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Transgender issues IV (excised from "In other news") Transgender issues IV (excised from "In other news")

10-21-2022 , 02:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
What is that from?
ETA: ok I see you added link.

Deleted that part...reading it wrong--- that is pretty surprising actually. They're using trans women to mean males? I would expect this to be reversed.
How is that surprising in a world where everyone wants to be special?
Oh I am so special, thats it! thanks for sticking this under my nose, so there is the cure,
I just change gender. That is what the people who detranstion complain about.
They get hyped up, not informed enough, poor medical treatment, pre and after surgery and therapy.
Youll find that out, If you actually listen to them, which people like uke never do.

Just read this part, it is from the reddit group de transit and they are talking about
people like uke and trolly. Totally immune to critique.

https://www.reddit.com/r/detrans/com...vil_it_all_is/
10-21-2022 , 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by samjones99
How is that surprising in a world where everyone wants to be special?
Oh I am so special, thats it! thanks for sticking this under my nose, so there is the cure,
I just change gender. That is what the people who detranstion complain about.
If you actually listen to them, which people like uke never do.

Just read this part, it is from the reddit group de transit and they are talking about
people like uke and trolly. Totally immune to critique.

https://www.reddit.com/r/detrans/com...vil_it_all_is/

I was saying it would be surprising if it were males detransitioning more than females. Typically when people say trans men they mean biological females and vice versa, but link says females detransition at 11% then labels them trans women, when trans women are not female.
10-21-2022 , 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
Very respectful analogy.
It was just a little joke about the comment LB quoted about kids not having much going on lol calm down.

Fwiw I watched one of my daughters' friends we've known since pre-k(they're seniors in college now) go thru the the whole thing back when they were in hs--female to male. Hell my house was one of the refuges/safe places thru a lot of it. One of the parents wasn't dealing with it too well at all and tbh I can sympathize with some parts of that mindset. The only other real experience I have is with some full on adults--so a lot of the stuff that gets people worked up isn't really in play.
10-21-2022 , 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by samjones99
over 40k members here in a reddit group for detransitioners.
I apllied common sense since that number seems way off. 0.6%? 1%? who they think they are kidding?
Do you believe this number?

https://www.reddit.com/r/detrans/com...vil_it_all_is/
This is the second time in two days someone has looked at the size of a social media group as some kind of evidence to support their gut feelings about rates. This seems like the worst possible type of evidence you could provide.

It is entirely ok if the rate is more or less. People are allowed to transition. People are allowed to detransition. Support them all.
10-21-2022 , 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by samjones99
no kidding, they stay under the radar or are who knows what.

spaceman shouldnt have come up with that number, very misleading.

the usual propaganda that is harmful imo. I wanna see real numbers, but as you say,

we only get a fraction of the reported numbers
, most likely. common sense tells you its never 1%, correct?
I wasn't suggesting that you were correct, washoe. This new account feels like it may be your swan song.
10-21-2022 , 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by samjones99
nice comeback, not. I told you I believe what you do is straight up irresponsible and leads to
people getting harmed. give them correct information, do not hype anything up and dont be stupid.
I think that is reasonable and not too much to ask for.

https://www.hli.org/resources/what-p...egret-surgery/
Your article - a right wing opinion piece - does quote something quite opposite that seems to confirm that 1% number you mocked as ridiculous:

Quote:
, “7928 transgender patients who underwent any type of [gender-affirmation surgeries] were included. The pooled prevalence of regret after GAS was 1% (95% CI <1%–2%).”
Note that this is different from the right wing opinion piece's excel bar chart because it is looking specifically at people who undertook gender-affirmation surgeries.
10-21-2022 , 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wet work
It was just a little joke about the comment LB quoted about kids not having much going on lol calm down.
Lol yeah. I missed that. I was trying to think about what I was up to between the ages of 5 and 7. I had a crush on a Mexican girl named Theresa. I watched He-man and Garfield and enjoyed rubber band balls. Theresa would sometimes bring me rubber bands for such purposes which was really nice. I loved my husky and still do love huskies even though I'm a cat person. My Spanish is now very good and I still like girls. I'm over rubber bands finally but enjoy a good bouncy ball. Can still appreciate Garfield.

"He-man" is of course hilarious given the context here.
10-21-2022 , 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
Lol yeah. I missed that. I was trying to think about what I was up to between the ages of 5 and 7. I had a crush on a Mexican girl named Theresa. I watched He-man and Garfield and enjoyed rubber band balls. Theresa would sometimes bring me rubber bands for such purposes which was really nice. I loved my husky and still do love huskies even though I'm a cat person. My Spanish is now very good and I still like girls. I'm over rubber bands finally but enjoy a good bouncy ball. Can still appreciate Garfield.

"He-man" is of course hilarious given the context here.
I want you to know that it is ok that you detransitioned from enjoying rubber bands. I'm not going to use you as a talking point to try and attack rubber band enjoying people.
10-21-2022 , 03:59 PM

I don't see any cats
10-21-2022 , 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uke_master
I want you to know that it is ok that you detransitioned from enjoying rubber bands. I'm not going to use you as a talking point to try and attack rubber band enjoying people.
Why make light of a very serious issue?
10-22-2022 , 10:34 AM
I took a look what the heritage foundation says to that. yes it's a conservative think tank, I know, but they bring up an interesting point.
science isn't really clear here.
please tell me why the Obama administration was against Medicare covering a sex change, and said there is no sufficient data available to justify Medicare covering it. the studies are everything but clear here.

again, I wanna be as critical as possible here and not leave out counter arguments.

take a look yourself:

https://www.heritage.org/gender/comm...e-the-evidence


here is the part that is interesting.

Spoiler:
The Obama administration came to similar conclusions. In 2016, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services revisited the question of whether sex reassignment surgery would have to be covered by Medicare plans. Despite receiving a request that its coverage be mandated, it refused, on the ground that we lack evidence that it benefits patients.

Here’s how the June 2016 “Proposed Decision Memo for Gender Dysphoria and Gender Reassignment Surgery” put it:


Based on a thorough review of the clinical evidence available at this time, there is not enough evidence to determine whether gender reassignment surgery improves health outcomes for Medicare beneficiaries with gender dysphoria. There were conflicting (inconsistent) study results—of the best designed studies, some reported benefits while others reported harms. The quality and strength of evidence were low due to the mostly observational study designs with no comparison groups, potential confounding, and small sample sizes. Many studies that reported positive outcomes were exploratory type studies (case-series and case-control) with no confirmatory follow-up.
The final August 2016 memo was even more blunt. It pointed out:

Overall, the quality and strength of evidence were low due to mostly observational study designs with no comparison groups, subjective endpoints, potential confounding (a situation where the association between the intervention and outcome is influenced by another factor such as a co-intervention), small sample sizes, lack of validated assessment tools, and considerable lost to follow-up.
That “lost to follow-up,” remember, could be pointing to people who committed suicide.

And when it comes to the best studies, there is no evidence of “clinically significant changes” after sex reassignment:

....

The study identified increased mortality and psychiatric hospitalization compared to the matched controls. The mortality was primarily due to completed suicides (19.1-fold greater than in control Swedes), but death due to neoplasm and cardiovascular disease was increased 2 to 2.5 times as well. We note, mortality from this patient population did not become apparent until after 10 years. The risk for psychiatric hospitalization was 2.8 times greater than in controls even after adjustment for prior psychiatric disease (18 percent). The risk for attempted suicide was greater in male-to-female patients regardless of the gender of the control. Further, we cannot exclude therapeutic interventions as a cause of the observed excess morbidity and mortality. The study, however, was not constructed to assess the impact of gender reassignment surgery per se.
These results are tragic. And they directly contradict the most popular media narratives, as well as many of the snapshot studies that do not track people over time. As the Obama Centers for Medicare and Medicaid pointed out, “mortality from this patient population did not become apparent until after 10 years.”

So when the media tout studies that only track outcomes for a few years, and claim that reassignment is a stunning success, there are good grounds for skepticism.





so don't tell me the science is clear ok?. it is not.

I welcome and respect evryone but think they should not be lied to.

Last edited by washoe; 10-22-2022 at 10:50 AM.
10-22-2022 , 11:07 AM
as you can see, "some reported benefits, while other reported harm"

while I agree with the sentiment of inclusion etc., I don't agree with leaving out important details. or censoring it.
10-22-2022 , 11:16 AM
tame, can you delete my last 2 posts here or anyone?

while it is all true imo, i don't see the relevance anymore.

I could bring up the Obama administration's decision at another time or not at all.
10-22-2022 , 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uke_master
I have a personal answer and a broader answer. The personal answer is that I once had a really long IRL conversation with a trans person who had transitioned within the last six months. What struck me at that time, was that she was NOT completely sure. This initially surprised me a bit, because often there is this narrative of trans people who always knew from six years on that they were in the wrong body and there was no doubt in their mind this was correct. But the person I was talking to wasn't sure. She had been having lots of doubts about being born a male and it just didn't seem right and thought that this might be the answer. And if it wasn't, that was ok too. Ultimately she did a social transition first, then went on hormones for quite a while maybe 2-3 years until I lost touch and I don't know what happened after.

More broadly, I think people are pretty varied and it can be they change over time, or they try something and realize it doesn't work. Certainly we see this with sexuality too. I think it would be quite surprising if zero percent of trans people ever decided to change again.

No. Whatever is meant by "led to transition" I think the truth or validity of that statement is independent of the existence of people who detransition. I think we should love and support and accept people who bravely choose to transition, and we should love and support and accept people who bravely choose to detransition.
So I feel like you have a very idealized and even romanticized view of transitioning, where you assume that all kids know best, that their doctors and clinicians always have good intentions or the best interest of their patients in mind, and where there are no social processes at work. Either that, or you do know that the process isn't always clean but you brush aside any concerns out of fear of being seen as less than 100% supportive.

But the process isn't always clean. Doctors are basically forced to go along with whatever their patient says and cannot-- legally in some cases and for professional reasons in others-- disagree with a patient's self-assessed dysphoria. There is also money involved.

Kids (again especially young girls) are susceptible to all sorts of peer influence. And so we have what is essentially an industry now telling young girls with emotional and body issues: "Hey, you don't fit in. You hate your budding breasts. You've never felt too girly. The issue is because you're not one". And that's super problematic for all sorts of reasons but the biggest one being that you aren't actually helping them.

Last edited by Luckbox Inc; 10-22-2022 at 01:26 PM.
10-22-2022 , 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
So I feel like you have a very idealized and even romanticized view of transitioning, where you assume that all kids know best, that their doctors and clinicians always have good intentions or the best interest of it their patients in mind, and where there are no social processes at work.
That's not at all evident from his posting.
10-22-2022 , 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
That's not at all evident from his posting.
Some of it would seem to be and if I'm off there then I'm open to being corrected. But certainly there is this theme of "trust the kids and their medical professionals to know and do what is best" that runs through some of it, and there is some naivete/idealization in that view.
10-22-2022 , 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
Some of it would seem to be and if I'm off there then I'm open to being corrected. But certainly there is this theme of "trust the kids and their medical professionals to know and do what is best" that runs through some of it, and there is some naivete/idealization in that view.
"Trust the kids and medical experts" clearly doesn't imply they're infallible and nothing he's said suggests otherwise. Try again.
10-22-2022 , 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
"Trust the kids and medical experts" clearly doesn't imply they're infallible and nothing he's said suggests otherwise. Try again.
If I was interested in talking to you I would addressed my first post at you and not Uke. Fortunately I am not interested in talking to you.

You barely even pay attention to what people actually write so I'm expected to believe that you've carefully read Uke's posts and know the subtleties of what he's implied and not implied?
10-22-2022 , 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
Fortunately I am not interested in talking to you.
Right, you're interested in trolling and joining in on demeaning trans people. Like, the way you can't help yourself from being snarky and bringing up catboy nonsense gives the game away.
10-22-2022 , 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
Right, you're interested in trolling and joining in on demeaning trans people. Like, the way you can't help yourself from being snarky and bringing up catboy nonsense gives the game away.
Lol. Catgender is a lot of fun. Of course I'm going to celebrate that. If people were sorted out by whether they preferred cats or dogs I think that would be great.

Also, go **** yourself.
10-22-2022 , 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
But the process isn't always clean. Doctors are basically forced to go along with whatever their patient says and cannot-- legally in some cases and for professional reasons in others-- disagree with a patient's self-assessed dysphoria. There is also money involved.
I wouldn't say the processes clean but the rest of this paragraph is nonsense. As an actual doctor working with such patients, I absolutely have disagreed with patients' self-assessments. No legal or professional repercussions yet.
10-22-2022 , 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganstaman
I wouldn't say the processes clean but the rest of this paragraph is absolutely ridiculous. As an actual doctor working with such patients, I absolutely have disagreed with patients' self-assessments. No legal or professional repercussions yet.
That differs by state though, correct?
10-22-2022 , 02:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
That differs by state though, correct?
I don't know sufficient detail of state laws outside NJ, but can you find some example of what you're talking about?
10-22-2022 , 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
So I feel like you have a very idealized and even romanticized view of transitioning, where you assume that all kids know best, that their doctors and clinicians always have good intentions or the best interest of their patients in mind, and where there are no social processes at work. Either that, or you do know that the process isn't always clean but you brush aside any concerns out of fear of being seen as less than 100% supportive.

But the process isn't always clean. Doctors are basically forced to go along with whatever their patient says and cannot-- legally in some cases and for professional reasons in others-- disagree with a patient's self-assessed dysphoria. There is also money involved.

Kids (again especially young girls) are susceptible to all sorts of peer influence. And so we have what is essentially an industry now telling young girls with emotional and body issues: "Hey, you don't fit in. You hate your budding breasts. You've never felt too girly. The issue is because you're not one". And that's super problematic for all sorts of reasons but the biggest one being that you aren't actually helping them.
Congrats on writing one of the shittiestposts ever. Seriously that is no easy task but this is up there and has to be a troll bc if you believe this, especially the 2nd paragraph, then you're lolbox not luckbox
10-22-2022 , 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nutella virus
Congrats on writing one of the shittiestposts ever. Seriously that is no easy task but this is up there and has to be a troll bc if you believe this, especially the 2nd paragraph, then you're a super tool
What makes the post so shitty iyo?

      
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