Politics and Society Moderation Discussion Only Fans Thread - Page 207 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

What is so hard to understand? You can post a definition. You can cite a definition. You are strongly discouraged from spamming a thread with the same definition over and over and over in a short period. If you did that enough, I guess you could get banned for it.

11-02-2023 , 04:26 PM

#5152

jbouton

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 3,281

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

thats clear and very reasonable.

11-02-2023 , 04:28 PM

#5153

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,419

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbouton

thats clear and very reasonable.

11-02-2023 , 05:05 PM

#5154

Didace

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 20,004

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbouton

Just so you know, there are a lot of people here now that like me. And there are even more that think I'm far smarter than you.

Has there been a poll that I missed?

11-02-2023 , 05:34 PM

#5155

Bluegrassplayer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 39,100

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbouton

I'm only here because of BGP, they are my favorite mod, protected me. And maven.

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

The phrase "no good deed goes unpunished" has never been so apropos.

I don't know who maven is, but if the above is true, BGP and I are definitely going to be having words behind the bike sheds after class.

And yet I'm being accused of abusing my mod powers in a thread where I have no mod powers!

Can someone please explain the circular logic in this post?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer

None of it. I guess we're turning the strawman into the main focus now. Regarding bubble's post: Russia's invasion of Ukraine was unprovoked. Without taking any sides on Israel's actions, Israel was definitely provoked while Russia had no event similar to provoke them into invading Ukraine. I agree with all sentiments in his post, and this is largely an aside.

There was no immediate chance that Ukraine would join NATO when Russia initially invaded or launched the full scale invasion. Aside from not legally being able to join NATO until the 2040s, Ukraine was overwhelmingly against joining NATO until the initial invasion, and even then a majority of the population did not want to join until Russia began threatening the full scale invasion. Throughout this entire time there was not much support for Ukraine to join NATO from within NATO. Russia could not have seen an immediate threat that Ukraine would join NATO when they launched the invasion or the full scale invasion.

Ukraine made the decision to fight instead of capitulate, and since then the majority of Ukrainians have wanted to continue fighting. They made this choice with no NATO arms being provided to them. The military aid sent to Ukraine at the start of the invasion was minimal and focused on arms for fighting a counterinsurgency and not a sustained conventional war. These arms were all sent bilaterally, mostly from USA; none were sent as a concentrated NATO effort. There was no effort to get Ukraine to join NATO, or for NATO to arm Ukraine to fight against Russia prior to, or at the beginning of, the full scale invasion.

Meanwhile since the invasion began Finland has joined NATO. Russia has moved troops away from its border with Finland, and overall hasn't said much about it. Russia's actions here do not align with Russia being afraid of NATO expansion.

It does not make sense to invade a country to prevent it from joining NATO when they were not going to join NATO anyways. Despite numerous attempts to get people to explain what exactly the "NATO threat" even is, they always refuse to do so. There is a good reason why: because there's no threat. Russia is a nuclear power, they are not going to be invaded anytime soon. They do not need a "NATO land buffer"... If someone says that Russia needs to preemptively invade a country because they were threatented what they actually mean is that Russia needs to preemptively invade because their ability to continue invading is threatened. Of the six countries bordering Russia that aren't in NATO or have nukes, Russia has sent troops into four of them. Russia is not trying to protect itself, it is trying to protect its ability to invade and coerce.

Since it's objective that this didn't start off as a proxy war and (despite numerous requests to do so) no has ever said when it became one, I'm not going to go into depth arguing why something isn't something. However, it's established that Ukraine wanted to fight for its existence and continues to want to fight. At no point has Ukraine's desire to continue fighting dipped below a majority. Yes, NATO allies benefit from (bilaterally) giving aid to Ukraine. That does NOT mean that Ukraine is fighting on behalf of, or at the instigation of, NATO or NATO allies. It also does not mean that NATO is sending aid as a concentrated NATO effort. This is also not a "long-term relationship", and the aid is currently under threat. The way most people try to fit this war into being a "proxy war" is by using definitions for these points so loose that any war involving allies would become a proxy war.

It seems like the only argument put forth in that thread which references the definition. Now browser has put forth another argument which references the definition ITT. Meanwhile no argument has been put forth referencing the definition in order to prove that this war is a proxy war.

11-02-2023 , 05:51 PM

#5156

jbouton

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 3,281

When I say reference I mean match it to the words of the wiki definition. Like put them in your post. I'm headed out quick I'll scrutinize ur post here when I'm back ie give it proper attention.

I didn't say you were abusing your mod powers. I said if you have the favor of the mods, you can make some else's argument a red/blue debate until the mods that favor you enforce against your opponent for the circularity.

11-02-2023 , 05:54 PM

#5157

Bluegrassplayer

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Oh well that's reasonable...

And that does not seem to line up with previous posts at all.

11-02-2023 , 05:56 PM

#5158

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,419

11-02-2023 , 06:14 PM

#5159

jbouton

veteran

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 3,281

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

...

Thats an odd explanation of recursion to me

Spoiler:

Seems like refactoring:

Spoiler:

11-02-2023 , 06:17 PM

#5160

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,419

It's a joke by Google. Humour. Never mind.

11-02-2023 , 07:47 PM

#5161

DonkJr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 5,368

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbouton

Just so you know, there are a lot of people here now that like me. And there are even more that think I'm far smarter than you. You are making **** up about me, and it will turn back on you.

I would love to know which people around here think you are smart.

11-02-2023 , 07:48 PM

#5162

Victor

banned

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 73,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rococo

All of this is obviously correct imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubble_Balls

We were so close to being done with this. You’re not wrong but it’s been said to him about ten times in different ways already and he simply refuses to believe anyone should be able to disagree with him.

except the war didnt start with the Russian invasion in 2022. it started when the US helped to remove the president.

11-02-2023 , 07:49 PM

#5163

wreckem713

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 1,406

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonkJr

I would love to know which people around here think you are smart.

Generally speaking, I think people that say they are smart, are dumb.

11-02-2023 , 07:49 PM

#5164

uke_master

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Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 16,081

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonkJr

I would love to know which people around here think you are smart.

We need a poll!!

11-02-2023 , 07:52 PM

#5165

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,419

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonkJr

I would love to know which people around here think you are smart.

Pretty sure I know the posters in question. I fondly think of them as Larry, Curly, and Moe.

11-02-2023 , 08:04 PM

#5166

d2_e4

certifiable moron

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12,419

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke_master

We need a poll!!

Here is my bold prediction of results:

11-02-2023 , 08:07 PM

#5167

caseIIclosed

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 1,183

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

except the war didnt start with the Russian invasion in 2022. it started when the US helped to remove the president.

The one in 2014 after Russia invaded Crimea?

11-02-2023 , 08:13 PM

#5168

jjjou812

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,800

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2_e4

Pretty sure I know the posters in question. I fondly think of them as Larry, Curly, and Moe.

3? I put the line at 1.5, but that depends on which Curly.

11-02-2023 , 08:20 PM

#5169

Victor

banned

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 73,070

Quote:

Originally Posted by caseIIclosed

The one in 2014 after Russia invaded Crimea?

wouldnt call that an invasion. and it started before that anyway.

11-02-2023 , 08:45 PM

#5170

caseIIclosed

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 1,183

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

wouldnt call that an invasion. and it started before that anyway.

Crimea was not invaded. Excellent. Brilliant analysis.

11-02-2023 , 09:10 PM

#5171

Deuces McKracken

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Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 9,335

What happened to the previous Israel/Palestine thread? It seems I don't have permission to access it. I was a pretty frequent participant in that thread from page 1. I think I was banned from it. However, as time has gone by, all the positions I took in that thread are now considered correct by progressives. None of what I was banned for could stand up as offensive today plus the infraction has expired. This was about 10 years ago.

I'd like to browse that thread and see how certain takes have aged. So can I get back in?

11-02-2023 , 09:41 PM

#5172

DonkJr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 5,368

I don't think any politics thread from ten years ago is available to any of us. You see, somebody said something mean about Sara Huckabee, and that justified nuking the former politics forum in its entirety.