Without knowing the lay of the land in the UK that well, despite spending lots of time in London, but not in the sporting world. i would bet it is.

I see no way that part of the world avoided the alure of casual sport played recreationally and mixing sexes to make up numbers and for a social outlet. No way.

Of course I could lose the bet but I would bet I would not. My google quick search showed countless orgs at all levels,(grade school, highschool, adult, community org's to sign up to participate in recreational sport across the UK.

Ya i would easily bet you are just not in the know at all O.A.F.K.

"...Recreational sports are the most popular type of athletic activity undertaken throughout the world...."



Edit

Additionally.
"1 in 4 Canadians participate in sport..."
"...Most Canadian who regularly participate in sports did so recreationally..."


cite

cite 2

There are definitely men who have more of a problem losing to women than men.

Yea Ice Hockey not so big in the UK.

WTF?

I have played team sports all my life, btw recreational sports includes tons of activities that you do on your own like swimming, running etc.

The most popular team sports in the UK is football (actual football, not throw a ball with your handfootball) by a massive margin, the vast over whelming majority of adults who participate in football do so in single sex teams.

The only thing that might even move the dial is mixed doubles in Tennis.

If you want to look at participation rates in the UK/England:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ation-england/

https://harris-interactive.co.uk/wp-...ive-Report.pdf

Given the highest ranking cross gender team sport (men dont play netball) with women is football at 4%, how many of those 4% do you think are playing in mixed teams?

[ ] massive.

About 10 pages in..

uke promised us a quality discussion of transgender issues and what we got was "But Spooooooooorts!!!!!!!!".

Just imagine being QP, saying something like this, and then also saying the small handful of trans women who are doing well in women's sports are going to END ALL WOMEN'S SPORTS AS WE KNOW IT.

Absolutely delusional.

I enjoyed being told I dont know what is going in UKs sports with an info graphic about Ice Hockey.

Of course there are. No one is saying otherwise.

You can see the value of a strawman here.

The context of this discussion and what Trolly put forth is that the original creation of womens division in sports is because 'men cannot handle losing to women'.

Why is he pushing that narrative? Because the original and true reason which is that it was created so 'women would have a fair playing filed to compete based on biological sex', does not suit his arguments.

While SOME men behave badly (with women and men) and do not like losing to women, the vast, vast majority of them gladly play sports and activities with women in completely voluntarily leagues in recreational sports all around the world.

You cannot recognize that last point and then maintain 'men cannot handle losing to women' as a blanket statement. He is speaking to a tiny niche of men.

Well lets agree to disagree and move on as this is pretty inconsequential if the argument is solely over my use of 'massive' and how we each would define that threshold. It is clear recreational sport is massive worldwide and it is clear that, even in the UK that mixed sex activities are a significant part in that, just by looking at the activity pages on almost every site advertising recreational sport. You would see MORE mixed sex activities than exclusive ones on those sites.

If that does not count as massive to you, fine. It does to me and that is fine. So agree to disagree and move on.

FWIW I put up 2 significant topics on Trans issues to discuss and no one touched them but Lucky.

I mention sports and everyone else is all in.

So while I (and I alone) show a willingness to discuss the deeper issues, the rest of this board only likes the 'sports' like topics.

Just imagine thinking the above in your head and then actually typing it out, thinking it makes any sense when it does not.

Again with people on this forum crying about 'you won't agree with my opinion'.

I am NOT required to agree with your opinion and i do not. Why are people on this forum so offended by that.

I never said you were wrong. I said I could be wrong. But STILL you are clearly angry that I won't agree with you.


I know Recreational sport is massive world wide and in one of my first google hits I easily demonstrated that belief I hold is no where near unfounded.

I also know that mixed sport is a huge part of recreational sport and again a quick google check of the recreational sports clubs whether in city or university show the vast majority of recreational sport offerings as co-ed. If they offer 20 different sports or activities 80% are co ed and 20% are single sex.

So fine if you want to say despite that you still do not think my statement that 'co ed recreational sport participation is massive'. Maybe you prefer 'significant' or 'large' or maybe you would even say 'insignificant', and that is all fine.

The question is, as always, on this forum, 'why do people take such offense at not having the power to make others agree with their opinion?' Why do they act like it is some offense that they won't?

Can we move this **** to the sports subforum? This is the trans issues thread.

It's a mystery. I also wonder who that guy is who does not approve but keeps it going by replying to every single post. Oh, wait, it's you...

Sorry Trolly but it is entirely relevant.

Since my earliest postings in this thread, I have argued against those ignorant about the scale and commonality of Recreational sport, which is by design open to trans individuals (everyone) to find places to compete.

Almost everyone on this forum wrongly believes generally that recreational sport can only exist (or generally exists) only under Competitive sport and it relies on that for infrastructure etc.

The exact opposite is true. Generally speaking recreational sport almost always proceeds Competitive sport and is played with minimal to no infrastructure. Go to any Caribbean country, any third world country, any tiny small town in rural Canada, and you will find recreational sport where they cannot support Competitive sport.


Click on the links i have put above on Recreational sport and you read instantly, often as the first word that Recreational sport is based on 'Inclusiveness, competition. etc'. The very thing most here were arguing why trans women should be able to play Competitive Sport because it would be 'inclusive' to allow them to.

Competitive Sport has NEVER been about inclusiveness generally. In actuality it is about the opposite of inclusiveness. It is about trying to, as tightly as possible narrow the range of participants by commonalies of biological sex, age, etc, in an attempt to get 'like to compete against like' in as much as a 'fair playing field' as they can create. That is the entire modus operandi of Competitive SPort. Its 'reason for being'.

And as soon as you say 'but inclusiveness now needs to be put at the top of considerations' when it was not even a consideration at all, you no longer have 'Competitive Sport'. You have made it uncompetitive by definition.

it is an agenda based deliberate false narrative to push the idea that if trans people cannot compete in Competitive sport they are then denied an ability to play sport at all. That is like saying if a cis male is unable to make the Competitive Sport team he is denied an ability to play sport, and thus inclusiveness for him should over ride that. No, False. Find or start a recreational sports team and play there. Far more people are 'excluded' or 'cut' from Competitive teams than make it, in most areas. If they do not already have a bigger recreational league, they certainly could.

Replying?

Replying to the only thing OTHERS are interesting in engaging in?

Ya I will take that. I do REPLY, yes.

This is a discussion forum and you have one side who says 'we will only discuss these issues...' and yes I 'reply'.

Shocker.

I guess you could say 'but I could just let it die and we not have ANY discussion on a discussion forum', as your position and think you are making some point. I see no point there.

Its not my opinion.

There is not a single iota of ambiguity on this issue, mixed gender team sport is tiny in the UK by participation and that is a FACT its not my opinion.

You are calling black white then telling me that me saying white is white is an opinion.

One discussion on a poker forum is hardly "not have ANY discussion" but whatever. Looking at your daily post count I guess you "just like discussing". Keep on trucking, champ.

Again people on this forum do not understand what constitutes opinion and what does not.

This is the singular biggest reason for so much unnecessary conflict on this site and I will keep pointing this out.

It is 100% opinion the ISSUE you engaged me on when i said worldwide recreational co ed sport is 'massive' and then you questioning that, and then indicating at least in the UK you did not think so.

What makes it opinion is we do not have a definition for 'massive' and different people will hold differing views of what that threshold means.

No one can claim objective fact over that.

It is the ONLY type of discussion the OTHERS will discuss in this thread.

You act like i am their boss and can DEMAND they participate in the other areas of discussion I try to get them to engage and then you act as if me 'replying' is a wrong.

Your position is just nonsense. To act as if 'replying' in discussion forums is the wrong. IF you think it wrong why not engage the OTHERS who are the ones i am replying to? Oh ya you have an agenda.

If you want to die on the hill of a clearly ridiculous position of 2-3% of the adult population being massive then I cant stop you.

So yes if its your opinion that 2/3% of adults doing something is massive then jog on.

Most people will have the opinion you are being utterly ridiculous.

A week ago a trans person was assaulted at Christopher Steet Day Parade in Münster Germany by an idiot. they beat them to death on a parade for trans. U gotta be kidding me!

WTF? WHO heard of that?

"The assailant hit Malte twice in the face. He fell to the floor, struck his head and never regained consciousness."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ult-in-germany

No connection on contradiction between those two statements, no idea what you are even trying to get at.