Leslie Kean and Christopher Mellon are entirely different stories. Kean's family actually has ran New Jersey and the Kean commission to 9/11 was her uncle.
So her family is players. If people want to know who specifically I can point to it's the Kean family. That Leslie Kean has been involved in this UFO business for a long time doesn't mean anything. This is a long running thing. And then Christopher Mellon comes from the Mellon family so he's super old money/aristocracy. And he's involved. It's not too hard to just look at some of the players involved and see how it's being pushed from various levels of power as a bipartisan thing-- with Reid, Podesta, Obama chimimg in now amongst Democrats and plenty of Republicans obviously to know that something is up. Bigelow is a bit of a red-herring there as he's this self-made eccentric billionaire type. But he's got some connected friends.



Yeah. There's no reason for me to rule out something to do with advanced tech, but I don't have much thoughts in that direction either.

Not sure how far your understanding of space and time goes, but it is limitless. Space is time. I have listened to a lot of docs and interviews and I cant claim that I understand it all. But limitless means open end. Thats an 8 laying down. Your galaxy/universe is perfect. But there are endless galaxies. That in itself is so incomprehendable that Ive heard of famous phyics or mathmaticians believe in a higher power. So the chance, that somewhere there is life somewhere else seems very plausible to me.

I do not believe everything too fast, well sometimes I do. If you mean that I believe the pilot and the radar guy immediately, then no, I still have doubts and wanted to show you there whats going on and that there are people who tell these stories.

So yeah, summed up thats my position. Is the government hiding something alien related? Thats what everyone wants to know, right? I think there is a chance.

Is it limitless or just an illusion? https://aeon.co/essays/materialism-a...-consciousness
My metaphysics pretty much starts there. But I think if we were being visited by aliens they'd likely have to be from the local group of galaxies.

It gets real crazy, if time is space, then even time travel should be possible- I belive thats what einstein figured out. So it doesnt really matter how far the distance is. Well not too much I guess, since there is also lightspeed and if lightspeed is possible then time travel is also possible. But you gotta talk to a real expert, not me on this. So far none of this is possible. Only in star trek, but in theory thats a technology as you know could be in the hands of "aliens"

"real"

By creating the term "UFO" that was an acknowledgement of something real.

So why do you keep saying such nonsense.

The 'real' is 'something we cannot identify but we do see'. It was that since the term got coined.

Ok.
So your theory is that in order to avoid the conspiracy theories they're going saying there are objects flying around that represent national security threats and have out-of-this-world capabilities on every station they can find?

A real physicist would probably say I butchered the explanation. But I think this guy Neil deGrasse Tyson is real good at it.

I am not an expert here but as far as what i have seen the USA would deem any unknown object as a potential national security threat, until it is identified.

My understanding is that is nothing new today that they would not have done or classified decades ago.

I will allow you to correct me if this is a recent declaration and phenomenon but generally you are short of any data, while full of opinion so I invite DV to answer.

With regards to the ONLY THING I can see that has actually changed which is the gov't admitting their agencies have seen UFO's that is perfectly reasonable to understand by any reasonable person.


One can easily understand why a gov't might not want it agencies to go public with "we are seeing things flying around we cannot explain and that seem to defy our understanding of physics'.

First gov'ts like secrecy. Second they might be concerned releasing such info might trigger panic or CT's.

HOWEVER after decade, after decade of sightings and leaks about sightings, some by very credible people to credible media, the cat was somewhat out of the bag.

Enough so that the CT was growing from...

- "There are things flying around we cannot explain (UFO)'

to one of...

-There are things flying around we cannot explain.
- We know the gov't knows and has files and video and maybe bodies.
- If they are willing to cover that up, deny it and hide such info what else are they not telling us.


Can you see why those, in gov't might decide that holding on to the latter position was not actually helping and was in fact feeding CT's about the CT?

So the sensible thing to do is release thee actual data which upon review takes us right back to the original...

- "There are things flying around we cannot explain (UFO)'

As boring an anti-climatic as that is because we all already pretty much new that and were hoping the data or access to those who saw them would give us more insights. But they have not. We are still simply stuck at "- "There are things flying around we cannot explain (UFO)' "

This whole thread is pretty ridiculous but I just want to point out that human intuition is demonstrably awful at arriving at the truth when trying to interpret noisy data. We are really good at identifying "patterns" that simply don't exist. Being aware of this tendency also doesn't make people much better at avoiding it either. If you want to arrive at the truth about anything in the realm of finding patterns in noisy data then relying on intuition is just as likely to be harmful as helpful.

As for the actual topic, if it wasn't for this thread I'm not sure I would have seen a single news article about UFOs for years - the only somewhat related thing I can remember is the whole furore about storming Area 51 a few years ago. The fact that I'm not in the US obviously has a lot to do with that but normally any viral topic would have at least some amount of spill-over into our news.

A billionaire is pretty much connected by definition imo. Exactly the kinda guy who can go rattle the local Senator's cage and actually get things moving. He claims to be the single biggest spending individual ever on 'ufo stuff' so just writing him off as a bit player is probably a little off. He's definitely been in the mix for a while. I do think it's kinda funny that the hotel guy's aerospace company is about essentially hotel rooms in space--he could just be a crank or he could be chasing that next level space rich

Pretty much
Some of the ridiculousness of thread I'll admit is a failure on my part to fully lay things out in a way in which those inclined to disagree with me can understand, although I don't think it's as hard as "interpreting noisy data". My view is definitely a lot more holistic for sure I think and I'm definitely giving some weight to things that others are not, but it's not quite "noisy". At least now how I perceive it myself.

I did see there was something on 'Sunrise'-- which is a Sky News show. But yeah, I would think you'd need to be tuned into US media/cable news or twitter. But it seems like it's all over twitter right now. It'll get bigger before it gets smaller I think though.
The storm area 51 stuff I'm also very skeptical of as far as its grassroots nature goes.

Lol Chris Hayes. I wanted to post that tweet earlier. It's pretty bizarre. But at least Goofy is giving me some respect.

Trolly not so much.

For goofyballer , "Was Earth visited by intelligent life? Astrophysicist Avi Loeb believes it was"

Lucky?

I don't think conspiracy theories are a problem for the ruling class and that to a large extent they've encouraged and created conspiracy theories-- which might sound weird coming from me I know. But I don't buy your fundamental premise that the government is motivated by preventing conspiracy theories.
Also, on a reductive level, a lot of what you're saying is just "ok this is disclosure"-- which I have a hard tim with. It assumes that these things that are being reported are true and I don't think there is any reason to assume that.

They are not motivated by 'preventing CT's'.

They initially had a policy to 'not disclose unknown stuff' thinking it could do more damage than good. Much like a parent might try to hide some info from a kid.

But once it became evident it was 'out' and it was causing CT's and speculation beyond even what releasing the data would it became a decision of 'what is the point'?

So while releasing it could dispel some CT's it was more because the original point was being subverted or worse it was backfiring.

Seems reasonable

It's an idea for sure. It still just sounds like disclosure, only couched with some sort of vague reasoning. But it's one of probably dozens (hundreds?) of possible takes on this.
It doesn't match my view of how the world works too well personally.

I mean it's not like the wealthy can't get sucked into silly **** like seances etc Hey Rob wanna blow some of those dollars 'researching' UFOs sure what do you wanna do? I don't know go out and dance around in the desert looking for ghosts and stuff? Sure why not

Maybe the standard type of stuff/instruments like the Astronomer guy in that video was suggesting made too much sense.

Even if You Think Discussing Aliens Is Ridiculous, Just Hear Me Out
Ezra Klein op-ed in NYT that I missed before, where he's like "uh...maybe there is something to this.

The most curious subplot in the news right now is the admission, at the most senior levels of the United States government, that the military services have collected visuals, data and testimonials recording flying objects they cannot explain; that they are investigating these phenomena seriously; and that they will, in the coming months, report at least some of their findings to the public. It feels, at times, like the beginning of a film where everyone is going about their lives, even as the earthshaking events unfurl on a silenced television in the background.

Well, I guess I could go down the lines of comparing it to other conspiracies that have got huge media attention my lifetime (even UFO stuff like the Bermuda Triangle garbage), but I'd rather point out that the 40's aren't ancient history. It's not like studying early man where all we have is a few bones and maybe some cave paintings. I don't think the arbitrary timeframe should be from the point you started noticing things.