an educated society is a better society..

so society should invest in that.

+1

Coming from Finland (where my university cost like 50 euros a year in fees, but I got paid by government around 500€/month + basically free apartment + some other support) the American mentality of "people having to get by themselves" feels so sick. Why would anyone ever want to live in a society where people are uneducated, poor, sick, hopeless and miserable just to save a little bit on taxes? And how huge loss is it for a society if brilliant kids from poor families can't get the education and future they could have. Absolute madness.

you dont even save anything on taxes. and sure as **** dont save overall. the only people that pay less taxes are the super rich and the corporations.

"Society" investing in education in fine. Pass the hat, and spend to your hearts content.

Virtually nobody. Which is why so many people from all over the world want to live in the USA.

The US system has problems, but that isn't one of them. If you can get into a top school it will be free if your family is poor. And you get paid to go to grad school in most programs (professional schools like law and medicine not included).

And that’s why you build a wall ......
A lot of places all over the world are in terrible shape , doesn’t mean the US are the best .
Tons of people’s are coming to live in Canada too ....
And Canada vs US are light years different in those issues .

How can you say it’s not really a problem in US while your saying it excludes medicine programs ...

Where it is probably one of the top job in salary and where it cost the most for an education ?
That is the whole point .

It fit right into his narrative .

Uhh... yeah. Professional schools don't pay you to attend because (among other reasons) you shouldn't be poor after graduating. It's the perfect situation for a loan rather than tax payers subsidizing someone who's going to be making 500k in few years.

Yeah but the point is to give access to the most people you can ....
Is it plus ev to gain 200k, 300k debt before you start your professional life ?
On contrary, they can’t spend anything for the economy for years to come .
Just hike up the Income taxes for the top earner ....

Yes, it's massively plus EV to take on debt to go to medical school.

all right than...
i do not see how its massive EV to have to pay the equivalent of a house to become a doctor.
it is certainly not a incentive for poor people to become a doctor and it kinda instead favor those that are actually coming from a rich family.
Just look how the student debt loan in the US are massively a problem in their economy, shrug...
And it certainly do not make a better doctor someone who pays 300k compared to another that pay maybe 100k in another country where the education it less costly.

Guess we are hitting an ideology about economics .

You need stability, dependability and ease of access (not for the academic criteria, but the financial ones). Teenagers and their parents will struggle to plan a future on a financial "maybe".

Massive amounts of student debt will also effectively make people indentured servants. Seems like an ironic price to pay for freedom.

I mean, I'd have no issues living my life in a profession that required less education, presumably it is society and its various organizations that need a decent number of people with higher education. And that recruitment pool is probably better selected on a criteria of a talent, rather than socio-economic status of one's family.

Without any doubt whatsover the most +EV government spending is that directed at pure intellectual exploration.

The social benefits from physics alone are incredible, and more so in relation to what it costs to generate them.

If society as a whole benefits from some people getting free education then why wouldnt we just allow people to donate to those that cant pay for college? Great ideas dont need to be forced at gunpoint

Watching creepy old Friedman (who, like Trump grifted more than his share of taxpayer's money) posit a stupid premise (it disregards our progressive taxation system) on the internet (which was developed by taxpayers then monetized by private interests) is delicious.

It pretty much says everything you need to know about Friedman and his ilk.

It does not work, that would be the short answer. Dependability, stability and output are required for higher education. Contrary to popular belief, society benefits from specialists and it needs a lot of them. Funding by patrons used to be the norm, and it was (and still is) a great model for educating a lot of theologians and a priests.

Most of what calls itself (or is called by others) for private higher education today is anything but. The equivalent of some hypothetical poker player who isn't paid by the house, he just pays no rake, gets comped abundantly and always seems to be on the receiving end of big gifts from the casino.

This is wrong. Social mobility measures put the US behind nearly every country in Europe, even the mediterranean, and that goes back directly to the economic inaccessibility of higher education.

Getting paid to go to grad school is not peculiar to the US. It's also not standard outside of the hard sciences. Moreover, ~half the beneficiaries aren't from the US ... US grad programs would be unsustainable without non US trained talent.

Empirically what works best is forcing it. Probably the reason is that counting on donations is counting on the good will of rich people and that's just stoopid.

Read the post I was responding to. He was talking about people who are brilliant that can't afford school. That's not a problem since the best schools in the US are free if you can get in and your parents make 70k or less. That doesn't say anything about the vast majority of people who can't get in.

I never said paying people to go to grad school was peculiar to the US. And it's not just the hard sciences that are fully funded. At the schools I went to even English Lit or whatever students paid no tuition and got a stipend. Only difference between them and the hard sciences was they had to TA for their whole time there and you only had to for 2 years in the hard sciences. And of course US grad schools need foreign students, we have so many top notch research universities. But it again shows how money doesn't matter as many of these students are poor by US standards.

This!

Pass the hat!

And how do you discover brillant students ?
and does Really just to be in the top 20%( arbitrary number ) not brillant enough
To benefit a non overinflated educational cost ?
You really need to be in the top 5% to be profitable for society ....

I personally think you really downgrading the effect of a poor socio economic environment it can have on a lot of possible brillant students ....
That is the whole point of making higher education easily attainable for all .

That should be the whole premise of the American dream , equal opportunity to all isn’t ?
Forcing student to get 200k loan to study doesnt sound to me to be a equal opportunity cost for all ....

I mean seriously, I’ll never be scared to have surgery from a Canadian doctor instead of an American doctor , that cost like half the cost of education .
And that is probably applicable in any field ( law school, etc.)

I mean the only real people that benefits that crazy American education concept are the bankers and the private school , certainly not the students and society .
I got trouble thinking having to many educated people in society is a problem .
When I look at the US in present time , I think having too few educated citizen is a much worst problem with so many trumpster , anti science , ethic ,economic knowledge , etc ...

There are plenty of problems with the US education system, like I already said. I was just pointing out that the specific one he mentioned isn't really one of them. Universities sort of being torn between being small, elite research centers and places where a regular person can go get an education makes them inefficient and is a bigger problem. But that's really a problem not specific to the US.

For the same reason we pay taxes to get roads, firefighters, and parks.