The chain of ownership of the land I'm on right now goes back to the US Army occupying Mexico City in 1847. I dunno how that can be reasonably described as deservedly, as Liciom says, inheriting the wealth that our ancestors created.

I don’t think you understand the law in the US if you think the wording you posted is similar to the US. I live in Colorado and there are literal mountains you can’t hike on. There is controversy because the 14ers here get pretty competitive and one was closed down not too long ago.

oh wow, just googled that, brand new land and for reasons of liability

I get it, just need to fix the liability laws so I can't sue someone if I'm hiking on a mountain they own

that's absolutely tragic and beyond messed up

I thought you were in the midwest, didn't realize you were in colorado, I could be out there for a bit this summer, would love to get a coffee/whiteclaw with you if you're available

was in colorado springs for college so know the area somewhat well, when I go back for reunions I always camp up on in the mountain

I'm from Oklahoma but moved here a couple of years ago. Let me know if you get in the area and we will make it happen

Baltimore's Key bridge will be rebuilt by immigrants, like America itself.

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-...nts-rcna145482

That's cool.

https://www.travelchinacheaper.com/4...mping-in-china

This says it's not technically legal for foreigners. You are required to check-in every night or something and it's not possible while camping. It doesn't sound like that's a thing in practice I guess. Someone got charged with espionage for having a gps device also a bit alarming.

Yeah, referencing China in response to a rant about freedoms is pretty hilarious.

If you can safely wild camp in practice in China, that's very interesting, but I'd certainly be more comfortable plopping a tent down in the middle of nowhere in Iceland than having the authorities in China deciding, perhaps based on whether one official in question disliked foreigners, if it was ok.

I will say that roughly 10% of the continental US is national forest and that is free use land. You can literally live in National Forests for free. Well, not technically for free, but basically.

You can camp for 14 days then you're supposed to relocate something like 20 miles (iirc) away-- in order to prevent people from just setting up permanently somewhere. How much this is enforced idk and i imagine you could get away with staying quite a bit longer in most places.

Also and fwiw-- there is still private property located within national forrest land. Just because you look on a map and see it designated as national forrest doesn't mean that there isn't some private ownership taking place within it-- they just might have to adhere to rules about what can and can't be planted.

yes, legal immigrants, since it will most likely be union work.

i have zero doubt there are people who are completely anti-immigrant. i assure you i am not.

i am against immigrants showing up on our door step with no plan other than relying on the government. the guys i work with now most definitly came here illegally, but they had places to live and work lined up upon arriving. a much different situation than the people sleeping in logan airport for weeks at a time.

i am very, very against allowing people in en masse from hostile nations.

There was what, 100 people or less at Logan? You do realize there are more than 10 million illegal immigrants in the US, right?

We have 45,000,000 people on welfare in the country doing **** all

I genuinely think these two things are correlated

I mentioned earlier how lack of migrants due to covid forced mcdonald's to up their salaries

I think many of the people on welfare could work but choose not to but if they could earn significantly more than $10 an hour such as the starting pay of $18 at mcdonald's now then more would make that leap to work - we're not going to see wages that high so long as there's a fresh influx of illegal immigrants

i think the welfare system is a joke as well, fwiw, US citizen or not.

obviously we need welfare, but too many make it a career.

more would make the leap, sure, but not a lot more. why give up a life of spitting out babies and collecting checks?

another thing...when i go to a mcdonalds i dont see people working there who look like immigrants. i see a mixture of young kids and obese americans with missing teeth.

Funny enough, but I doubt you have close to an accurate impression of me. Also

the obvious truth is that the overwhelming majority of white Americans have no lineage in the United States in neither the colonial nor the antebellum period and then going further, the overwhelming majority of white americans during that time did not own slaves as the population of non slave regions was significantly larger and only the wealthy could afford them them in the south

so it's a tired and weak argument to lump all white people as "descendants of slave holders" when in reality that's likely <1% of all white Americans

it betrays that you're emotionally triggered by that awful history and it's giving a false narrative/perspective on today's issues

you could make a much more compelling argument calling all Scandinavians & Moroccans as descendants of slave holders - but we don't do that because that's emotionally distant enough for us to instead use reason

Oh and the value of land today is 99% made up of improvements on the land itself or society around it, the value at the moment of theft/conquer, when that happened, was a small fraction (even accounting for inflation ofc).

So it is still true that you can fully deserve what you have now, as coming from your ancestors' efforts, there is no "original sin" as the vast majority of the value has been produced well after conquest.

As for descendants of actual slave owners, i'd look into Turkey. They had fully legal slavery up to Ataturk.

I don't think you followed the conversation. Maybe you aren't reading any of Luciom's posts.

lol i actually originally wrote Scandinavians, Moroccans, & Turks but decided to pull back and delete that one because I thought it could lead to too much of a derail - which I'm helping ensure right now

vast stretches of coastal Europe was depopulated in recent history because it wasn't safe to live so close to where Muslim slavers could pull in and grab you in a raid

the first foreign war conducted by the United States was against Libya to free Americans who were captured as slaves because we refused to pay to the protection fees other European countries were paying them in order to avoid being raided and in our first instance of "team America world police" we weren't going to sit by idly while some other country did what they would with our citizens

this was in the 19th century - slavery was widespread and a global institution during that time

Lots of defensiveness. My ancestors weren't in the US during slavery, they were being pogromed by Christians in Europe at the time. Still, I don't throw a fit when people talk about it.