Nobody said they were 'universal across human history'.
One could make a very fair case that they were part/parcel of a vastly higher integrity society with significantly superior values than the society we have today and your having to reference ancient Greek sodomites to make your case on human sexuality shows just how utterly weak your case it is.

And now you twirl around and say "straman" because you were headed off at the pass on "ignorant (x)ist (x)phobe", which isn't really showing me anything here other than you're a predictible left wing drone who supports your beliefs with buzzwords but the moment you have to support them logically, you say IGNORANT (x)IST (x)PHOBE and anything presented is a 'stawman', like the bot you are.

is that a fact in your opinion?

I understand what fact means and that it was poorly phrased fwiw. it's very hard to be factual about this as there are no facts. you can't look into the people's minds. you can just guess here.

Sure, and there's "Pro LGBTQIARX Islam", too.
They're groups that exist outside of the mainstream beliefs/theology of their own religion and are nothing more than popular-zeitgeist shells of what their religion actually stands for.

So, point stands; you banned the guy for maintaining mainstream Christian beliefs.
Why not just come out and say it?

The various groups who were once mainstream but are now becoming marginalized are very much justified in having the persecution complex they do.

I simply asked if "trans woman" was a man dressed up as a woman or a woman dressed up as a man, since I'm not sure about the new rules of conversation.

That question is both 1) logical 2) fair but regretably might force them to articulate their beliefs in plain terms that are so absurd, even they cannot hold their nose and do it while keeping a straight face and expecting others to take them seriously, so better to just end the discussion all together than force them to actually say, out loud, "OK, so a "trans woman" is someone who is born as a woman but dresses up as a man" and expect anyone to do anything other than chuckle at what they so deeply believe.

The trans issue is one that gets into depths of absurdity that literally no other far-left issue does, so mocking and/or trolling them is as simple as making them explain themselves.

Oh really?

This is exactly what you are saying, that current views on homosexuality are at odds with the entirety of human history, which forms a uniformity of seeing homosexuality as perverted.

I mentioned the Greeks, because their thought and philosophy echoes through our civilisation, sorry for not making an exhaustive list but one example is enough to show how limited and ignorant of basic facts your perspective is.

The above ironically is of course a total and utter clear cut lazy strawman, because I have not once used the words ist or phobe in my conversation with you, nor have I intended do.

Your arguments are not only dumb they are lazy as ****.

A few years were taken up by those romans

Not to mention Oxbridge

Indeed, you've done an excellent job here of demonstrating your transphobic characterization of the basic terminology. A trans person isn't dressing up in a gender different from their sex at birth, they are a gender different from their sex at birth.

Why does it bother you so much where consenting adults want to put their pee-pees? Does it affect you in some way?

National heroes like Alan Turing being chemically castrated and going onto commit suicide are down though.

The values of the 50s did not last for ever because you cant keep humanity in a box it does not fit in without excessive use of repressive apparatus.

I couldn't care less.
What bothers me is the cultural emphasis on bizarre sexual behaviors and the left's elevation of said for purposes that go much, much deeper than they seem.

Also, point of fact but the 'consenting adults' selector is under attack as we speak, just as "man and woman" was once considered something valid and worth factoring into an equation.

What the **** is this?

I say dumb and lazy because that is exactly what you were, I am arguing against your use of history, which you used in a dumb way, and you keep on insisting with this lazy straw manning, trying to argue against things I never said and had no intention of saying.

Making up an argument and arguing against it is the absolute essence of what you are doing.

You insist on doing this on an epic scale.

Maybe don't do this part

Would he not be cherrypicking, though?
The values of the 50's had their issues, but we're throwing out the baby with the bathwater and now entering a society where children shoot up their schools and opioid overdoses are sky high because our cultural emphasis is on elevating bizarre sexual perversions of fringe groups... or 13 years of institutional study of 'oppressed peoples' rather than emphasizing things that make us a healthier and happier society, like family and strengthening certain institutions that have been the fabric of civilization for a very long time.

I think its possible to have those values AND not oppress Mr Turing, or have Jim Crow, but the far left doesn't seem to be open to this conversation and insist that unless trannies are reading to kids in schools, blacks will be oppressed by the KKK.

Why is that?

Transgender does not have to have anything to do with people dressing up as anything. A trans person can dress as a man or a woman and still be a trans person. Same as with cis people.

So asking the question "Is a trans woman a man dressed up as a woman or a woman dressed up as a man" is ignorant and the answer is "yes, or possibly no."

Hopefully that helps

I just went with you photo which seemed circa 50s.

If you really want someone to blame, dont blame the left, blame consumer capitalism.

FREE markets dont want sexual repression, they dont was suppression of any desire, **** who you want, eat drink what you want. CONSUME what you want, when you want, and we will sell it to you.

The logics of consumer capitalism are absolutely diametrically opposed to the uniformity of the nuclear family.

Consumer capitalism wants to organise human life, not have some legacy of tradition get in the way.

Consumer capitalism does not want any social force other than itself organising human life.

No. I'm an adult.

Bro, you literally brought up Christopher St gay parades and partying with gays. I'd assume at a gay parade that there are more gays around than during other times in the year.

If your point was that 2% of people in bars are gay and the other 98% patronize the same bars but in private disclose to others that they don't condone homosexual acts and that makes them hypocrites, then lol.

Edit: Whoops: mixed up my transphobes.

Casually comparing homosexuality to SLAVERY AND CANIBALLISM.

Super cool, good job everyone. Handshakes all around

Go learn what a 'comparison' is.
You're a good example of why IQ tests use metaphors.

no f kidding its lol.

Also again showing your historical ignorance.

The ancient Greeks where more civilised and technologically advanced than humanity through most if not all the Middle Ages.

The rediscovery and adoption of ancient Greek and classical thought is literally called The Renaissance.

It is a good starting point for discussion.

Ill go first.

https://fenwayhealth.org/new-study-s...idal-ideation/



https://www.forbes.com/sites/dawnsta...h=48128b875d25

"The organization said its peer-reviewed research paper found that gender-affirming hormone therapy, also known as GAHT, is significantly related to lower rates of depression, suicidal thoughts, and suicide attempts by young people who identify as transgender and/or nonbinary."

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentra...889-015-1867-2

"Social support, reduced transphobia, and having any personal identification documents changed to an appropriate sex designation were associated with large relative and absolute reductions in suicide risk, as was completing a medical transition through hormones and/or surgeries (when needed). Parental support for gender identity was associated with reduced ideation. "

https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/trgh.2021.0079

"Each category of adult and peer gender identity acceptance was associated with lower odds of a past-year suicide attempt, with the strongest associations within each individual category being acceptance from parents (adjusted odds ratio [aOR]=0.57) and other family members (aOR=0.51). The TGNB youth who reported gender identity acceptance from at least one adult had one-third lower odds of reporting a past-year suicide attempt (aOR=0.67), and acceptance from at least one peer was also associated with lower odds of a past-year suicide attempt (aOR=0.66). Peer acceptance was particularly impactful for transgender youth (aOR=0.47). The relationship between adult and peer acceptance remained significant after controlling for the association of each form"

So people in society who equate trans people and homosexual people to literal slavers and cannibals are increasing trans suicide. But you don't care about that even an iota and are only using it as a shitty talking point. You're welcome to prove me wrong, but each shitty word you spout about trans people being fake and "dressing up as a man" leads to an increase in their suicidal ideations. Congrats!

It is. You're asserting that straight people shouldn't go to bars where 2% gay people hang out unless they condone everything gay people do.

Incoherent theoretical nonsense that idiots claim is 'education'.
You're repeating theology here, no different than "... and the lord says, this bread and wine is my body and blood".
Those people DEEPLY BELIEVE that, just as you DEEPLY BELIEVE what you just wrote, there.
Those people DEEPLY BELIEVE that anyone who disagrees just doesn't 'get it'. They're just 'ignorant'.
You DEEPLY BELIEVE that anyone who disagrees your gibberish there has any validity at all just doesn't 'get it'. They're just 'ignorant'.
You're both fools, cut from different ends of the same cloth.

The left is big on dismantling institutions that make for strong societies because historically, strong societies have reacted quite poorly to those same people and they wind up in a bad spot.
One thing where the left deserves MASSIVE credit is their probative stuff into the human psyche just prior to, during and after WWII, where they nailed the motivations people have for believing as they do and how life-or-death important it was for them to reshape human societies in a way that didn't hold certain values that might have been good for the functionality of those societies, but didn't turn out so good for groups of people who usually held certain values.

Weaponizing marginal groups in the name of 'stopping oppression' is Chapter 3.
Elevating them to heroic status in a society, replacing traditional heroes, is important.

Not 'historical ignorance'.
Slavery and indentured servitude was a big part of that same society.
Just playing by your own rules. Or does slavery get a pass if the same society also allows homosexuality?

Read up- homosexuality with slaves was a BIG thing in your lauded society.

Ignorant...