You're right vegas, your hundreds of posts on all things poc and defending police shooing after police shooting has nothing to do with your stance here and should never be mentioned ever again

How the **** does a 13 year old get a gun?

I was just thinking the same thing. The discussion of his shooting should probably be about gun control more than anything. ****.

It isn't yesterday's world. Tons of teens and younger are ganged-up hardened criminals. In Chi-town most of all. Parts are like Beirut without the tanks. Kids are growing up in it, huge dropout rates ... warriors of the street.

He was with a 21 year old that night. The 21 year old is facing a slew of felony charges

This child's family completely failed him. To say his death was only the police's fault is wrong. However to say he had no choice but to be killed at that moment is also wrong afaic

You can't look at that video and say he would die 100 outta 100 times. If on the 99th he could survive then the other 99 times are a spectacular failure

Eventually, pointing out all the ways people are being failed (or that people have failed) in a system that guarantees that such failures will be far too common has to be converted into doing something about it.

There's several systemic failures but gun control has to be #1

I try to stop short of calling you a racist. I believe you're just a tool used by racists and unwittingly repeat their talking points.

But to your complaint, the vast majority of white people are already trained to comply. We're starting to learn that may not always work but to compare the average white police interaction to the average black one is just illustrating my point of how the smart racists use guys like you to get their message out.

I can't match up the body cam and the security cam videos to form an opinion.

It looks like the runs up and ditches the gun (throws it with his right hand) and then faces the cop on the security video. If that's the case then it's not a gun in his hand on the body cam freeze frame.

And if it is a gun on that freeze frame, how did it end up so far away on the other side of the fence ?

It may be justified. People do get shot throwing weapons away. But Chicago had that cop execute that kid in the street a few years ago. No one is giving the cop the benefit of the doubt and it's the fault of other cops.

Would you also be confused if you saw a 13 year old with a pack of cigarettes?

IHIV would you agree this is an example of 'comply and die'?

- Suspect known to have a gun is running away from police
- Police officer orders suspect to "STOP" and "SHOW ME YOUR HANDS"
- Suspect follows those orders and gets shot

It was the suspects complying that got him shot. Had he ignored it and kept running instead perhaps he gets shot in the back but complying and following instructions 100% he absolutely gets killed.

The cop should have said, STOP, TURN AROUND, SO I CAN KILL YOU as that is exactly what following those instructions, you are saying then justifies the killing. This kid did not even fail at Simon Says.

'Comply and die'.



(and before you waste time saying what the kid should not have done prior to getting shot, let me just concede that point and say that is not a reason to shoot someone who is then surrendering as ordered, following the instructions and executed for doing so. )

You pathetic attempts does not include salient details of the incident, and you are lying about the details you've presented. The kid did not stop moving, he turned toward the officer.




This is eight tenths of second before he turned toward the officer and was shot. Almost any reasonable person that's not a lefty trying to feed a narrative knows that officer has to make a split second decision on whether the kid is about to shoot him.

It seems like it. Stop. Hands up. Drop it. Bang.
But legally, it's probably justified. Turning to face a cop with your hands behind your back is bad. If he was armed at that point he needed to just drop the gun behind his back. Damn. Hard to watch. But making the motion to pitch it and then turning to face the cop is really dangerous.

I don't know if the commands made it worse or not. Terrible situation. Dumb kid. I feel for his family. I was a dumb 13 year old once.

Shows a picture of a kid pitching a gun and blames lefties.

The officer did 'have' to make a split second decision. And he made the wrong one. Which is why everyone is looking at the video and trying to figure out what went wrong.

We know you think it's okay and first grade compliance training will fix it.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...box=1618554209

I haven't stopped beating my wife either

No, no, no.

You are completely ducking my question and trying to mischaracterize.

For sake of argument let me concede everything up to the point this suspect is running gun in hand and an officer is chasing him.


With the officer yelling 'stop' and 'turn and show your hands', explain very clearly what this person should have known to do differently to survive this encounter'.

Just tell me what action the kid could have done differently? Was there any path to surrender and live? Or was complying an automatic death sentence?

Well first joining a gang , second not be involved in a call were someone is shooting and he is carrying a concealed weapon, third not run . Reality is his best move was to stop and raise his hands high and either not turn around or turn around slowly.

Just watching the news comparing some of these areas to a war zone is not a stretch. The gangs lure these kids in many whom have no other options.

Ya I am not saying the cop is guilty of murder or anything like that.

I am saying this fits the narrative of another deadly game of Simon Says, where the suspect actually thought he was surrendering and complying and got executed anyway.

Kid totally put the cop in a terrible situation and the cops instructions did not help.

The cop instead should have demanded he 'stop' and 'don't move', and could tell him a 'single sudden movement will get him killed'. And then once the cop has control of the situation, person is complying, back turned, gun in hand or not, the cop then can tell the person to drop the gun and issue more commands.

That is really the only way for this to go down that should make the cop more comfortable and ALSO to allow the suspect to survive. You want the suspect to 'freeze' while you, the cop have all the advantages of a drawn gun, facing his back, where if you makes any sudden movement you will win that exchange.

And while i am sympathetic to the 'heat of the moment' arguments, I think this needs to be mandatory tactics training for the police otherwise if you re-run this exact circumstance 100 times I suspect the person who is ACTUALLY TRYING TO SURRENDOR gets killed the majority of times.

That should not be an acceptable answer to the game of Simon Says when suspects are trying to comply and live.

It's a type I/II problem that has to be resolved in less than a second. In this particular instance, there is nothing that you can teach the police that changes the outcome. If a cop waits until he sees the gun facing him, it's too late, the shot will already have been fired. The cop basically has to play russian roulette with his life, if he doesn't take that shot.

The kid is in no better situation, and I would argue he was not aware of the danger he was in, due to his age. You can certainly understand why he turned toward the officer...

We have the benefit knowing he was a 13 year old kid, the cop didn't.

This is just a very dishonest answer so f*ck you for wasting my time and making me reply to such bad faith argumentation. Seriously.

As I said CLEARY assume everything you say (and IHIV said) about all that is accepted, and NOW someone is running, is there no choice but shot in the back or shot in the chest as you try to SURRENDER?

If your only reply is going to be 'look he did these terrible things prior to that, so there is no way he can survive', then just say that.

"Stop, let me see your ****ing hands, drop it, drop it"

ten words spoken immediately before the kid turned toward him.

He did not ****ing comply. Him turning is what is led to him being killed. I don't blame the kid either. That kid did not have the wherewithal to understand what position he put himself, or the cop in.

The only thing really that could have been done in this particular situation is not to be in it.

Just think of the cognitive processes that had to occur on the cop side from the moment he stopped running. He tells him to "stop, and show him his "f-ing" hands" probably while he is saying that, he he sees the gun, and immediately tells him to "drop it, drop it", not even heart beat later the kid turns.

It seems to me, the cop was not aware the kid was armed, in the first few moments, and the calculation changed once he saw the gun, but it was too late.

I suspect that is correct. But I wish the videos were clearer.

Right.
The commands were probably consistent with what the cop was seeing at the moment but it ended up being a comply and die situation.