Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower?

10-24-2019 , 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
I want a standard, and those crying about principals to actually have some when it's inconvenient. It could be what ever standard you want, but this moving goal post of what's acceptable, or not acceptable being based on politics, not some principal.

This whole issue is not really out of a concern with what Trump did, it's entirely about finding a justification to remove him, for other reasons.

Interestingly, your, and others position vis-à-vis "what ever the house decides", is flawed. POTUS does not serve Congress, and the standard these folks have will make it so the POTUS serves congress, instead of his constituents.
It's the Constitution, not me. I agree it's flawed, but that what the brightest minds ever in the history of the world could come up with so that's what we are stuck with.
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-24-2019 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
It's the Constitution, not me.
Touché.
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-24-2019 , 02:35 PM
The wheels starting to fall off Taylor's story. Lol. This stuff is so predictable.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...stimony-report
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-24-2019 , 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
You don't think any of the past POTUS's have used the office for personal political gain? You seriously do not think POTUS's in the past have not implemented policies or taken actions, purely because they thought it would help them politically?
It is fine to gain politically when acting in the national interest. That is literally how democracy is supposed to work. This has already been explained to you, but you still want to pretend that you have sprung a clever trap.
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-24-2019 , 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
You don't think any of the past POTUS's have used the office for personal political gain? You seriously do not think POTUS's in the past have not implemented policies or taken actions, purely because they thought it would help them politically?
That is the point where legality is actually relevant. Implementing policies is their job and if by doing so they help themselves politically that's fine. Hell even cooperating with other countries in a way that is politically favourable for them is fine provided it's being done via transparent and legal means. What is not fine is using the position of president to make deals behind closed doors that involve illegal withholding congressionally approved aid to a foreign country in return for purely domestic political gain.

As far as common legality goes what Trump has done is illegal under multiple different laws. The only question when it comes to impeachment is whether congress (and it is specifically congress because they are the only people given the power to do so by the constitution) decides that it is acceptable for the president to use his position as being above the law in this way.
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-24-2019 , 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe6pack
The wheels starting to fall off Taylor's story. Lol. This stuff is so predictable.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...stimony-report
Person accused of crime says they are not guilty of crime. Huge news, this clearly disproves everything.

It's not even that he's denying it, just saying that he "doesn't recall". Personally I would lean towards giving more credence to the person renowned for taking copious notes and who was testifying under oath over a lawyer saying his client "doesn't recall" something.
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-24-2019 , 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe6pack
The wheels starting to fall off Taylor's story. Lol. This stuff is so predictable.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...stimony-report
For Sondland's lawyer to say his client "does not recall" is a dodge to avoid perjury. It does not mean that the "wheels are starting to fall off Taylor's story." Taylor took notes. Your response is "so predictable".
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-24-2019 , 03:23 PM
Quote:
House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) shifted the goalposts for President Donald Trump again on Wednesday, insisting that there could not have been a “quid pro quo” in Trump’s interactions with Ukraine because Ukraine never buckled to Trump’s demands.
Incompetence isn't an excuse

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/t...ccarthy-argues
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-24-2019 , 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by itshotinvegas
You don't think any of the past POTUS's have used the office for personal political gain? You seriously do not think POTUS's in the past have not implemented policies or taken actions, purely because they thought it would help them politically?
based on these questions, are you admitting that Trump used the withholding of the aid solely for his personal gain? If not or if only partially, what percentages would you give his conduct between having a national interest (or motive) and a personal interest (or motive)?
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-24-2019 , 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl
I guess the Bezos extortion over the dirty pics by the brother wasn't actually a crime because it was unsuccessful. Or the bank robbers that get caught...

Last edited by jjjou812; 10-24-2019 at 03:53 PM.
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-24-2019 , 03:45 PM
Unilaterally witholding the aid was already illegal, it doesn't even matter what the reason was.
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-24-2019 , 04:15 PM
sondlands lawyer says sondland doesnt remember! im laughing at u.

i already told u...bill taylor, harvard, west point, vietnam, bronze star, appointee of reagan, W, pompeo...described a high crime under oath in detail with documents.

the debate is over. Trump will get his due process in a trial before the Senate. Evidence will be made public. and shockingly to nobody with any sense it will match what bill taylor said. under oath.

Last edited by anatta; 10-24-2019 at 04:20 PM.
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-24-2019 , 04:21 PM
Anyone who thinks Trump's intent was simply to get dirt on Biden that he could use in his campaign is simply wrong. Trump wanted to injure Biden politically by having him "under investigation" in a well publicized way. Of all people, Trump knows the smear value of a person being publicly "under investigation". That's why he insisted Zelensky go on CNN and publicly announce the investigation.

Trump couldn't tolerated even being under suspicion of being under investigation by the FBI on Russia. That's why he pressured Comey to announce that he was not under investigation and Comey's refusal was largely why Trump fired him. Trump was not going to let Comey turn him into Hillary.

Once Biden was under investigation, no real dirt need be found. Trump was more than ready to lie Biden into the ground with fake stuff from here to the election. Rinse and repeat the Hillary treatment.


PairTheBoard
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-24-2019 , 04:24 PM
last week general matis told trump he earned his spurs in combat whereas trumps daddy's doctor gave trump his spurs. mueller. taylor. mccain. remember when conservatives honored our vets and didnt call them criminals, cowards, weak, and liars? u must be proud.
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-24-2019 , 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PairTheBoard
Anyone who thinks Trump's intent was simply to get dirt on Biden that he could use in his campaign is simply wrong. Trump wanted to injure Biden politically by having him "under investigation" in a well publicized way. Of all people, Trump knows the smear value of a person being publicly "under investigation". That's why he insisted Zelensky go on CNN and publicly announce the investigation.

Trump couldn't tolerated even being under suspicion of being under investigation by the FBI on Russia. That's why he pressured Comey to announce that he was not under investigation and Comey's refusal was largely why Trump fired him. Trump was not going to let Comey turn him into Hillary.

Once Biden was under investigation, no real dirt need be found. Trump was more than ready to lie Biden into the ground with fake stuff from here to the election. Rinse and repeat the Hillary treatment.


PairTheBoard
yep
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-24-2019 , 04:33 PM
Quote:
The White House’s trade representative in late August withdrew a recommendation to restore some of Ukraine’s trade privileges after John Bolton, then-national security adviser, warned him that President Trump probably would oppose any action that benefited the government in Kyiv, according to people briefed on the matter.

The warning to Robert E. Lighthizer came as Trump was withholding $391 million in military aid and security assistance from Ukraine. House Democrats have launched an impeachment inquiry into allegations that the president did so to pressure Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate the business activities of former vice president Joe Biden’s son Hunter Biden. As part of the inquiry, lawmakers are closely scrutinizing the White House’s actions between July and September.

The August exchange between Bolton and Lighthizer over the trade matter represents the first indication that the administration’s suspension of assistance to Ukraine extended beyond the congressionally authorized military aid and security assistance to other government programs.
The Trump administration was signaling it would hold up things for Ukraine, more than just military aid.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...127_story.html
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-24-2019 , 04:39 PM
taylor said under oath that sondland told taylor trump is a businessman. payment in advance. everything on the table is on the table and payment up front. meetings, weapons, trade...gimme my statement. up front. tell the world 2016, server, hunter biden.

sondland omitted this conversation when he testified. the only defense his lawyers can say is the obvious, he doesnt remember. he will come back and confirm it. sondland isnt taking the fall.
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-24-2019 , 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anatta
taylor said under oath that sondland told taylor trump is a businessman. payment in advance. everything on the table is on the table and payment up front. meetings, weapons, trade...gimme my statement. up front. tell the world 2016, server, hunter biden.

sondland omitted this conversation when he testified. the only defense his lawyers can say is the obvious, he doesnt remember. he will come back and confirm it. sondland isnt taking the fall.
The Taylor-Sondland text messages show clear as day what was going on to anyone who isn't sticking their head in the sand.

Taylor messages Sondland "Are we now saying that security assistance and WH meeting are conditioned on investigations?"

Sondland then (by his own testimony) spends the next four hours looking for an answer, takes marching orders for Trump for what to answer and then gives an answer so obviously legalese that it is painful to read, where he denies this.

Obviously his only defense by now is "I don't recall", he understood when he got that text message where this might end up and he now knows where it will end up. It's either "I don't recall", perjury or admitting a crime.

But hey, at least it's fun to imagine the rising panic when he was scrambling around to answer Taylor's text.
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-24-2019 , 08:43 PM
we'll see...Luskin below is Sondland's lawyer...https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/s...-doesnt-recall

Quote:
“Sondland does not recall any conversation in Warsaw concerning the aid cutoff, although he understood that the Ukrainians were, by then, certainly aware of the cutoff and raised the issue directly with Pence,” Luskin told the Post in an email.

Taylor’s testimony also raised questions about Sondland’s claim in his prepared testimony that he was unaware that Burisma — the company that Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani demanded Ukraine investigate — had connections to the Bidens. (Joe Biden’s son Hunter sat on the company’s board).

Taylor said he was told by the same White House official of a Sept. 7 conversation Sondland had with Trump about the investigations. The White House official said Sondland was told by the President that he wanted a public Ukraine announcement of investigations into the Bidens and into claims of Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election.

Luskin told the Washington Post that Sondland also did not recall this conversation and that he “was asked” by Congress “about all of his interactions with Trump on this subject matter. These did not include another call on the 7th.”

Additionally Luskin challenged a claim by Taylor that Sondland discouraged note-taking about a June 28 call with Zelensky, and that Sondland did not want additional people monitoring the call.

Luskin told the Post that Sondland believed that the call “was monitored routinely and that an appropriate file memo was prepared. He never suggested otherwise.”

According to Democrats who sat in on Taylor’s deposition, Taylor was a prodigious notetaker and memorialized key phone calls and meetings. It’s unclear whether Taylor is turning over those contemporaneous notes to Congress.

The White House official, Tim Morrisson, who allegedly recounted to Taylor the Sept. 1 and Sept. 7 Sondland conversations, is scheduled to testify in the impeachment probe next week.
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-25-2019 , 12:38 PM
so we can add conspiracy to the list of charges Trump will be facing.

In before vegas and others claim conspiracy isn't a crime.
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-25-2019 , 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe6pack
The wheels starting to fall off Taylor's story. Lol. This stuff is so predictable.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4...stimony-report
Oh wow the corrupt business man who committed perjury is disagreeing with the non partisan career employee who took copious notes on everything and in fact was shown in Trump’s own transcript to be aware Quid pro quo was happening.

If that is falling apart, you trump sycophants are going to have an extremely difficult time. Right now Sondland’s attorney is scrambling to avoid his client being charged with perjury. He may be recalled which is only worse for him.

But yeah it is really falling apart.
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-25-2019 , 06:55 PM
so long as taylor isnt a man of high character, didnt take notes, and didnt text sondland "as i just told u on the phone this scheme is crazy", trump should be fine. how proud trump supporters must be.

not human scum.

Last edited by anatta; 10-25-2019 at 07:09 PM.
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-25-2019 , 07:08 PM
john bolton probably doesn't have anything to add. not really a detail oriented uptight square.
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-25-2019 , 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markksman
Oh wow the corrupt business man who committed perjury is disagreeing with the non partisan career employee who took copious notes on everything and in fact was shown in Trump’s own transcript to be aware Quid pro quo was happening.

If that is falling apart, you trump sycophants are going to have an extremely difficult time. Right now Sondland’s attorney is scrambling to avoid his client being charged with perjury. He may be recalled which is only worse for him.

But yeah it is really falling apart.
Lol Your non partisan career employee is a Never Trumper dude. He's already been discredited. Time to find another deep state sycophant to lie his ass off.

Shifty's probably got a whole list of them.
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote
10-25-2019 , 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe6pack
Lol Your non partisan career employee is a Never Trumper dude. He's already been discredited. Time to find another deep state sycophant to lie his ass off.

Shifty's probably got a whole list of them.
Do you have any proof of that beyond Trump's words? By the way, do you play poker at all? You made two postings in the beginning and then...
Trump-Ukraine Imbroglio: Who Is That Whistleblower? Quote

      
m