Your position is so lacking in nuance that it can't be taken seriously. You argument, reconstructed to be less pithy, is a fetus is a life, taking a life is murder, abortion takes the fetus's life, ergo, abortion is murder. Let's leave alone the question of whether a fetus is a morally relevant life-in-being. I find it suspect that you actually believe that any instance in which one takes life is murder. Here are some examples that are, to varying degrees of acceptance, not considered murder: self-defense; capital punishment; assisted suicide; offensive warfare; political assassination; removing someone from life support; and failing to provide life-saving aid.

We can distinguish the last two on my list from the others by separating positive rights (the right to something) from negative rights (the right to not have something done to you). I tend to view that distinction as a bit artificial, but we also don't need to have that debate because based on your politics I suspect you're fine with many of the other examples anyway as not constituting "murder." The latter two examples, I note, are often used as rough analogues to abortion, in the sense that a fetus is effectively using the mother as a life-support system.

Assuming you don't view some of the other examples as "murder," we get to the flaw in your argument. There is something more than just taking life that makes it "murder." Indeed, murder is a legal construct, with corresponding statutory and common law definitions and defenses. So, the question becomes what conditions make the taking of a life immoral, and whether abortion meets those conditions, Your argument doesn't even attempt to grapple with this. You'll never convince anyone who doesn't agree with you with this type of low-energy posting.

Game. Set. Match.

I personally really dislike this argument. It's essentially the favored argument of the left these days ("my body, my choice"). And it has a certain rhetorical appeal, and it certainly has some synergies with the me-too zeitgeist of the last five or so years. But it's really unconvincing to those who don't already agree with you because if a fetus is a morally relevant life entitled to be protected, a lot of people are going to value those rights more highly than the right to bodily autonomy of the mother, especially in cases where the mother chose (or something close to chose) to get pregnant, i.e. not cases of rape, incest, etc.

I think there's good arguments that intersect with the bodily autonomy of pregnant persons, but this one is just too simplistic.

Very well put.

Do we need an Abortion thread? Personally, I see it as a mod nightmare like several other heated topics. But...... this discussion really doesn't need to be litigated in the Trump thread.

There is an abortion thread already.

Nobody has been convinced otherwise on this site since its inception. I wouldn't bother to try. I couldn't care less if you want to construct some long-form response to justify the murder of human life that abortion is. Abortion is wrong.

As I stated earlier, its legality is above my pay grade (and all of yours, too). FWIW Planned Parenthood was founded with racist intent and most abortions are not had for medical reasons but for selfishness and a lack of accountability. Plan B can be taken within a few days after questionable intercourse/rape/etc.

To summarize, I won't comment on it's legality. I think most things should be legal in a free country (guns, most drugs, booze, hookers, poker). Abortion is a little hairy because you are killing something that would otherwise want to live (unless its chillrob).

This is a pretty long post for one that doesn't bother to address a "long-form response." In any case, as it has been pointed out, this isn't the abortion thread so no need to continue this further. I will leave you with the following parting comment. You have now twice mentioned the legality of abortion is "above your paygrade" and everyone else's ITT. I'm really not sure what you mean--not because others ITT may be involved in law, lobbying, politics, philosophy, medicine, trauma counseling, and more--but because the fundamental premise of any democracy is that the law is decided by the people. By definition, the law is not above anyone's paygrade, including yours.

Yep, knew that..... wondered if anyone else notice the huge derail.....

Moved posts to here

Republican plan to UNDO Ohio's pro-choice ballot result

GOP: Abortion should be up to the states!
Ohio: Votes for abortion access
GOP: No! That doesn't count!

Peter Singer

Sen. Tommy Tuberville gave a reason as to why he's blocking
hundreds of military promotions and it involves 'abortion after birth'.

Are there no limits to what these Republican voters will believe?