You know I think it can be both, and it’s a matter of balance. Cheering the home team and booing the other guys can be a fun and wholesome outlet, but some guys will always take things too far and get into fights at little league games.

It is known for the top 200 players because they play offline events. It is not known for the entire player base. In online matchmaking, there is no voice chat and many people play with "barcode" screenames, ie something like ||||||||.

So the next question becomes, how do I know the user base as a whole isn't skewed? I don't, but I estimate it because of a number of things one of which is none of the top players is a cisgender woman. But point conceded, I don't know for certain.

Playing along that line, I would assume hunting may have been the first team sport.

I imagine earliest organized man, gathering to ambush prey and those who were most fleet of foot and who got the best kills being praised and elevated and thus 'run speed' and 'ability to jump', etc would start to become prized and measured even outside hunting, as something of value.

But ya, kind of a silly point if anyone is assuming today's sport promote violence. If anything sport has been shown for so many (especially inner city kids) as a way to avoid violence and lives of crime.

As the very popular expression goes....

'Boys in Sports, stay out of the Courts'.

this is simply not true at all and shows a massive blind spot in your world view.

men RAGE at losing to women in everything from physical sports to esports to poker/chess..

The truth is obviously in the middle. Some men behave as you describe. A great many do not.

Understand that a small percent of men who are sore losers and hate losing to anyone, especially women, are not representative of men generally. SO the point is not that some sore losers do not exist.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that if women could make any of the major league sports, and dominate they would be anything but welcomed. A top woman dominating the golf or tennis world would be welcomed and celebrated.

I speak from experience having played sports and when girls could make the team, there was not an issue at all.

We are drifting from the point here.

In Trolly's reply to you he was suggesting the reason women's division exist is because men cannot stand losing to them.

While some men (a small percent of sore losers) cannot stand losing to them (or anyone) that is not even a partial truth to Trolly's statement.

The reason women's sport came into existence was so that women would have a safe space where they too could compete, seek excellence and do so against peers who did not have the inherent advantage over them that men had. To give them a fair playing field.

That is arguably the entirety of why they have a division defined as it was by biological sex.

So when gender became uncoupled from 'biological sex', an event they did not foresee, the divisions for sport should have re-aligned to biological sex divisions and not gender based one as was the original intent and logic which was based on sound reasoning.

Instead by going with gender, and allowing transitioning males to now play with females, it completely undid the entirety of the original intent of reason for being for women's divisions. The very thing they were trying to eliminate, the inherent physical advantage that denied women a fair playing field, was now being undone. And the only thing that can save women's sport is if the numbers of transwomen remain small and thus only have marginal impact.

This is completely obvious and should be non controversial. Someone it is though.

i think verbal and emotional "violence" towards women in general is VASTLY underestimated.

whether it's through "boys being boys" or "locker room humor" or "gamer talk". its in far greater number than any of us would believe until u actually ask a woman to show you.

your anecdotal lack of an actual example aside. it definitely would not be.. women dominating womens sports are already attacked as not "feminine enough" and sometimes exposed to genital checks... gtfoh



i guess maybe if you're strictly doing the raised by wolves naive thing in saying no one would be standing out front physically preventing a woman from entering the event, then sure.. but to think they would be treated well or fairly is hilarious unfounded.

Sorry but fact says you are wrong.

Men willingly play in intramural sports with women in mass, mass numbers. Our work team was co-ed.

This idea that men generally have an issue playing sport with women because we cannot handle to losing to them is a falsehood. You cannot define the class 'men' by some sore losers. Sore losers do exist and they are not good losing to ANYONE.

This falsehood that men generally cannot handle playing with men, when mass mass numbers of men voluntarily play with women thru intramural sport when they do not have to (could play in mens leagues only), is just that, a falsehood.

Honest to blog, talk to any female poker player about men who were jackasses to them at the table.

"i play co-ed sports" the great evidence that the world is just..

lol. you just are wrong on this in general. it's ok. im glad your personal experience has been good though. i dont think you or your immediate friend circle are *******s, just know that it's not the norm.

Poker tables attract some of the most miserable people. Idk if it the stress from losing money or the open to anyone, or what. Intramural sports seem way better.

i've had guys be jackasses to me at the poker table thus they don't like to play with guys either.

BTW I have probably played more years of live poker than most here who were not pro's. Have had lots of gals at the table as it is pretty much the norm. Never seen the women treated generally worse than the men. Seen many guy to guy near fights at the table though.

The key point there was not that 'I' played co-ed sport but that co-ed sport is a massive thing world wide. Even in big cities where you can opt to play in a mens league or a co ed league the co ed leagues flourish. That means VOLUNTARILY male participation despite the participation of women.

That FACT is what undoes your and Trolly attempts at poor logic. You are arguing men can't handle losing to women and thus don't want to play with them despite the massive, undenyable numbers of men who do just that, when they do not have to.

You guys have lost this argument on the FACTS and are just unwilling to accept that.

Good points.

And of course intramural sport is the relevant comp here.

Trolly posited that the reason for Womens division in sport is that men cannot handle playing with them and losing, because he does not want to acknowledge it was created to give women a 'fair playing field' and a 'place to seek excellence'.

That intramural sports, as massive as they are exists and is a direct refutation of his position is not something he can acknowledge (and won't) because he would have to admit he was wrong.

Is it?

I dont even know what it means.

Ok so having googled it, would say that in my experience it is not a massive thing world wide, but having not travelled the whole world, I guess it could be, but I am sceptical.

Its absolutely not massive in the UK.

For sports it should be obvious there is a huge gap because of biology. It seems like this likely extends to other activities like chess and video games where physical factors shouldn't play as large of a role. If we only played online with anon screen names where no one knew your sex I bet this disparity would still hold.

The top female chess player has this to say.
This makes sense to me and maps with my own experience. Men are much more likely to be alone and stare at a computer screen for 8 hours, whether it is chess, video games, programming, whatever. Even if they aren't very good.

I struggle to believe that.

The Uk does not have recreational leagues where companies, etc play in mixed men and women teams/events?

First site on google of 'Uk recreational co ed sports activities'.



Recreational sport and active lifestyle activities

Scroll down to the bottom of the page and expand every sport located down there. I did not check them all but the first dozen or so are open to ALL for mixed participation, except the one marked for female only.



Edit: Ya definitely a thing all across the UK and i could post endless examples area by area

I know most tv is based on America only but surely you have seen the many co ed COmpany softball teams that play in night and weekend beer leagues, as they call them.

I imagine it does happen sometimes, and maybe you've seen it, but I have played a ton of poker in casinos over the last 15 years, and I don't remember ever seeing a man get angry about losing to a woman.

Why is this in the transgender issues thread?

You would know if you bothered to click on the link...

Something being a thing in the UK is not the same as it being massive in the UK.

Living in the UK I wont refer to google and will just tell you it is not remotely close to massive.

Also no clue wtf you are talking about regarding softball, do you mean in the UK?

Again not remotely massive in the UK, most people would consider softball with their work colleagues as worse than applying a cheese grater to the genitals.