I just saw this post. Of course everyone would save the baby.

But also, if the fertilized eggs got successfully implanted in a donor with the intention of a live birth, and a couple weeks later (well within the timeframe for a legal abortion) someone purposefully shot the donor in the stomach to kill the fetus, my understanding is they would be charged with murder. And nothing really material changed except the environment and a couple weeks of growth.

Like I said, it is all very arbitrary at the edges. And a lot of lawyers have spent a lot of time working out how these edge cases fit into our legal framework, and there is still a lot of gray area and contention.

1) who is calling a one month fetus, a one month baby? I have mostly never heard of a baby being called a baby until after its born

2) why not force women to carry babies that can kill them? because this is america and we believe in freedom, not large tyranical governments that ignore individual rights. You want to punish people, so you are def in the supporting tyranny department

3) have you considered the mothers live as a human that breathes air? youre comparing it to a part of her body that is not separate and cannot breath its own air at this time.

yes about 3 month was what I assumed is the limit. 6 month is just unheard of imo. wtf? that's like a full grown human already.

at 23 weeks.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-l...n/img-20006203

Have you ever been around a pregnant person in the real world? Over the approximately 40 week period you would hear the word baby about 10,000 times and the word fetus 0 times probably.

haha, exactly .

and a baby at 34 weeks is fully bearable. (able to live on its own)
but only 10 weeks earlier, maybe 9 weeks, you can wipe it out of existence no problem.


"When are most babies born?
57.5 percent of all recorded births occur between 39 and 41 weeks.
26 percent of births occur at 37 to 38 weeks.
About 7 percent of births occur at weeks 34 to 36.
About 6.5 percent of births occur at week 41 or later.
About 3 percent of births occur before 34 weeks of pregnancy.
27.02.2020"
https://www.healthline.com › health
How Many Weeks Early Can You Safely Give Birth? - Healthline"

ok youre right.

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/savita-halappanavar

This woman died because Irish law prevented the hospital from removing a nonviable fetus as long as it had a fetal heartbeat even though it was killing the mother.

According to CDC statistics less than 1% of all abortions occur after 21 weeks. No one carries a child for 6 months and just decides at that point that she wants to abort for convenience reasons. Instead, that's the point where excitement and anticipation are building, names being selected, etc. if a dire situation develops that puts the life of the mother at risk, it is incredibly heartbreaking. Extremely difficult decisions must be made. How does a mother, and father, weigh the loss of the fetus against losing the life of the mother? What is the responsibility of the mother to stay alive for her other children versus an unborn fetus?

That decision should only be made by the mother, the father and their doctor. And if they so believe, their religious advisor. But certainly not the government. It is obscene to think that the government can force a woman to die over a fetus. How can they possibly presume to make that call?

But that's exactly what is happening in our country. When you hear of states passing abortion laws with no provisions for life of the mother, that is exactly what they are doing.

I'm wondering how all this fits in with parental responsibilities after birth.

You consent to being a part of the state family law system once you have intercourse with a woman. This includes child support, which you can be jailed for not paying.

Rights and responsibilities are different things

I’m prolife. I concede on first trimester abortions. I think late term should no matter what be illegal except for life of mother. I didn’t vote at all when trump won but I am happy he did win. However, I voted for Biden.

Lindsey is such a drama queen!

Literally everyone assumed he was gay but I’ve never heard it brought up before in the media

He knows babies are not being terminated at birth and beyond but he
still pushes that false narrative knowing full well he is lying yet he still does so.
Also Barrett , Kavenaugh both lied about Roe being settled law, only to do a 180 after their hearings.

I find it interesting u are so easily ready to put so much intent , regulation and responsibilities just for a 5-30m “f u c k “ with a woman and yet being so dismissive with guns …

The mental gymnastics ITT are wild.

So many technicalities and word games to gloss over the fact that the only difference between a freshly conceived child and your new little bundle of joy is 9 months of cook time, barring any complications along the way. Those wheels are set in motion at the moment of conception. The train will arrive at the station unless it gets derailed along the way. Sometimes there are natural accidents, but sometimes people actively destroy the train before it completes its journey. Dick move, for sure.

You can have a strong belief and also not push for strict and absolute adherence to those beliefs, because some things have a certain value to society that outweigh the unpleasantness of the process.

It's okay to be reasonable. Polite society is about give and take.

We're all about second chances here. Most violent crimes are committed by people who already have an official history of wrongdoing. We give them second chances. Some people reform, and others don't and end up killing 10 year old girls doing their homework near a window, because bullets don't give a **** who they pass through when fired haphazardly from a moving vehicle. After it's clear the initial lesson wasn't learned, they [hopefully] lose their freedom and get sent to prison. You no longer get to participate in society because society doesn't need and shouldn't want people like you.

If you screw up and decide you need an abortion; okay. That's not cool, but these things happen. When you come back for round two, however, you lose your reproductive freedom, because it's pretty clear you can't behave yourself. Most abortions are performed on repeat customers. That should deeply disturb anyone who has even a modicum of empathy or has interacted with a child.

This whole part of / reliant on the mother argument is absolutely ridiculous. If left to their own survival, 999 out of 1000 kids under the age of 5 are going to be dead within a week. Of course children are reliant on their parents. Some much moreso than others.

Abortion is a necessary evil, as many people know what happens to unwanted and unloved children. But we shouldn't be enabling the degenerate behavior of all these women who are using abortions as birth control, and like it or not there are a LOT of them.

There's plenty of room to meet halfway on this, and it doesn't have to involve collectively deciding on the exact moment in the gestational process where the baby gains its right to live the life already set in motion upon conception.

Would you tell a formerly excited and now grieving mother who had an early miscarriage to stop crying because it was just a clump of cells? Of course not.

It's not mental gymnastics to understand that there is a difference between a person and something that will become a person. We're not talking about stopping a train getting to a station we're talking about stopping the construction before it becomes a train. A women's perception of her miscarriage is also completely irrelevant when it comes to the factual state of her pregnancy. You are a dickhead if you tell her not to care because it's just a clump of cells but it doesn't make you wrong (depending on the stage of the pregnancy).

The time for stopping construction has passed when you failed the pullout game, friend.

Based on what? If I am building a train, I don't call it a train if all I've done is gathered the materials. I also don't call it a train during the earlier portion of its construction because I know that to be a train has a certain meaning tied to its form and functionality. I assume you accept that in every situation other than pregnancy. It seems like mental gymnastics to apply a completely different standard to this one situation.

The metaphor has lost its way.

Your pile of steel and electronics has a 0% chance of becoming something other than a heap of material if left alone. Only 1 or 2 out of every 10 pregnancies result in miscarriage. The rest will become people who you'd hopefully feel really shitty about looking in the eye and telling them that you advocated for their destruction in the womb.

You can still advocate for it, but don't hide behind some bullshit argument that they weren't real until precisely X days after their initial cells began to divide.

Do you think quality of life should have no influence in any decision we take ?
Sometimes unwanted child stuck in an unloving family do not have great life at all either .
I guess they can be badly mistreated for years with dire consequences for them and their surroundings .

I don’t see how a mistake would be resolve by making a bigger mistake by allowing unfit parents to have kids ….

Just to save a 1 month celll ?
“When you're one month pregnant, the embryo is teeny-tiny but by the time you're 5 weeks pregnant your baby looks like a tiny curled tube that's about ¼ of an inch long.”
So u must disagree with the supreme court not banning the pill last week ?

Now there is a loaded statement.

Meh maybe a bit

That clump of cells isn't being left alone to be constructed by magic either. It's the woman's body, that she is sustaining through her effort, that does it.

Why would this matter anyway? If I leave a pumpkin seed in the ground and it grows into a pumpkin it doesn't change the fact that it's pumpkin seed and not a pumpkin when I put it in the ground. If I eat a handful of pumpkin seeds, I'm not eating pumpkins just because they have the potential, if sustained, to become them. So again, why in the case of pregnancy are you dispensing with the reason you'd apply to anything else?

There are any number of situations where you would be liable for the potential value and not strictly present value of some inventory or property you damaged, so I don't think that really helps your case here. I certainly know this to be the case when it comes to earnings in wrongful death suits, so again, not sure why you'd go with this line.

You'd also probably argue for prosecution of a mother of a 4 year old who left them outside to fend for themselves, resulting in the death of the child. So acting like she should just be able to avoid the consequences of her choices just because the child in question can't yet breathe on their own is a bit odd.

Of course, I've already stated earlier that I'm not a hardliner on the concept of abortion. The lesser of two evils and all that. But I am pretty firmly in the camp of not letting people make a habit of it.

I hate that people try to beat around the bush on abortion by changing the definition of humanity. In nearly all cases, the same arguments used to define fetus vs baby can also be used to describe people who were born healthy many years ago. We don't go killing off the infirmed or disabled just because they're inconvenient.