haha.

You are simply wrong if you think the message was that someone with gifts no one else has should compete with normies, while just throttling up and down their skill to make it look competitive.

I can't imagine someone being so wrong and so dumb to take that as the take away. Someone who thought the Archie Bunker character pushing it was the one to be taken seriously.

Good thing no one said or suggested that.

I for one, do not think that was on the mind of the creators. Not even a little bit.

They were doing the Sesame Street type thing by just touching on the concept of basic fairness and using Dash's skill as applied to sport to send the message about not exploiting others.

oh yes Cuepee, I was totally being 100% serious with my post, absolutely genius level mind read.

I LMAOed at this one pretty hard.

#Metoo. lol

Imagine thinking the moral of the movie was to use your powers to their maximum and exploit them at the expense of others.

It was just another play on the Spiderman line of 'with great power comes great responsibility', which means do not abuse your powers and hurt others.

Trolly some how watched it and saw the Archie Bunker dad take the opposite roll saying 'oh ya son, abuse your power for personal gain and glory' and could not see they were using mocking juxtaposition. FLOL.

gosh if only there was a trans woman (not transwoman, trans is an adjective) in this thread who could give her opinion


Personally, I don't really care about the pro sports situation. But I do care about school sports and casual leagues. And I care about there being a 100+ page thread on a forum I enjoy, started by an author who I like, mostly filled with people talking about how gross they find trans people. Trans women in sports; and I say trans women, because people seem to mostly ignore the fact that trans men exist, and that forcing a trans man on T to compete against cis women results in unfair competition, but trans women in sports seems to mostly be used as an excuse for politicians to drum up hatred against queers and get re elected. Oh, and a way to attack any trans woman who is successful at anything, even if it has nothing to do with physical form (see: people getting mad that Amy Schneider is the best performing woman ever to be on Jeopardy)

Re: your question about liver cancer, yes trans women should absolutely be a part of the clinical trial. Sometimes differences in medicine are due to genetic information, but more often they are due to hormone differences, and including trans women in a clinical study could make it more clear WHY there is a difference in how it works. And yes, like almost all medical studies, the results should be broken down by subcategories, such as race or assigned sex at birth.

Winning an athletic competition isn’t “exploiting others,” you absolute tit.

What the hell.

If, as they presented in the movie you have super powers no one else does, and you use them to target areas to take advantage and win prizes and money that absolutely is exploiting your powers at the expense of others.

FLOL how do you not understand this.

This is the disease that pervades far too many leftist liberal brains.



This is not even a Super Power. It is merely a man made technology help.

Using this in Olympic powerlifting (any level of sport) would be exploitive.

God you are simple.

Oh look, another absurd strawman QP has conjured up.

Cuepee’s pattern of alternating pictures of trans women and exosuits is……..bizarre. Add pictures from children’s movies to the list and uh do we need to call somebody for help?

QP: how many images of transwomen are on your laptop right now?

Are you still running with the idea that in a cartoon lampooning the responsible use of power, using gov't created super powered beings would not compromise fairness in sport and in now way is exploitation of others?

Do you need a history lesson on what East Germany tried to do, to a much lesser degree, and how the world treated that?

Imagine making a statement that there would be exploitation by Dash in entering and winning sprinting events in sport and then expecting to be taken seriously on the trans discussion.

Imagine being Trolly.

One last thought before I peace out of this thread again:

The easiest answer on how to divide sport competition categories is to make specific rules about who competes in what category, irrespective of gender.

Maybe you have a 'no restrictions' league and a 'testosterone levels under 30pg/ml' league. Or, if as some people in here are claiming, specific body shapes have an unfair advantage over others, code those into the rules; your height-to-arm-length ratio must be less than X to compete in this league or whatever. This will probably force some cis people to compete in leagues different from what they compete in now, but that should be fine, right? I mean, that basically already happens in the Olympics with their hormone level testing that they force some cis women to do.

Hell, it'll allow more people to compete in sports, I'm sure there are people out there who would love to compete in a "no one over six feet tall" basketball league or whatever.

No, everybody certainly isn't assuming that. Some of us aren't especially concerned about that at all; in fact, I'm not sure if anyone in this thread is, but perhaps there are a few exceptions.

Personally, I think there likely does have to be some kind of solution at the top end of competition. My concern is that this is being used by transphobes as a convenient way to exclude trans kids of all ages. That somehow there is no way we can let kids be kids and not worry about whether that Grade 6 girl is "really a girl" (ugh) because somehow inclusivity at that age will inevitably lead to ruining top level competitive sport.

And to be clear here, I'm not suggesting anyone ITT is (or isn't) a transphobe. I try not to get into soul-reading on intent. But there is zero question in my mind that this kind of thing is used by true transphobes to further their pathetic goals. We see this kind of tactic more and more these days; this one follows on the heels of all the shock and horror over more LGBTQ+ inclusive teaching and how that meant we're now confusing kindergarten kids and teaching them that they can't call their parents Mom & Dad, allowing the LGBTQ community to indoctrinate them, and all sorts of other nonsense.

It’s too bad that top-level leagues like the WNBA haven’t thought of this already and implemented transgender policies that work reasonably well.

Those rules are evolving because most originally, when drafted were done on a theoretical basis when there were not yet top trans women, competing at the upper echelons of sport.

So the most ignorant and short sighted of activists was pushing a narrative that was to ignore the slippery considerations. That there was no reason to believe trans women actually had an edge, 'just look at current results'.

it was foolish and stupid as anyone with a brain, as I was one of the first (if not the first) to point out, that trans women will see an increase of cross overs and way out of proportion top finishes based on a tiny population number.,

That has now become abundantly clear in High school sport, Olympic sport, and other top levels of sport FORCING a revisiting of the prior rules.

It will happen in the WNBA and it will happen in the female prisons and as things swing to my position (inevitable that I will be provided right once again) and you guys will move on as if 'of course that makes sense and that was not what we were ever arguing', usual refrain.

to Ranma what you propose would require an entire re-ordering of everything sport and would not happen. People don't generally like change, especially to their beloved sports, and that would change everything.

Instead the answers are A) additional trans divisions, or B) they use the Recreational SPorts leagues which were built for the reasons of accommodating exactly these type of differences.

Leagues that already do allow for competition, and comradery and 90% of the things you get from Competitive Sport.

There are things in ones life that can exclude them from competitive sport and that is fine. This idea that Competitive sport must find a way to accommodate anything and everything is simply wrong.

Telling a trans person that their transition does not allow them now to fit within the established rules of Competitive sport and the concept of a Fair Playing Field, should be fine. telling them a world of sport in Recreational Leagues, some enormously competitive, where they fit and are welcome should be fine.

Activists have infantilized trans athletes in very bad ways by telling them the rest of the world is wrong to not simply change every rule or throw them all out to accommodate them.

The general idea that ideas that are probably correct should be suppressed because bad people will latch on to them to convince regular people to think bad thoughts, is very debatable. Especially when those who think this suppression is a good idea, simultaneously think that those who are easily influenced by these bad people are essential in determining who will lead us.

Nobody ITT - including bobo - is making this argument.

I think there already is under six foot leagues. Few want to watch them. The truth is that when it's not Olympic time there are really only four sports that come to mind that excite lots of people involving athletes that are not the best in the world. College basketball, college football, women's tennis, and below heavyweight fighting.

There are a significant amount of people who do not care on iota about competitive sport. They never participated and see little to no value in it and some are jealous that it provides both an alternative path to high level education (without paying for it) and then some of the highest paying jobs available. And all that is fine. No one has to like or care about sports. And many had no qualms (including in this thread) of making the threat known that they would jus see all sport scrapped if inclusion could not be accommodated. They don't have the numbers (yet) to make tht threat meaningful but in the future they might.

The only time they have cared or paid much attention is over this trans issue. In many of their world views there is no value in sport that could be greater than inclusion. Trans inclusion. A space like Competitive Sport that has always been by default the ultimate exclusion zone, chopping people into groups as best they can to allow them to compete on the basis of a fair playing field. I think it is because it is the ultimate exclusion zone that forcing trans women in, despite the obvious unfairness is so important to the activists. Breaking that zone should mean all others should follow.

And they would have broken through as the desire and intent from most of the top sporting bodies was there. Early rules all favoured full inclusion at the expense of other factors. But they did so on a wing and prayer that early trans women results would hold consistent where they were marginally competitive but not winning and certainly not running away from the field. The purposefully accepted delusion of 'prove they have any real advantage... look at current result'.

It was delusional folly to assume with greater numbers soon to come in and more relevant athletes willing to transition that it would not change... and quick. And ultimately that was the undoing and it is happening as fast as I predicted. Turning a blind eye to an obvious lie simply cannot hold up in Sport. A very visual medium. On issues such as trans women in prisons the activists can obfuscate, use whataboutism sand selective stats to 'change the page' or ensure the topic raised gets drowned out in other noise but with Sport, that simply is not possible. The medium is too visual and too instant in its gratification or disappointment. People watch to see the best test themselves against the best, but the concept only has meaning if the contestants share a Fair Playing Field. They will watch Michael Jordan against other adult men, some shorter and some much taller and that is fair, but they would not watch MIchael Jordan if transitioned to the WNBA. The sport would die.

You can see how deep and fundamental the misunderstanding of sport is by so many here (and that is fine) in that they look at a picture like this...



...and assume that creates an unfair playing field. It does not. And I think many of them would be shocked which of these two would be picked first by any team. That is how deep their lack of understanding as to what makes for a fair playing field is.

This is a significant oversimplification. Joel Embiid as a transgender athlete would make a mockery of woman's basketball in a way that no athlete could ever make a mockery of the NBA. And that would not be good for women's sports or the WNBA. I'm finding it hard to believe that anyone seriously disputes this point. That said, there is no reason for hysteria. Joel Embiid is not going to come out as transgender in order to dominate the WNBA.

Overall, I guess that I agree with Bobo. Elite transgender athletes are rare. Most transgender athletes will fit in just fine in women's sports. The benefits to transgender athletes of being allowed to compete are obvious. Below a certain level of competition (and I'm not sure where that level is), I don't think that anyone needs to be concerned about this issue. But the issue is not being ignored, and should not be ignored, at the highest levels of women's athletics.

So one player can have a huge physical advantage over another and it's still a fun competitive sport? Good to know.


There is nothing stopping Jordan from doing this right now! And yet the WNBA survives! Almost like you're worrying about **** that isn't really a problem!

Yes. Absolutely ****ing yes.

And as usual you are clueless on the actual point as it goes over your head.

Transgender women bring an advantage no cis gender women have. The same advantage a cis man would bring to the women's sport. That is the issue. That is the problem.

The difference between Mugsy and Bol above is not something no other cis man has, as proven by the photo. And in that photo who do you assume is the better player? Bet you get it wrong.

uke and others tried this asinine 'but not every cis male or cis women is the same... so gotcha' nonsense 10 pages back and it was rightly mocked and laughed off the forum then.


That there are differences between cis men competing against cis men or cis women competing against cis women is not good logic for why trans women should get a fully open door to women's sport against cis women bringing an advantage no cis women has access to.

I'm sure it's been covered and is probably considered politically incorrect, but why not just go with the chromosomes? XX versus XY period. In the rare cases where there is an anomaly there, rule on case by case basis. But you don't just get to declare which category you are in (for the purposes of competition and sport).