i waited that respond .....

how much money Canada gave to Hydro Quebec for its development ? 0$
Hell Quebec had to go to private banks in New York to get the freakn money to build it in the 1960s and now you come here and say yeah, no canadians give a freakn cent but now they want the full benefit of it ?


meanwhile..

Compare it to investment for oil for example, since the beginning and it still continues.......

last year only ...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/fos...nada-1.5987392

"Canada spent $18B on financial supports for the fossil fuel industry last year: report"

couple years ago :trans mountain pipeline , 4.5 billions.

And still today :
https://www.iisd.org/articles/unpack...-subsidies-faq

"ItÂ’s difficult to know, because federal and provincial governments havenÂ’t transparently reported how much they really provide in fossil fuel subsidies. From what we do know, itÂ’s at least CAD 4.8 billion per year. That includes measures like special tax deductions and direct cash transfers that governments provide to fossil fuel companies."

https://www.energypolicytracker.org/country/canada/

"Since the beginning of the COVID19 pandemic in early 2020, Canada has committed at least USD 82.76 billion to supporting different energy types through new or amended policies, according to official government sources and other publicly available information. "

"By energy type, Canada committed at least USD 28.93 billion to oil and gas (at least USD 17.73 billion to unconditional oil and gas and at least USD 11.19 billion to conditional oil and gas)."


When enough is enough ?!?!?!?!
And you complain on how trudeau treats alberta ?

seriously, stop complaining on the money others receive when alberta is no better while they have the best income in canada ffs...
they could had a huge sovereign funds like Norway but hey, lets have a tax cut to buy more expensive cars.....instead having a self reliant soveriegn funds to pay a lot of the budget....

I am sure Quebec would gladly share any profits they get from hydro, just pay the 50 billions (+ couples more billions paid already since the 1960...) left in debts first, to compensate all the money tax payer from Quebec paid to develop it...

i mean canada with harper waste like 5billions for muskrat fall in NFD but hey,that was directly in competition with hydro, with our own money from Quebec with our tax paid !!!
And now ottawa need to injected almost another 10 billions on top of that ...
And since Quebec pays more tax than alberta as a whole ( not per capita since you seem to no care about that ) to Canada, Quebec will give more money than Alberta to have a competitor to hydro Quebec , from a bad decision from harper , your own political side , and we are the bad guy ???

https://www.thestar.com/business/opi...-of-folly.html


your seriously out of touch economically...

you probably did not read my 3 post where i took that specific link to explain to you...

Had 4 millions citizens to your health care and education system ( like Quebec have) in Alberta and you will understand that the amount Quebec received is almost meaningless,
compare of the whole cost having to provide for 4 millions citizen with a full
health care and education social programs that Alberta do not have to deal with ......

Yeah those 4 millions citizen Quebec have more than Alberta have are canadians too and its not Alberta that pays for them....well that is why Alberta pay some money from the equalization program which amount to 3 billions per year for all of those that receive equalization, not just Quebec.

Wait !!!!

When Alberta reap the rewards when oil was high , you know how much the manufacturing sector of Ontario and Quebec ( their base economies) got crush with a strong dollard, killing tremendous amount of jobs ?
Did Alberta cared ?

that is the whole point of why Canada is a great country...
When 1 province get hurts all the others can help, its called a diversify economy...

Yeah Quebec gets money from the equalization program because Quebec have almost double the population to care for, compare to Alberta...
But Quebec provide more revenue than Alberta and have a higher GDP than Alberta.

Not per capita as you showed but stick to capita when you talk about equalization then, and you will see the benefits of per capita for Quebec is less than any other provinces that receive equalization payment....in some cases far less

No but the point is you never see AB reveling in ON or Quebec doing worse due a strong dollar. My point is that Quebec often went out of the way to be the loudest voice saying '**** Alberta' while enjoying the ride in the car that Albertans were putting the gas in.

I am not following you here. Yes Quebec's GDP and gross revenue is greater but so what.

Ok they are bigger thus more gross revenue and more GDP but it is not enough to pay for the Provinces expenditures or needs and thus they need a top up.

Luckily for them a Province like AB exists that puts out more than it takes in and thus QB can benefit.


Put another way. A confederation of 10 Provinces exactly like Quebec would go bust and break up.

A confederation of 10 Provinces like AB would be very rich and thrive.

As well in 10 Alberta's you could

be a Sikh and become a judge
be a Muslim and work as a teacher

In 10 Quebec's you could not

I don't think you understand how the equalization system works. As I explained earlier, provincial deficits don't affect it. It doesn't matter what the provincial expenditures are. It doesn't matter if AB is in deficit or not. All of this is completely irrelevant to the equalization formula. This about how stupid it would be if that WAS the way it worked; every province is incentivized to be a massive deficit because then it will b equalized. Thankfully, that is just fiction.

I said this a while back in this thread during some other whataboutquebecism, but I don't really feel I have much to say culturally about Quebec. Other than the dozen or so times I went to Montreal (which is beautiful) to see my brother when I was living in Toronto, I've not really spent a lot of time with quebecers talking about their politics. Like a lot of anglophones, seen the bloc in the debates is often as far into the politican scene in quebec as I'm exposed to. Do quebecers actually live up to all these caricatures from the Albertans itt? I'm not sure they do. I suspect most people that oppose Albertan oil do it, like me, because they believe in global warming and want to do something to stop that.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure every province has its types who like to focus on shitting on some other province. From time to time I even enjoy this, although mostly that is to have fun with lozen. And a decade of Harper's relentlessly pro-oil agenda stuffed down all of our throats would certainly contribute to "**** alberta" mentalities. But if I am guessing, I suspect quebecers think about alberta WAY less than albertan's (of 85% just being flat out from on equalization payments fame) do about quebec. Regardless of whether that is true, I'd say focus on keeping your own house in order and if a decent chunk of your political rhetoric is centered around trying to **** on Quebec from all the way over in BC or AB, I'm not really impressed.

uke I am not arguing that.

Regardless of how it works (and i said we could get mired in that debate which I do not intend to), when you are struggling as a Province and STILL paying out more than you take in (as AB was post 2014), and at the same time you know the other Province is enjoying record wealth and surpluses (as Quebec was post 2014) it is going to anger you when the ones still benefiting from your money are the ones mocking you and trying to block you making it.

Them saying 'well don't worry the formula is not designed that way' does not make you feel better.

I don't care about your tone policing, I just want you to stop saying false things about the basics of how the system works.

And since I never said anything false we should be good then.

Would you agree with the CBC on how equalization works ?

https://globalnews.ca/news/8283019/c...ion-september/

Is this being addressed at all by anyone in the government?I feel like this should be talked about a lot more than it is. On that note Bitcoin just hit an all time high

how exactly do you want it to be addressed? The big question regarding "addressing it" is largely whether these price shocks are transitory given specific things like the current semiconductor and shipping crunches, or long term and structural.

Lol at the CBC. Starts off interviewing the trumpkin and then blasts how most albertans couldn't pass a basic knowledge test about equalization payments, gee I wonder what type of person would fail that? We saw the stat earlier that 85% of albertans don't realize quebec isn't the biggest per capita recipient. I wonder how many also think it has something to do with provincial deficits??

If you are suggesting that Albertans would be worse per capita than other Provinces on how many citizens could pass a basic knowledge test about equalization payments then I think that would mean your AB disdain is showing.

I think that number is abysmally low across Canada but AB (for the sole reason it is in the news more there) would be on the better side of average.

again, I would bet that AB is no better of worse than the rest of the Country on that and even Quebecers might only be marginally better if it is on their news more.

Well Albertans are unique in that they have a lot of angst about the equalization system to the point their right wing political leaders are drumming up an empty vote on the subject. You might think that with a vote coming up maybe 85% of them would have learned the basic facts, that they ought to know the basics more than the rest of the country, but sadly not. And basic confusions are rampant. I know a guy having a whole conversation with an imagined quebec caricature premised all about provincial deficits who didn't notice those have nothing to do with equalization payments!

Albertans just voted in two minority mayors in Edmonton and Calgary and one a women.
Everyone has a thought on what Albertans are.
You mention the Trumpster in the video but fail to mention the rural lady that supports Equalization

Its about Have Provinces supporting have nots

Lol, your number 1 campaign issue was government policy on how to solve climate change, politicians never give up the chance to tell people how they'll protect them from the environment. You can't turn on the news without seeing steam vapour being shot into the air telling Canadians what they need to do to stop catastrophic climate change. But hey skyrocketing cost of living due "transitory supply chain issues" is unsolvable and has nothing to do with government policy, so people just need to deal with it.

When they were polling Quebecers on the street about the Separation Vote most thought they could 'Separate' but not take any share of the National Debt and yet still remain in Canada, in all but name only.

The amount of ignorance people on the street were repeating from what their Politicians were pushing was astounding.

Again if you are trying to suggest Albertan's are uniquely or especially naïve that is very wrong. I would suggest it is Canada wide and they are no worse than any other.

ah yes a whatbouatquebecism, brilliantly timed. My point wasn't that albertans are more ignorant than others (although that might still be true, certainly the anti-equalization animosty sounds like a breeding group for misinformation), but more that they are voting about a proposal when the population by an incredibly large 85% majority just don't know basic facts. I'm sure many other provinces are full of people so utterly confused about equalization they think provincial deficits are relevant, but they aren't voting against it.

Other provinces other than Saskatchewan are not dealing with two provinces blocking access for their resources to a global market

I repeat I think Kenney's ploy with this vote is just stupid. HE would be better off suspending all fuel transports of gasoline and aviation fuel to BC for 6 months

Perfectly appropriate no matter how much you hate the flashlight you are trying to point being pointed another way.



And yet your posts reek of this insult that AB are uniquely ignorant and you don't care it is not true. You just say 'don't point out others across Canada are also ignorant and this is by no means a AB thing, as that is whataboutism'.

Rich.


Again, what point though are you making?

This is a TRUISM of almost all issues Canadians vote on and by your standard non then should vote.

You and I might agree that ALL people are typically and generally very ignorant of the issues they vote on and that is fine but you keep acting as if it is an issue for AB specifically.

you want Kenney to be the sort of more extreme version of Putin? What an absolutely terrible idea. And not even directed at the right place, you know it is the feds that approved (and bought!) the trans mountain pipeline and the feds that canceled northern gateway and banned tanker traffic in northern bc waters. So trying to pull a ****ing gazprom move like bc is Ukraine is one of the most misplaced and stupid ideas I’ve ever heard.

Was the CBC video wrong to point out the high rate of ignorance among albertans about the issue they are voting on? Should they have done a whataboutquebecism to make that deep contextual point? Was lozen wrong to post the video somewhat miraculously making it through a full post without a whataboutquebecism? Or am only I wrong to reply to the CBC video that lozen posted noting it talked about the high rate of ignorance among albertans about the issue they are voting on?

Sure lots of people are ignorant about lots of things. I know someone from BC who got so confused about equalization they thought talking about provincial deficits was a good talking point! Profound ignorance about these basics is everywhere. But when a specific issue comes up in a specific place with a specific event like a vote happening in a specific cultural moment it is not wrong to observe just how acutely ignorant that population is about the basic facts.

uke you legit seem to struggle with the concept that starting out with insults such as calling people ignorant or dumb is not conducive to getting anything productive done after that. You scoff at it as 'tone policing' and ridicule any pointing out that this is not a unique issue as just meaningless 'whataboutism'.

I can't change you and am not trying to but if you do not recognize why that is not productive, I don't know what else to say. I expect some hand waving dismissal of this, fwiw.

Without a doubt it is a problem across Canada and the World that citizens are not well informed and read in on almost ALL issues that impact their lives and they may be voting on. Most of the people who voted for Brexit would likely not pass a test, that would show they were truly knowledgeable in what it means.

So what it means is that point of the ignorance you are pointing at really goes without saying. It is common to ALL and thus on both sizes of the equal sing (X=X) and thus really has no insight to the conversation.

So why say it when there is almost no instance when that is not the truth of the situation? Why point out on this issue that the typical Albertan might not be as well read in as they should be? It is a way to insult and dismiss them. To mock them as if dumb.

Whether you care or not, think it is tone policing or not, think it is justified or not, I can tell that one of the main issues I saw in AB is that they feel they are not only not respected but mocked by much of the rest of Canada, especially QB and BC.

I am not getting into merits, if it is deserved, correct or incorrect and just pointing out it is not good for conducive discourse if that is, in actuality, your intent. If its not your intent and just mocking or trolling them is then by all means carry on.

And this is not about you specifically as I would say more people do it than don't unfortunately.