I have not, although I have tried. I've found a number of quotes in different articles, and the ones I've shared here I've seen in multiple places, but I haven't heard him said the words himself. Given what I've seen him say previously on the issues at hand, I feel like my shots are being made in a fair bit of light, but I have no iron clad evidence to provide you to back that up.

Most of what you (spaceman Bryce) say in the post above is pretty accurate. I have had a few friends I met while playing poker who I did some other activities with, but not too many, and none now live nearby.
I was a professional poker player for several years, now usually play twice a week. I've always loved playing games of any sort and never was a gambler. Just got into poker seriously because it was a game where I could also make extra money.

As a child I was the nerdy kid who always scored the highest on tests so suffered from some teasing, but luckily I was larger than the average boy so didn't get much physical bullying, and I always had a few friends of both genders to hang out with. That may have contributed to my preference for female friends as an adult.

I just call an activity masculine or feminine as a shortcut based on who the majority of participants are.
Even as a young child at big family gatherings I spent most of my time with female cousins (happened to not have many male ones), and sometimes even staying with the adult women while most of the men (and my brother) were sitting around the TV watching sports.

5 south,
While i'm here I wanted to say to 5 south, yeah you're right my example is weird and your example is much more normal. my example is reflective of how I found the overall conversation at that point. also, phone typos! but my posts are close enough to what I intended to convey that it's like, everyone knows what I meant right?
But yeah I don't think the average guy would be anywhere near a big enough ******* for my example to your question to be relevant.

I think you as a psychiatrist ought to just be able to explain what this innate sense is like.

What about the people who claim to not have this sense?

Also you have to realize that defining gender identity as "an innate sense of gender" is circular and absurd.

While I'm traveling it's a bit different because a significant percentage of the people that I come across--both male and female-- are cool and interesting people who share some common interests.

In the US mostly males are just for sports and gambling.

Gangstaman,

Do people have an innate sense of racial identity and if not why not?

I love that idea that if someone thinks they don't have a gender they should consider seeing a psychologist.

Saying someone "needs a psychologist" is just the new calling someone 'insane' in an attempt to discredit them without actually saying they're insane, since calling someone insane is offensive but saying you need a psychologist is "caring".

It's not a real suggestion.

I suggested asking a psychologist because that's what I would do. I have a Psychologist and a Lawyer that I speak to often. I tend to favor asking my lawyer legal questions and my psychologist questions like the one chillrob posted. Many important people have a lawyer and a psychologist and that's standard.
There is no reason to stigmatize asking a psychologist questions, or mental illness- not that asking a psychologist questions indicates mental illness. That's a mean thing to do.

Also I didn't just say go to a psychologist I gave him my best guess as to what the issue is and had a constructive dialogue.
If my intention was to make fun of chillrob I would've focused on this:



of course I noticed that but didn't say anything, because I wanted to have an open dialogue.

I'm with chillrob. I have never once thought about it and said to myself, "Yup, I'm a man". I'm just me. Probably because everything about me is in "agreement" (I'm sure this is a bad word choice, but I can't come up with anything better to describe it). There's just no reason to think about it. I'm sure that if things were different it would cause me to have questions that would need answering.

It's because "identity" is super shallow.

It's all just as artificial-- gender identity, racial identity, national identity etc. You share a certain amount of things with a subset of people and so you "identity" with them-- you are able to relate to them in some sort of way.

As a US American in South America it's always nice to come across another US American here and being able to relate to them is always going to be the easiest. National identity is definitely a lot more salient for me than race or gender-- I definitely don't have a race whereas I only merely almost certainly don't have a gender. I do however have a nationality. Not that I take in pride in it and I've certainly had to apologize for **** that is not my fault on more than one occasion.

But how is someone supposed to relate to males, who make up about 50% of the population? It's too many people.

This seems all pretty silly. Firstly, there are 300M+ americans so this sort of population size argument makes no sense to me. They are both gigantic numbers, and if you are living in the US then like 90%+ of the people you regularly see are americans way bigger than the 50% that are males. I'm not dismissing national identity as a thing, but it seems far less innate then gender or race.


Take my 5 year old. He has dual citizenship, American and Canadian. He has basically zero conception what that means. Like, he vaguely knows he was born in this mythical place called Cincinnati but we left when he was 1.5 and outside of pointing to the US on the globe has no understanding of this. It's just photos of a different apartment. But basic gender identity is super important to his worldview right now, like the neighbourhood kids all naturally play boys vs girls and stuff like that. Maybe when he grows up this dual citizienship will be important, maybe he fluctuates between both or goes to college in the US I have no idea, but that identity if it becomes important to him seems far less likely to be innate and far more a culturally developed concept sometime in teenage/adulthood.

I didn't take any offense at the suggestion. However, some people here definitely take offense at less.

That's... mildly unusual, I would think.

I'm not in the US. Sometimes I don't come across Americans for weeks. I agree that being in the US would make the category less salient.

When I was a Canadian living in the US I barely cared. Like sometimes I would say "invigilate" and students would give me confused looks and I'd have to remember that americans say "proctor" instead. I dunno, it just never felt particularly significant. Like if I'm walking into a social settings of course I'm going to notice the hot girl, and with some proper socialization hopefully don't make an ass of myself for noticing this if they are a student or colleague or whatever, but I'm not particularly likely to notice or care if the hot girl is american or canadian. These types of gender/sexuality things just feel like way way way more integral than nationality.

Ok try living in a place where almost everyone speaks Spanish and get back to me about you how you feel about nationality after that.

Canadians are basically honorary Americans fwiw.

And I guarantee if you did and came across a gay black Canadian in Latin America, you'd have more in common than any white straight Latino.

I have no reason to think that the article was misquoting Trump.

I couldn't even find the video on Truth Social

I dated this Kenyan girl for a minute-- she was like the 2nd youngest of 5 and she had lived in the US from when she was 14. Her youngest sister was like 14 at the time and had lived in the US since she was 7, so half her life and all of her formative years, and she was basically an American in ways that her family never could be in terms of speech and attitude, and it was super easy to feel that when I was at their house or at their family functions.

I think you are making my point, not yours. My claim isn't that nationality can't be very important. It obviously can be. But it is often quite situation dependent, where pretty much everyone is affected by their sense of gender/sexuality across cultures.

Your claim is that gender and race are more important than nationality, but the fact that you would have more in common with the gay/trans black Canadian than you would the white Latino is proving my point and not yours.

And obviously not everyone is affected by gender since multiple people in this thread are claiming to not have a clue what being a certain gender is supposed to feel like.

I don't think I ever used a word equivalent to more important. That is presumably quite individual and depends on a lot of each person's context. My claim is that a sense of gender identity is much more innate, as in this is a thing most five year olds have a clear sense of, and something that sticks with us through pretty much every society, while national identity is very much a late blooming notion that absolutely can be super important in some contexts (and not at all in others). So sure, if you are in a culture shock situation where you have a very different background than the country you are currently residing in, of course that is going to feel very important, I'm not trying to minimize that, but the fact that you have to construct that kind of situation to make your point I think makes mine.

I have a tough time believing that most 5yos have a clear sense of gender identity, when I have never had one at 53yo.

When I was five year's old I generally liked playing with the girl's toys (e.g. the doll house) in the doctor's waiting room.