Nobody has ever claimed this.

On the other hand you did imply this, whether intentionally or not, when you replied to itshot's point about talk of good cops being a deflection from the actual issue dealing with bad cops by saying:


Obviously a non-zero percentage of bad cops are dealt with appropriately. The issue is that that percentage would seem to be far too low, which is supported by how much horrendous behaviour by police has been caught on video over the last few weeks.

I'm sure there are plenty of good people who are police officers, but the culture in most police forces seems to be bad to the point of corrupting the actions of even the good officers to the extent that they very rarely speak out about the bad ones or in the cases where someone does speak up they are frequently ostracised as a result.

It's just the nature of that society and that particular federal system. I don't think the German federal system allows that much play for local law enforcement, for instance. But the US system was deliberately set up that way for certain reasons (including slave suppression in the southern states) back in the day and it's very difficult to reform.

I'll rephrase it so- it's simply untrue to strongly intimate bad cops aren't dealt with

Which is an implication on your part that I said "each and every single bad cop in the entire history of bad cops are dealt with", which I didn't. I said bad cops- such as the examples I gave- are dealt with. Which they are, by and large.


Exactly hence my truism that bad cops are dealt with, some proportionately, others not so much, like in any fallible large body run by fallible humans.
You mean during the middle of contextual full scale riots? And if anything they're contextually dealt with even quicker such as the Georgia shooting and death of George Floyd.

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It simply seems that way against the backdrop of recent events so the police are subject to greater scrutiny which to clarify is no bad thing at all as they're answerable to the people ultimately.

Again lots of institutions including regular mundane employment institutions have the same attitude, it's not exclusive to the police force. It's more entrenched due to the nature of the work involved.

It's neither a case of ACAB or the institution being inherently rotten any more than it's a case of the institution or every individual being beyond reproach. That's not how reality works. Change will come over time that's how it's always been. In America in particular there's other factors at play such as race issues, availability of firearms and political tribalism to the point where things are seen in absolutist terms. All of these things contribute to thee current malaise.

Doesn't change the fact that law enforcement is still a necessity whether people like this or not, even if like any body law enforcement can do with reform. The necessity is why I support blue lives overall even if I think there's merit in room for improvement.

Yeah, it's a whole bunch of individual institutions. Which is why the focus should be on local political leaders.

I'm sure more cops die every year of the flu than are killed on the job.

Your uber driver has a more dangerous job, and he gets sued if he shoots you

Everyone knows if you want to shoot passengers you need to drive a cab.

"Horne said she lost her pension after being fired, while the officer she stopped will still receive his pension when he is released from prison for another beating."

So brutal. This **** has to stop.
Is it really so radical to say that if you do something in the line of duty that ends up putting you in prison that your pension should not remain untouched?

1. Law Enforcement attracts a disproportionate amount of people who are power-hungry bullies.

2. While not a foolproof method, the optimal way to avoid being brutalized by cops is to obey the Ten Commandments.

3. Any cop who abuses or neglects their duty to PROTECT the public should be punished.

People should take note that we are at a point where, yes, some people really do not care if cops get killed (in Trumps own words, they knew what they signed up for)

Many of us are not okay with this, but that's sort of the point. We should want to do the things necessary to reduce the number of people who are indifferent to loss of life

You can scream blue lives matter until you're blue in the face, it doesn't matter

There is a growing disdain of police, yet another public outcry about systemic oppression, and this will continue until the public is satisfied. Pointing at the victims, pointing at the screwballs who inject mayhem to undermine the peacefully sent message, and expressing sympathy for good police who are caught in a nightmare scenario, is wholly irrelevant

The cops are viewed as the enemy because to a person of color they are the enemy. You don't get to choose why or why not that's valid. Your job is to learn, understand, accept, and adapt

Again, that growing disdain of police is a reflection of the fact that no, cops absolutely do not suffer the consequences of their actions. In fact, they are still insulated, shielded, and rewarded for their worst deeds. Until that changes, you can expect more people to lose patience and also begin to believe that killing cops or inciting scary violence and destruction is the necessary action to inspire and drive change

No amount of logic or data or perceived superior intellect is going to matter if you can't or refuse to understand how governance needs to change in order for the people to change

Yeah David Dorn's life doesn't matter as he was blue. Never mind he was a grandfather trying to protect the community. Never mind that he was a also a person of colour cuz he wasn't a real person of colour due to being blue of course. He just doesn't matter. And the police are the enemy to every single solitary poc in America all several million of them because every single person of colour has their stories and those who don't aren't real people of colour either, they're "bs grifters like Candace Owens" according to one comment made here. And the people of colour in law enforcement aren't real people of colour either with their own opinions and desire to keep the streets safer, nah. They're just blue and useful idiots, tools of oppression who betray their "own" people.

And this isn't pushing a narrative, no siree it's the simple truth and if anyone disagrees, well hey they simply don't understand what it's like to live in Amerikkka which has apparently reverted back to the 19th century if the comments here are anything to go by, with no people of colour having a hope in hell of ever becoming mayors, police chiefs, or US presidents and if they are, well they're all just tokens anyway- window dressing used as a cunning ruse. BS grifters you might say

So we all just have to accept it and understand. Because David Dorn is just a symbol of oppression isn't he? Cut from the same ilk who put away the likes of the Boston Bomber, the Golden State killer and nazi scumbags like Dylan Roof. So nobody should feel sympathy for him or his family or friends because again we all have to accept and understand...except when there's a crime committed against you and you and you too. Then they're everyone's daddy aren't they?

Not all police are American either. Some like the ones over my way are more community oriented.
So I will continue to support blue lives, like David Dorn and like detective Colm Horkan over my way murdered for doing his job and keeping my community safe. Regardless of what some American cop haters think of this and regardless what political narrative they insist on peddling.

^ what in the **** is this going on about?

David Dorn was a retired civilian, start your post over again

Dude, you've already demonstrated in fantastic fashion that you have no clue what reality is like on the ground here--so why do you keep persisting as if you do?

saw a meme that reminded me of this thread..

said to the effect,

the fact that the cops could take a still from a video, identify a partial t-shirt logo, track the t-shirt to etsy, get the etsy store to tell them the list of buyers, and identify the person that is accused of lighting a police car on fire during on of the protests, shows that it's not that the police cant find your stolen goods or solve more crimes, it's just that they dont work for you and dont care enough to.

Did they do that??

also relevant to this thread.

my late father was a baltimore city police officer. I'm a blue family. salute my blue fam, dammit. salute!

i guess technically it was the fbi. but yes it seems so.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/17/fbi-na...shirt-to-etsy/

I know he was and he appears to have gotten precious little empathy due to his former blue status.
I know I know Amerikka etc

No problem I do salute him.

Overall this has been a good thread to read; there have been some questionable posts, but I'm picking up a lot of new info and different insights.

I'm torn on what to think about the Blue Flu in Atlanta. It's got to be frustrating as an officer to know that if you use appropriate force against someone trying to hit you with a taser they just took off you, you could go to jail for life, solely for political purposes.

But be that as it may, these police were sworn in to protect and serve, and it is prohibited by law to strike.
And its the lower-class citizens (as always) that will suffer the most due to the lack of a police presence. In a surprising twist, if you give criminals more leeway to commit crimes, they will do so in greater numbers, and they'll prey on those that can't help themselves.

It's one of the reasons I support blue lives because unlike some people here who probably grew up in nice suburban areas, I grew up in what Americans would call a project or UK posters a sink estate and I've seen precisely the damage criminals can cause to communities and the decent law abiding people in them who get tarred with the same brush as the criminals due to the damage they cause and the image they give to the community. I've also seen the exact same issues effect my neighbourhood apparently get attributed to lower income black communities in America, which is why I've no time for racists who prattle incessantly about black criminality blah blah. In my neighbourhood it was class discrimination. That's the problem with America. Everything's about race so everyone's at each others throats too blind to see that poor knows no colour. When racial issues are added to lower economic class and firearms thrown into the mix to boot it's a recipe for disasters. And the racial issue ensures that people with actual strong commonalities will remain divided instead of uniting while those with the most privileged colour of all- green- just keep on laughing as the lower classes endlessly jump through hoops.

Cops don't bother working on stolen goods cases because a lot of DAs don't bother to prosecute them. Chicago and California are great examples of this. They've made any theft under $1,000 a misdemeanor and the activist DAs don't bother to prosecute misdemeanor thefts in the interest of social justice

the problem you're having is, if you knew anything about america and it's history you would understand that Racism is a major reason why we have generation spanning poverty among communities. trying to take "race" out of a socio-economic discussion in the United States is willfully ignoring the major precipitating factor of this poverty and makes those arguments looks ridiculous.

oh yeah that's the solution we're missing MORE draconian criminal penalties and more power for cops and "activist" prosecutors..

also lol at trying to "liberalize" the argument. theft under 1000 dollars is a misdemeanor in the great liberal state of OKLAHOMA as well..

No I'm aware of that it's what I meant by people with strong commonalities being divided due to it. I'm not in favour of narratives political or otherwise but that doesn't mean I'm unaware racism exists in America, I'm all too aware of that. Divide and rule's always worked throughout history, no reason why it wouldn't work in contemporary America today.

::shrugs:: certainly couldn't be any correlation between racist food deserts and unprosecuted theft