How ridiculous would it be if I decided that my gender was one of the random 72 genders and that I needed to be referred to one of the random sets of pronouns under threat of banning?

It's hardly edge lording to be opposed to that.

A while back, you asked me for receipts of instances in which you argue that "X is a social construct" in a situation where dubious behavior is being discussed.

This is a perfect example.

Seems weird to call it perfect example when that discussion was about race and now we're talking about amending the forum rules based on the dubious concept of gender.

Well, you created a ridiculous strawman to attack, but i'll skip that part and discuss the broader issue of what happens when someones personal beliefs are in conflict with the either the generally acknowledged structures that society uses in terms of things like race, gender, sex, social class or other boxes people get put into, usually by a majority group, but not always, and subsequently have basic human rights reduced or denied to them. And then how that bumps up against forum rules.

I don't recall if you were the poster some time ago that was stating that there is no such thing as race. While at the level of a geneticist that may well be considered true, obviously race is considered a very real thing in our society and the unequal treatment of people of certain races by others has been a major factor running through our history in the US.

As science has developed its knowledge and awareness of the existence of a spectrum of variations of behaviors and physical conditions related to sexual orientation, terms have developed to capture those variations that allow a common point of discussion. For example, while the term gender may not have been coined until the 1950s or so, the existence of what we now call transgender people has existed for centuries.

You certainly have the right to believe whatever you like irt topics like gender or race. But what is not acceptable in this forum (though Im sure it is welcome in others) is to make comments telling members of the forum that transgender people don't exist. They do, and they as a group suffer tremendous indignities and discrimination simply because they are who they are. So your choice is to decide to keep your comments in that regard to yourself on that particular subject, and participate in all the other topics, or decide that you do not wish to abide by the forum policy on this.

I've said many times that every forum has its own character and left and right limits about allowed discussions. So not every forum is a good fit for everyone. There are people with strongly held beliefs about various minority groups that simply are not welcome to post those beliefs here.

I certainly don't want to ban anyone. But there are certain views that are considered offensive to a large number of people on a personal level, and those won't be allowed.

Sexual orientation is not considered to be related to "gender"-- it's considered to be a completely separate and unrelated domain and conflating the two is considered problematic by the gender ideologues.

I'll start there and respond to some other parts of your post a bit later.

Thank you.

(My apologies for being unnecessarily harsh earlier - I presumed when you ignored the post report and then responded ITT to the cheating part alone not pronouns that you had decided not to act. However, it sounds like you were just away. My apologies. )


For clarity, I neither ask nor would expect you to. These types of errors are, in my view, combinations of ignorance, lack of attention, and a type of sort of willful ignorance in the sense of not willing to lift a finger to learn how to talk about trans people. That's lamentable, but not something I'd ask a moderator to enforce.

You're correct on that. I left off part of what I was thinking in my head as I was typing this out. The point I was trying to make, but didnt, was that the whole field that deals with the spectrum of things including sexual orientation, biological sex, gender, gender identity, etc has expanded a great deal.

Your point is well taken.

I agree your forcing me to call someone a they or them
But 2+2 is a private corporation freedom of speech doesn't apply

It’s more about the relevance. You have a habit of popping in to topics that you don’t seem otherwise interested in just to make a contrarian point about something that most people understand to just be a common convention.

Sure, gender is a construct but everyone still understands what people mean when you say misgender. It’s like the other recent conversation about what woke means where some poster said something about how the right uses it against the left and you popped in to mention that much of those people are not really on the left. You’re right in a sense, but it’s besides the point, and everybody already understands that it was meant more broadly in that context. It wouldn’t be so noticeable if you engaged in these topics in other ways but at least the bulk of it is these edgy posts.

Bad take. Do I really need to explain this one?

The whole "race/gender doesn't even exist!" bit I guess is supposed to be clever or something. It's obviously just yet another way to derail the conversation.

If you want a ban, you can just ask for one, you don't have to trot out these tiresome right-wing tropes from yesteryear.

I quoted it in this very thread. The whole "I'm busy" play would work much better if you didn't read and respond to every post critical of your modding.

And we've all heard your excuses. It's fine and nobody is shocked. This was all completely predictable.

Are you referring to the quote inyour post itt #2450? The one with no link to the quote or mention of what thread it's in? IOW with no way to locate it? Or was it another one?

Lol at the Im busy being a play. I made about 30 posts total between 1 May and 7 June or less than 1 a day on average. Prior to my move requirements I prob averaged 30 posts a day. . As much as I enjoy engaging with you and everyone else, Im afraid real life temporarily got in the way of the fun.

Showing basic human respect to refer to people how they wish to be referred to doesn't block you from repeating your banal "gender isn't real" bits. You can do both, go on your little rants about false ideologies, but still refer to a specific trans person as they identity.

Ecriture, you don't do your self any favours by making it rather opaque wtf you are referring to. I'm as critical of browser as anyone on this forum, but I hope everyone is at least aware of what exactly my criticism is and why I say it, even if they disagree. But with your criticisms half the time I have no clue what you are even referring to. Probably I'm not paying super attention and it's some thread I'm not involved with, but just a FYI that as a 3rd party here it's not at all obvious that your criticisms have any merit.

Ummm...at first I thought, gee, thanks Uke! Then I thought, wait a minute...did he just exhort ec to raise his game and criticize me better?

I've actually never been really clear what uke's complaints have been. Always seemed somewhat theoretical.

Yes. Are you not aware the forum has a built in search function making the post in question trivial to locate? This is another excuse from you....but it is again highly contrived and not believable. If your issue was locating it, why didn't you imply ask rather than whining?

Now that's funny. You really expect a mod to use the site search function to search for a quote because you dont want to participate in using the report function? Good luck with that. I wonder why the site went to all the trouble of building a system where a poster can push a button and the mods get an email notice and a link to the post in question when it is so much easier for the user to put a quote in the mod thread and have the mod use the search function to find it.

He’d like it if people stopped misgendering people. He’s been quite clear on this.

Again....you could have simply asked for a link if that was the issue. There's no need to lie.

Your last post is so absurd that clearly you have crossed the line from valid criticism to trolling. You should stop now.

What you mean is, you're simply going to enforce your own views as the only acceptable views, in totalitarian fashion. And the rationalisation given above is meaningless, doctrinnaire, made-up-five-minutes-ago wibble. The weasel use of the term 'generally acknowledged', in the face of consistent polling evidence to the contrary, is particularly hilarious (and not in a good way).

You completely lost me on how you got to what you said from what I posted. Are you suggesting that it is not generally acknowledged that people have been, and still are categorized by things like race, sex, gender, and class? You have consistent polling indicating most people dont acknoledge these categories exist? Please post the links to those. As for the made up 5 minute ago thing, the forum rules mentioning derogatory comments directed towards minority groups have been up for at least 5 months, not 5 minutes.

So Im afraid Im just not following your points. Could you maybe rephrase them and include an example of what it is you're talking about?

Thanks.

Ya, 57 on red, do tell us what you really believe about all this! I actually predicted you would eat the first ban on trans issues, but you went quiet quickly with Cuepee, lagtight, and now lozen beating you to the punch of getting mod rulings against them. But those of us who were here before browser remember.