uke is lying to you.

The debate between he and I can be looked up.

I maintain a position and repeat it often. "this is an area of evolving language"... 'this is an area of evolving norms", "thus being critical and insulting over peoples errors should not be done".

Uke counters by 'Insulting" and justifying it by saying this is "easy" as his reasoning.

We have had this debate in every version of the Trans thread and uke insults multiple people in those threads with the 'its easy' when they make mistakes with terms. It is absolutely his go to.

No troll. You avoid answering any thing that would require you being critical of uke.

I'll demonstrate.


You say 'believe them and accept it if they identify as transman'

Uke and Lucky say 'no' to that.

How is the lay person, with no familiarity to traverse that? Is it easy? Is uke and Lucky wrong or are you?

Yes and yet you ignore the context (spite) of the exchange with uke, DELIBERATELY so you can assume intentionality and virtue signal which is all you guys care about.

It's kind of strange how you say I avoid answering questions while literally demonstrating that I answered your question. Of course I don't think I'm wrong -- why would I say something I think is wrong?

You acted out of spite unintentionally?

CORRECT and that is my point.


If people in those various communities you highlight are still in the midst of hashing out terminology. If the language is rapidly evolving before our very eyes and new norms are being set, then to EXPECT people NOT in those communities to know what terms and norms are accepted or not and to attack them because you now know but they do not, is just garbage.

I could easily use a wrong term on any of those topics you highlight as I am not versed in them.


No area, in my lifetime has exploded with new terms and new norms like the LGBTQ+ area has. You could google by month and see the changing gender definitions and numbers. Is it currently 68 or 75 or more? I cannot get that answer easily from google.

And yet the virtue signalers are ready to attack those who are not at the same point of knowledge the day after they accept and learn a new term or norm. And it has always been that way for this group. It is referred to as a virtue signaling olympics and people like John Stewart have spoken on it.

People like uke just so eager to demonstrate they are 'UP' on the latest terms, and who feel the need to belittle those who are not, thinking it makes them look more virtuous as a result.

And yet you did not again. You just gaslight and troll on.

I will repeat them and you can copy and paste your reply if you want to pretend you directly answered them,.




--------

You say 'believe them and accept it if they identify as transman'

Uke and Lucky say 'no' to that.

How is the lay person, with no familiarity to traverse that? Is it easy? Is uke and Lucky wrong or are you?

The 'spite' or 'dismissal' (better word) of uke was intentional.

Oops, I meant to post the recent one. Sorry

This is truly an incredible hissy fit. Dude, all that happened was you were told - politely at first - that your language of “transman” is considered offensive by many and you should use “trans man” instead. That it. Relax. All the ranting and raving about sinister motivations and god knows what else is entirely in your head.

Hopefully now you are aware of the less offensive terminology and when you are away from me, away from this thread, and in a better mind space you will be able to use it with people instead.

Now, seriously, can you move on from the transman temper tantrum? This should have been a one post exchange, not a 20,000 word exchange!

Yes you would believe them. But then later if your find out that a bunch of people don't like the term then you use another one.

I think this particular case is not hard because I've never seen or heard 'transman' used before and it doesn't follow any familiar pattern for word formation. This is something that a native English speaker should be able to recognize.

Now some people will tell you that the 30% number is too high and that it should be lower but if it's lower then 30% then using words they don't like is a good way of weeding out the people you don't really want to be talking to.

So the "transgender issue" we're discussing here is why it's okay for hetero cis dudes to use deliberately insulting terms? Great thread.

Not just cis people but everyone.

Like if some aliens came down and were like "hey we're just here to check this place out" and we were like "cool...np....what should we call you?" And they were like "whatever is fine. Aliens works"-- but 25% were like "no actually we find aliens offensive"-- well then those aliens can stay on the ship.

I see zero discussion of what terms trans people should use to describe themselves (thank god).

How can we tell who a trans person is and who isn't a trans person?

Lies.

You use the same scolding condescension line often and its just an extension of your virtue signalling and inability to understand that simply because you hold an opinion, that does not make it correct.


The last time I offered to 'agree to disagree' over the purpose of these forums when it comes to posting uncorroborated or speculative, 'hot off the press' type news. You hold a view, that we should be vetting and verifying those stories first and ensure accuracy. You are every bit entitled to that view. I hold a view that these forums serve more like wikipedia in that regard, and we can post incomplete, speculative or 'hot off the press' unproven news, and thru latter contributions we will arrive at the truth.

We both have every right to our positions and it should not even be an argument. You post your way and I will mine. But that never works for you and we had pages of arguments as you kept saying to me the same BS you say here of 'hopefully i have learned something and can move on', as if it was not a difference of opinion and your position is correct by virtue of you holding it (Carlin meme).

In most instances out arguments are not about the issue or substance but rather how you address matters of opinion, how you scold, how you lie and provoke. You control those things and 'hopefully if you take any lesson away from all this you will learn those types of things generally never prompt good conversations or learnings'.

The other thing you do after woke scolding and virtue signalling is complain about being 'tone policed', which is your way of saying 'don't speak out against my most disgusting of behaviors. Let me, be me'.

None of that is going to be granted to uke as, i often say, you are not my boss. I feel enormously sorry for any students you get to boss as you certainly expose yourself as being disgusting in how you engage in discussion with people you say you are just trying to help to understand things.

I can only imagine how many 'bad' students you have outed and shamed while shining up your side of the engagement, after the fact, as you just trying to be helpful.

Fortunately, we aren't dealing with weird aliens from a far away place and we haven't been raised by wolves so we can hopefully use our basic knowledge of context to navigate extremely simple interactions with our fellow human beings.

I am going to stop you there and ask you to elaborate as uke has ALWAYS made the point that getting the language right is not hard.

He is not speaking to correcting yourself afterwards. He is dressing people down for making the mistake up front and saying 'it is not hard to get it right'.

So again I ask you If 'you are going to believe them' and then you only find out 'after' others disagree and consider it wrong, firstly how is that easy to parse and get it right?

Second, how is the lay person to know which of the conflicting parties is correct?


There are some 75+ gender categories. If someone tells they are 'XYZ' and I believe but it turns out they chose something controversial and that others have decided should not be accepted how do i know that?

Am i too google and research FIRST before even replying to the person to get it correct?



This area of gender evolution, is again probably the biggest expansion of language evolution in more of our lifetimes. Most of the population is unaware of it to any meaningful degree.

The amount of spin and denial people on this forum engage in, in an attempt to simply not acknowledge this is not easy for more people, that they will be boht unaware and ignorant for some time, after new language is accepted and new norms created, and they may still make the same prior mistakes due to that lack of exposure is telling.


Left based forums and people on the far left more generally have no desire to give any room to 'others', to catch up, to learn the new norm and instead race to demonstrate how they are up on it, and thus you are 'bad' people', and wrong for not also being there.

There are all sorts of voices coming forth (Obama did again just recently) to speak out against this type of woke shaming as boring and unproductive and yet you can see how addicted uke is to it, each and every time he is presented with an opportunity to do it.

No.

it is discuss how a hetero cis dude is to know in advance that when a person writes i identify as a transmale, that there is a dispute in that community and that trans male is considered the proper addressing.

Especially when that cis male is being told 'this is easy. Just believe and accept how the person identifies', AND... 'you are wrong to not know that way of being addressing is considered an insult by many in the community and should not be used'.


Trolly you have ganstaman saying 'use transmale if the person identifies that way' and ganstaman is a professional in this area, or as close to that as we have.

Is ganstaman wrong as you and uke suggest with your positions?

And all the noise aside. The above is core of this issue. A very valid thing for anyone not in the community to ask for help understanding.

That is what I did. I said inflammatory. I merely asked. It was met with derision, insults and belittling from uke and Trolly as something I should know already because it is 'easy'.

Even ganstaman and uke cannot get on the same page, but it is supposed to be easy for me (every day people) to parse.

You deliberately ignore that as I posted transmen identifying themselves in that way and we are being told 'they are wrong' and 'we are to ignore how they identify' from you and uke but ganstaman says we should respect it and use how they identify.

You ignore as you are Oobooing for them, and not truly interested in their POV.

I think sometimes it's easy and sometimes it's not. I think this specific one is one of the easy ones. I agree that people like to scold and feel superior.

There are probably closer to 0 gender categories.

There is a lot of claims about me made in that post-storm, most of which aren't my position, so just to be excessively clear my central message is completely banal: I think we should follow examples like the GLADD media reference guide which clearly states that it is "trans man" and not "transman". Do you think they are wrong?

Here is the link which is quite useful for many bits of terminology. Hope this helps somebody: https://www.glaad.org/reference/trans-terms

Can we move on from talking about me now?