Says the guy who jsut admitted he has been not taking the time to read or understand what CV and others have posted.

Rich.

I still have the ability to parse words and process sentences and stuff-- I just haven't responded to everything in this thread today. There is a difference. I understand exactly what Bladesman and CV are arguing. You do not understand at all what my position here is.

I am not the only asking you to clarify, so there is that.

I'm not putting you on trial and I don't think Blade is either and I'm sorry of that's how you feel as it's not my intention to do this. I'm simply bemused by your continued bare faced assertions, despite it being proven several times that your assertions are wrong, that's all. You probably feel on trial because you don't like-or at least are unprepared for- people disagreeing with you and highlighting why with examples disproving your stance.

My apologies re the fake videos I inferred wrongly from your comment and thought you believed MSM/Pentagon were deliberately putting out fake vids for some reason, probably deep and convoluted.
The vids aren't "fake" as the Pentagon aren't claiming they're alien craft.
They're simply explained vids, as in with a very plausible likely alternative explanation than alien spacecraft.

The Pentagon are releasing such things because they have to. Even if their footage can be explained. It's no skin off their nose to release such things.That's pretty much it.

It's been broadcast for nearly the past 80 years. So whatever "it's about" it seems to be taking its long ass time about it. I mean I've heard of long term planning but this is taking the piss...

I don't think anyone understands your position. I know I don't and your continued dodging of questions and absolute refusal to discuss your belief/position is going to ensure that nobody else will understand your position on this issue for the forseeable future.

Ya you are not the only one unsure what he was saying. Guy is difficult to understand.

To the point you clarified I have responded already to him with this about 3 times which he always glosses over or ignores.

But it perfectly answers why they might be releasing this info now as a change in a policy from the prior policy of not releasing info when they don't have all the answers...

Yes that's essentially it today. And a lot of the secrecy back in the day was against the backdrop of the Cold War so they'd an abundance of reasons to keep all sorts of things things secret, even wrt UFOS depending on the context.

I suspect LB thinks this is all for the purpose of "indoctrination" for some deep state nefarious reason which is why he's ignoring examples given highlighting how the topic was reported in the media regularly enough since the late 40s, as this pierces his belief system.

It doesn't at all actually. I don't think there has been some fundamental change what would preclude some sort of long UFO con beginning in the late 40s.

It's not about putting you on trial. Arguing anything online it's hard to get the tone right. At this point it's just about me getting you to recognise that you'd made your conclusions before actually giving yourself the context required to draw them. This isn't a topic like the cops thread where I think people should be emotionally or ethically invested. Nothing actually hinges on your view other than it being the kind of irrational view we all sometimes get sucked into.

I didn't even set up the Roswell thing as a trap per se. If you read the link it starts off about the history shortly prior to Roswell. But I think you need to consider that if you don't know about that era then it's kind of nonsense to say we haven't seen this before. You have no frame of reference.

If you take anything from this thread then I'd highly suggest watching the Alex Malpass video I linked before. It's very well balanced and actually very sympathetic towards conspiracy theories. It makes the point that people who believe weird things actually don't, generally speaking, have a host of other crazy beliefs, and really how we address them should be an epistemological question and not to sneer at them.

But I get that dropping an hour and a half video on people isn't likely to get much attention.

Come on guys, UFOs are just another example of a successful psy-op by our government that is full of narratives and counter narratives designed to sell media and alleviate the fears of the non truth seeking masses and to dismantle and reconstruct the power structure among the elites.

I'm sort of impressed that you remember. I've missed arguing with you and I hope you're doing well. Long time.

I think the issue here has been that everything I've tried to say is so simple and straightforward, that people keep thinking that there must be more to it and so they keep misinterpreting me. But I've certainly discussed it at this point ad nauseum. I'll try with bullet points.

* What we're seeing right now with UFOs is part of a coordinated effort to push UFOs to the masses.

* This coordinated effort is different than past efforts to push UFOs on the masses

* What makes it different is because they are releasing videos that purport to show UFOs and because the government is saying those videos are authentic

* That they are not calling them UFOs per se but UAP, or that some in power are wondering if it's the Russians or Chinese does not matter.

* That large masses of people aren't jumping on the UFO bandwagon does not matter.

* That UFOs have been discussed by government in the past does not matter.
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And that's it. It's really pretty simple. There isn't anything special about this argument nor does it take a whole lot of conspiratorial thinking. The open questions are still for what purpose or purposes is this happening, and that's not a question that we can answer because that information is not available. What we can know is that a clique of people connected to Robert Bigelow and Harry Reid are involved, and that some of these people come from monied interests like Leslie Kean and Christopher Mellon.
There is plenty of prima facie evidence that something is happening, we just don't know what that is.
Anyone can tell me where I've gone wrong here.

Btw JJJ, some new (dis)information has come out in the Portland story if you were ever interested in continuing that discussion: link.

So I don't think that anything I've said as been shown to be wrong. I think whatever claims you guys think you've made to disprove me have been as a result of misunderstandings.
Where we might still disagree is on whether this is all "nothing new"
I can handle people disagreeing with me. But I really did feel like the CNN video would put to bed any claims that this was nothing new and I was a bit flabbergasted to see that that was completely dismissed.
No that's more or less what I think

I'm not arguing otherwise
They have to because a law was passed that they do so. But that doesn't mean this hasn't been hyped up preceding it.

How is everything where this is coming from-- e.g. the Pentagon, Harry Reid, people like Kean and Mellon, and from msm sources like the NYT not the ruling class? Those people and institutions are it.
What are your thoughts about what is happening here?
I take it you don't believe any of it is real like me, but you think it's all just random nonsense?

None of this bothers me. It's true that I don't know the full history of stuff that was reported in the 40s and 50s. But I was certainly aware that Project bluebook existed, and I don't consider the existence of it something that goes against anything I've said.

Ok I'll try to check this out later this evening. Ty

I can't speak for anyone else, but my own position would be that I don't even know WTF your needle is measuring. More stories, longer stories, stories by more mainstream sources, different kinds of stories? But whichever of those you mean, I'd say that so far nothing I've seen here convinces me any needle has moved in a very noteworthy way. That doesn't mean I'm right, as I haven't really tracked this stuff over time. But it seems that since others have shown you many major stories from the past that you were unaware of, I don't think you have either, so I don't know how you can be so certain that anything has "moved the needle".

Of course it’s possible you nincampoop. The fact that it happened on earth, in and of itself, proves it’s possible lmfao. That’s not what is being debated

Ya. Lucky seems to have most people confused here as to what exactly he is trying to say or identify. He tried to blame that on me (lol) but poster after poster is asking him for clarity which he really does not provide.

He keeps repeating lines like 'things are different' but won't elaborate what specifically he is identifying as the difference.

I am still perplexed that he is perplexed over the CNN video and thinks it should be a wake up call, of sorts for others.

- video is captured of some sort of unidentifiable object that is 'flying' through the sky and appearing to move in directions and speeds we cannot explain

- it is one of the most vivid things captured on video that shows us clearly (albeit blurry) that things MIGHT be there and they are unidentified and they might be 'more'. If anything might be a alien ship, certainly this looks like it has the potential to be one.

- later it is demonstrated, almost certainly, it is an illusion of light and distance on a typical jet or other craft as they recreate the mirage in stunning detail.

So the whole thing that got everyone roused is proven to be a nothing burger.

Lucky seems to be saying (???) them releasing a nothing burger video, something that later got explained is new and indicative of something (???) and that should arouse other suspicions because why ???


I think (??) his answer would be 'because in the past they would have kept that hidden' which is then answered by my above reply to them on the very clear change in policy.

Which can easily and simply be explained by my prior post.

It seems you want to dismiss easy and simple answers and focus on pretending they don't exist.

Again my post replying to your prior question acting as if it is unanswerable as to why they would be releasing this data now...

[QUOTE]
Yes see my prior answer as to why that could be and it would make perfect sense.

Again see above.

Seems to counter your Point 2 above so why it 'does not matter here' seems strange if you want to maintain Point 2.
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The entire term UFO was COINED so we, and the government could say "something is happening, we just don't know what that is".

That is why the first letter 'U' stands for 'Unidentified'.

Pretty much everywhere you try to pretend the above supports your view that this id different as you have not shown that at all here or elsewhere.

Umm I am the one saying it is possible, so you seemed to have misread.

There are some people who believe it is not possible but my post was not really directed at them. My post was directed at trying to see where people were on the spectrum of belief.

Because what you will find is that as you go from 'do you believe in bacterial life on other planets' to 'do you believe in advanced life, similar or more evolved than us on other planets' and everything in between the pool of people will shrink.

It's worth saying again that when these videos get released that there's a few things going on.

First is that various militaries and air forces around the world have had to balance out telling their agents not to be dumb whilst also wanting them to feel free to record and report if they see something unusual. We're back to the old adage about early folk sitting in the forest and one hears a rustle and thinks it's a tiger. Better to be wrong and it's not a tiger than ignore it and be wrong when it is. If a pilot sees something weird, you probably want to know about it.

The next thing is that, if a military or other government agent puts something in a report, that report is default classified. This should be immediately obvious, but it seems to get people suspicious. I don't know why, because if I talk to my doctor then that's "classified". People can't just put a FOI request in on my last consultation (turns out my sciatica is back, but you'd never find that out on your own).

The next, obvious thing, is that then you have somewhere a bunch of reports and videos stacking up. And you also have a bunch of reporters and UFO enthusiasts putting in FOI request after FOI request, insisting that this stuff be released. Upon inspection, it turns out that some pilot catching a bird on video and not being able to tell from a distance what it is, is absolutely fine to release with a few redactions about names and locations and such. There's a kicker to that too. If the government ever intends to release info about anything, then it HAS to investigate those things.

What's all that mean? Well, it means that we should expect that the government is literally always investigating UFOs. They want it reported and someone has to look through the reports. They're always inundated with requests from people hoping to find something good, and some stuff is going to get released because, well, there's nothing in it warranting someone to say "We need to lock this down for another thirty years".

From that perspective, is it remotely surprising that now and then someone's gone through enough of these reports to say "Boss, this is all garbage, clear it for release"? Not to me it isn't. The only thing that would be remotely surprising would be actual tangible evidence that there really is some unknown technology in the skies (whether it be Russian, Chinese, or ET trying to get better reception again).

Understandably, that's the kind of thing that would be extremely unlikely to be released. And if it were released, it would likely be because so many people were already aware of it that it couldn't be hidden any longer. It would be some pressing concern that needed to be done immediately to stop panic and speculation. What it would be extremely unlikely to be, would for it to be released through months upon months of priming the public with the kind of grainy footage we've seen since the camera was invented.

You haven't been straightforward at all and several people have actually called you on this.
No we're not as this has already been debunked and coordinated by whom and for what purpose?

A) There hasn't been any effort to do any such thing nor have you provided any evidence for this.

B) Nor have you provided any evidence at all that contemporary coverage is different in any way to previous coverage, which by your own admission you're "not familiar with".

C) I see I was correct with my suspicion- you believe there's an indoctrination process afoot hence your "pushing on the masses" comment and you're unwilling to elaborate why. I suspect Monteroy was correct when he opined you're afraid how it'll look.

But it isn't different. Mariana Grand Falls Montana UFO incident released footage- that was in 1950, 71 years ago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariana_UFO_incident

Kaikura UFO incident New Zealand 1978- Aussie news crew release footage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaikoura_lights
And the NZ military declassified their ufo files 10 years ago


Phoenix Arizona 1997 MSM releases captured footage of alleged ufo


So, released footage is nothing new at all and certainly not different.
Nor have the Pentagon stated these were "authentic". That doesn't even mean anything. Authentically unknown? Also they've given similar explanations for some of the footage as the video I linked earlier showing alternate explanations. And some things are only unknown up to a point before becoming explained, so even "authentic" unknowns may have a short shelf life. But the emphasis is presently "unexplained" or "unknown" so again I don't even know what you mean by "authentic".

Why not? The UAP classification is simply broader as not all phenomena are "objects".

IOW you're simply going to hand wave away any and all the evidence highlighted which disproves your assertion because you believe it ergo it's objectively factually true..
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You're simply repeating yourself re Reid et al and ignoring other examples given which predate him by some margin. Because something's amiss, that's all there is to it and you don't even feel the need to elaborate why or moot a purpose.

Again you're simply making bare faced assertions which are easily disprovable. Now I know you won't believe this and that's just Kool & the Gang, absolutely fair enough. But those of us who are more familiar with this topic than you are, flat out know you're completely wrong and way off base here. Seriously. But believe whatever you like.

I actually don't have a problem with you suspecting something's amiss per se even if I disagree with you, but I do have an issue with you refusing to elaborate or make yourself clear. If you're not even going to attempt an argument and simply assert stuff then again while you're entitled to your beliefs, don' t expect anyone familiar with the topic to even entertain your position, never mind accept it or take it on board.

UFO sightings, particularly in the late Forties and early Fifties, seem to have been a mass-hysterical phenomenon prompted by ordinary and banal events, and the CIA and other government agencies were quite annoyed because people might think that the Soviets had super-planes invulnerable to US interception, which as far as we know was not the case.

https://fas.org/sgp/library/ciaufo.html