Even the most basic, uncontroversial statements like “adults can legally change their names” get met with a barrage of babbling idiocy, this thread has run its course. No other subforum on 2p2 lets people **** all over threads like this.

Why wouldn't it when people like you meet statements like 'adults can go on vacation' with a barrage of babbling idiocy and denials?

Oh wait, I have never argued a single word against your strawman either. Gotcha.

For the record the primary reason this thread goes to sh*t is because people like Trolly make not an ounce of effort to discuss anything honestly and that just leads to back and forth trolling exchanges and increasing hostility.


Now in his defense, he wants the thread closed, so I am certain he resorts to the barrage of lies and misrepresentations deliberately in an attempt to escalate the nonsense so he can then call for its closure.

Nothing would help this thread more than if the 'empty posting' and 'pure lies and trolling' were an offense, as was the case on RT forums, as that rule change really cleaned things up in that forum.

Empty, trollish posting really never contributes anything.

Nah not interested. But I wish you much luck in your appeal to the mod's if you won't explain a nonsense post.

The irony.

Someone does not know the definition of "irony".

Quite funny.

According to you, no one understands anything but you. Do you know the definiton of narcissism?

EDIT: Current state of this thread:

"OMG OMG, human language is soooo confusing. I should not have to use it!"

and

"Well, people have nicknames, ya know?"

It is not my fault, you have comprehension and the solution is not to pretend you do not. It is for you to address them.

Anyway back to the last real discussion post before this purposeful diversion, trolling of the thread exchange was forced....

Yep. It's Narcissism.

If you put a QP post into a predictive text generator, the results are amazing.

No, I'm the one who compared nicknames to pronouns, as I also already noted. You are really dense.

Or if you don't like the thread, you can just stop reading it. Or do us a favor and at least stop posting in it.

"I don't like it, so it shouldn't exist". What you accused me of, but actually what you believe (about this thread).

"Help, I find "they" very much confusing!"

Surely the primary lesson of this comparison is to treat each other with respect how they wish to be referred. If I tell people my name is Robert, sure some might shorten it to Rob, but nobody ought to start calling me Emily. And if someone says they don't like being called Rob, that's ok too. And if they change their last name after marriage or use their middle name not their first name or whatever else, we just all respectfully go along with it. Conflating the fact that there is some element of social influence on nicknames with the primary fact that you can tell people what your name is and people go along with that is a mistake in my mind.

As a teacher, I always ask my students what their preferred name is, it goes out in my start of term survey. The might tell me their pronouns there too, if they wish, but this is where most people say they like "Rob" and not "Robert" or whatever. But sometimes they tell me names that don't look at all like their official student records, particularly international students, and this is really helpful. This is a much broader point about just being respectful to people's preferences than just trans issues.

They don't care about facts nor accuracy so you can say that all you want and they will keep accusing me of doing it.

Even now you see uke repeating his argument.

One I don't disagree FWIW, but if I simply hit reply and speak to some of HIS points, InJuice, as dense as he is, will ask me why I am comparing names to pronouns when I am doing no such thing.

But again Trolly, and obviously InJuice have realized if you only reply to what people actually say, you may have to agree with them or find you have nothing to criticize, so better to just make up points for them and argue against those.

You can all move on from this recent spat about names and nicknames.

IF you look at the Original Post here is were I stand to get of this pronoun thing

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-t...gender-issues/

The chart I read wrong

1) Of course we should protect Trans Gender people from any sort of discrimination

2) Require athletes to compete on teams that match their Biological Sex. Only competitive including High School and College I agree

3) Make it illegal for healthcare workers....... Disagree

4) Let them use whatever bathroom they want. Now changing rooms that is a different question

5) Make it illegal for public schools to teach about gender identity to elementary. This ones tough as little kids always ask questions and should never fear asking a question On the Fence

6) Investigate parents ....... Nope not for this Though I would not be for surgery till they turn 18 even with the parents permission

7) Require Heath Companies to cover Yes

Can you ask the people who want this thread to get shut down, and are trying to cause it to happen by deliberately riling things up, to just leave the thread?

What kinds of things are health insurance companies required to cover now? I think I have read that they are required to cover birth control for women.

But most of them don't even cover something as basic as dentistry, which I have always found ridiculous. I think most also don't cover any procedures that are considered voluntary, even if they directly affect someone's physical or mental health. I know a few people who were made to jump through all kinds of hoops to get weight loss surgery, and I think some insurance policies don't cover it at all, even though it would be beneficial for general health. And I don't think any of them cover plastic surgery, even though someone's looks (and what other people think of their looks) can definitely affect mental health.

I feel bad for the people who look in the mirror and hate seeing themselves looking like the gender they don't feel a part of, but I also feel bad for those who don't even have to look into the mirror to know society doesn't value them because they are physically unattractive.

I have very mixed feelings about even adults going through gender change procedures. In theory, I think every adult should be able to do whatever they want with their bodies, but it does really bother me to hear about healthy functioning bodily organs being permanently surgically removed when the decision could be regretted later.
Of course this is even more an issue with people not yet legal adults. In a discussion here about student loan relief, several people asserted that someone 18 years of age wasn't old enough to understand well enough what they were getting into when they took out large loans. Are the same 18 year-olds really old enough to make irreversible decisions to completely change their own bodies?

Just as an example of what seems to be common medical/psychological knowledge, this article says "The rational part of a teen’s brain isn’t fully developed and won’t be until age 25 or so."
https://www.urmc.rochester.edu/encyc...ContentID=3051

Well, that’s a blatantly false choice if I’ve ever seen one.

This issue will continue to be important because as we saw in the last thread there is a high level of denial and deliberate mis information repeated by people who will push two contrary positions.

On the topic of trans women having significantly disproportional outcomes in the top of female sport you see some post mockingly for examples. They try and use the fact that trans women being a relatively new thing in sport and thus there not being a huge amount of examples yet, as proof then that we have no proof or evidence.

The same people are seen making the arguments that Trans women numbers in sport are small and thus this does not really rise to the level of an issue.

They ignore that if 2 is true you should not demand Point 1, when talking disproportionate impact.



So to the demand of proof, I think it is important to keep pointing examples such as this out. With so few Transwomen in this sport, at the very first Elite top World Snooker event organized Transwomen Jamie Hunter wins the event beating out the field of cis women. Just coincidence or other???




Now some will rightfully argue that in terms of the inherent biological advantages, Snooker would be an area where those would be far less important than in other sports or activities and there is some merit to that, (eye hand coordination notwithstanding) although that would miss the point here. Fields of biological males are far larger in these areas and thus a person who can compete in the #300 spot in a male field who then crosses as a transwomen, will almost certainly beat the entirety of the cis female field, as Serena Williams acknowledged in tennis.

It is yet another example of spaces carved out for women to pursue and achieve excellence, by not being compared to males, that now will have secondary issue of cis women be denied a place to pursue and achieve excellence if just a small comparable level of trans women cross who were in any way relevant (even if well past their primes and coming out of retirement) in male sport prior.

There is of course absolutely no evidence that Hunter received any kind of unfair advantage or did anything wrong here, but Cupes is going to scream and yell out of pure bigotry.

^^^^

I don't see any burning need for separate divisions for snooker.