He's not. Dumb people say "so and so is so dumb I don't even know ow where to start"

So, give us at least 1 reason why. And make sure it's not a fox news talking point.

I wonder if Cuepee is going to come in and do his tone policing song and dance routine given that last comment. Surely we deserve a great lecture about how in the real world telling people they are dumb isn't an effective method of persuasion!

Those Republicans don't survive primary challenges. The entire Republican brand is now focused on credulous rubes who are motivated by whatever moral panic du jour Fox News is serving up. It's not surprising their most successful standard bearers are retail scam artists like Trump, Alex Jones, and Dr. Oz or else are just mentally unwell like MTG or Hershel Walker.

I think that's his point. We no longer have the gop of the 80's and 90's that know not to **** with the popular opinion but still use their influence to give business more $ while giving a large % of US hopeful that we'll get a piece of the big pie.

You cannot even fake not being you.

You start by again telling me it easy and belittling me because it is not easy for me, then you switch to showing it is not easy as there are exceptions and 'you don't know', which means it is not easy.

Am I asking or assuming and just giving them the pronoun or term 'mother' or 'father' as I see fit?

When you say it is easy that means i should not be asking and I should just be able to know. When you say 'i can just ask' it suggests not just assuming and getting corrected and asking instead.


BUt you be you. Keep on belittling when people legit say they do not understand and then pretend you are trying to be part of any solution.

My guess is too few Republicans are sane and competent.

All true

It IS easy. Trans men are men. They are sons, brothers, uncles, and - yes - not at all surprisingly - fathers. That general language choice is both completely obvious and well established and you should absolutely - absolutely - be embarrassed that you need this explained to you.

Sure, I noted there are exceptions to general trends sometimes. That doesn’t make it not completely easy to identify the general trend. Surely you can’t be also struggling with the concept that general trends have exemptions.

Because many of them are now nihilists. They do not believe their vote matters at all. They think both parties are just flip sides of the same coin taking turns pushing everything up to the elite and other special interests so they just want to reck **** and cause chaos and see the world burn. There is a big cohort on the left that are similar.

You should care as that trans person 'making a point' as you say to just 'see how far they can push things' is what rouses the far right to rally and push back with other trans people then caught in the middle.

But if your goal is not peace and acceptance for trans people and is instead outing more 'bad people' to fight with then, by all means support that person going to schools and 'making statements' and see what happens and how no one cares about your tears when harsh measures are taken against trans.

And yet you continue.

If it is 'easy' then I should never need to ask, right? You said up thread we can ask, so are you taking that back?

This is yet another example of the Carlin meme. You say 'it is easy for you and therefore it must be easy for everyone else' and then you resort to insulting them when they say it is not. The tolerant left. 'Find it easy ... or else'.

It's not so easy because there is no such thing as men.

Cuepee is quite insistent that tone policing his opponents (and only them) is very important. So I shouldn’t describe your whole “gender doesn’t exit” bit as empty pseudo intellectual mumbo jumbo. But for the life of me I can’t come up with a politer descriptor.

It's actually the idea of gender that lacks scientific evidence

Not only that, but it's also barely even definable without resorting to tautologies.

Actually I enjoy debating issues with him and he has changed my opinion on a few issues. You seem to be trolling him.

The general trend is utterly trivial. Completely easy. Totally obvious. Trans men are men and go by the masculine versions son/brother/uncle/husband/father/etc.

The fact that there might be exceptions and if in some situation you are confused you can ask doesn't minimize - one iota - how utterly obvious it is that a trans man is generally speaking going to go by "father" and not "mother".

This shouldn't be so hard for you.

There are certain types - you, lozen, the "far right" - who like to engage with trans issues by focusing on outlandish fringe cases like this one. That is where the conversation gets centred. I'm not going to follow you guys down every fringe "lol trans people look at the big fake tits" rabbit hole no matter how much it rouses you guys up.

You are describing a genuinely immoral person. If somebody is going to be ok with harsh measures against trans people because they didn't like my tone on an internet forum then fuuuuuuck them.

I feel like "pseudo-intellectual mumbo jumbo" fits the bill pretty well here.

Let's suppose I agree to your thesis. Gender doesn't exist. Does this imply a single actionable thing about the real world? Every political debate about a law or policy or cultural practice we've had in the various trans threads, do they not stand just as they were before, not informed in any way by your thesis? Shouldn't I advocate that trans people should be included and accepted in society just the same as before?

That's part of the danger of the neocons is that they appear that way. Deep down though they are bloodthirsty psychopaths.

What is the best argument for the existence of gender that you have?

I'll address the second part of your post tomorrow..

I'm sorry, this sounds like the type of question the phil 101 student who learned in the 2nd week about the word 'ontology' asks. Why on earth should I care whether it "exists" or not? I care that trans kids aren't driven to suicide. Ya know, things with actual real world consequences.

Lol Uke.

You're really going to sit here and call the idea that gender is a myth pseudoscience mumbo jumbo and then not provide one single argument for why it exists?

And if all you want to do is rehash the same point about how everyone needs to be treated with respect then I have no idea why you've pined so hard for a thread on this.

The funny thing is that we all basically agree that race is a myth.

Gender meanwhile wasn't even used as a term outside of linguistics until 1955.

You mistake me. I don't care about that discussion one way or the other. If someone has some amazing "gender is real" take, I'm probably going to go ahead and call that pseudo-intellectual mumbo jumbo too. I just don't care at all about some silly philosophical ontology debate about whether race or gender are "real".

We've talked over the threads about dozens of specific policies and cultural practices and debated those. That seems worthwhile. That seems like the type of thing that is worth having a thread about. Actual things with real world consequences. If - as I guess but apparently you will tell me tomorrow - none of your "race/gender isn't real" silliness doesn't have any actual consequences on those debates, I just can't muster up any interest, sorry.

Obviously it would have consequences. 90% of the previous thread dealt with sports and the issues involved in organizing sports around this mythical category called gender. In a world without gender it would make sense to find a new organizing principle, as one example.