The (ostensibly) Low Content Thread - Page 17 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

So they were making $10/hr at 40 hours per werk and now he is paying them $15 to only work 26?
Yeah sure that would better. You speculated that he would be hiring additional workers to make up the extra 14 hours though.

Ok, so you didn't read the article and are posting entirely based on unfounded assumptions you made, good to know.

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07-22-2019 , 11:28 AM

#402

Luckbox Inc

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What is the bottom line to the Sanders campaign? Are the changes neutral? Are they spending more or will they be saving money?

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07-22-2019 , 11:36 AM

#403

tomdemaine

Just tries harder

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 20,065

Are we workshopping? I don't really do improv. If you want to work backwards from your premise that sanders is bad and teh socialisms are dumb you're gonna have put in some effort yourself. Though if skim reading a 10 paragraph article is beyond you then I'm not holding out too much hope.

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07-22-2019 , 11:42 AM

#404

Luckbox Inc

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tomdemaine

We aren't workshopping and I haven't said anything about Sanders or socialism.
I agree that salaries for workers making that sort of money oftentimes has the effect of taking advantage of those employees. So it is good that Sanders is making changes. I think the newsweek tweet could have been better worded and I still haven't read the article. It was my mistake to assume they were hourly and I take full responsibility for that.

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07-22-2019 , 11:51 AM

#405

itshotinvegas

banned

Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 7,899

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomdemaine

If they're hourly then reducing their hours will have no effect on their hourly rate. If the campaign are reducing their hours to increase the hourly rate they must be salaried. You're a logic guy aren't you? Even if you weren't you could try perhaps reading the article?

Do try to keep up.

So, they have to take a second job, and work more hours....to be able to survive.

The $15 wage did not accomplish anything. More free time, but they apparently cant afford to work for the same amount of money..no matter how much free time you give them. The point is, they want more money...reducing hours does not accomplish that, when the pay at the end is the same thing.

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07-22-2019 , 12:12 PM

#406

Original Position

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Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

I don't mind having a laugh at the Sanders' campaign here, but what actually happened is that field organizers were being being $36K annually, but working 60 hours p/week. Now they are still being paid $36K annually, but limited to working 40 p/week.

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07-22-2019 , 12:14 PM

#407

tomdemaine

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It accomplished people working fewer hours for the same money which is the only thing it is intended to accomplish. I agree that $15 minimum wage does go nearly far enough in addressing deep structural poverty. We need far more left wing solutions.

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07-22-2019 , 12:45 PM

#408

itshotinvegas

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Original Position

Yeah, I know. However, in the article it talked about the financial strain of working there, not the long hours. The union was trying to get a raise, but the campaign would only do that if health care was cut.

Outside of that, I always figured people who worked for campaigns did it because they believed in the person, not to feed their family.

Last edited by itshotinvegas; 07-22-2019 at 12:46 PM. Reason: cut redundant part

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07-22-2019 , 12:59 PM

#409

Original Position

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Quote:

Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

Of course it depends on the person, but many field organizers move from campaign to campaign. Others are hoping to eventually get a better job working for the candidate or some other politician.

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07-22-2019 , 02:05 PM

#410

juan valdez

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,686

Quote:

Originally Posted by Original Position

Right, Sanders found a loophole in paying his staff less than $15 an hour. When called on it he made changes.... by reducing hours, not wages. Spending stayed the same afaik. These are the kind of things that have been argued with bernie and the $15 crowd for ages. He's literally acting out part of the counter argument.

Bernie rails against the rich which he defines as those who have more millions than himself or i guess those with 4 or more houses. then he fights for the working class and $15 an hour but when running his own budget hes using loopholes and then when caught, reducing their hours, not increasing his spending on their wage. Classic stuff

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07-22-2019 , 03:42 PM

#411

Huskalator

adept

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Yes Bernie's employees are "salaried" but if the employees measure their pay in $/hr worked and an adjustment was made in hrs worked to make the $/hr match a certain metric then it's not inconsistent to treat this as similar to hrly employees vs management.

Also, the employees are not concerned with hours worked but their ability to make a living so a cut in hrs worked does literally nothing for them but arbitrarily make their $/hr number go up. Bernie flat refuses to pay them more.

So yeah it's pretty funny that an old rich socialist butts up against the tradeoffs of the policies he espouses and predictably all that idealism goes out the window.

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07-22-2019 , 03:50 PM

#412

Luckbox Inc

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It should be illegal to pay salaries that low. There is too much room for abuse there which I know from experience.

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07-22-2019 , 04:53 PM

#413

tomdemaine

Just tries harder

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Huskalator

They're unionised and the union is negotiating. They've already won concessions and are likely to win more. That's how this is all supposed to work. I can see this trend of right wingers attacking the left from the left while at the same time supporting people 100 times worse than those they are attacked is going to be a thing. Love to see it.

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07-22-2019 , 04:59 PM

#414

Huskalator

adept

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tomdemaine

I can see this trend of right wingers attacking the left from the left while at the same time supporting people 100 times worse than those they are attacked is going to be a thing. Love to see it.

Nothing wrong with pointing out hypocrisy.

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07-22-2019 , 05:18 PM

#415

spanktehbadwookie

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Bernie, playing the role of management, doesn’t act like having a unionized shop is the end of the world.

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07-22-2019 , 05:34 PM

#416

chezlaw

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Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 47,225

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huskalator

Also, the employees are not concerned with hours worked but their ability to make a living so a cut in hrs worked does literally nothing for them but arbitrarily make their $/hr number go up.

This can't be true. I can't imagine many employees not being delighted to get the same money for less hours.

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07-22-2019 , 05:35 PM

#417

chezlaw

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Just on BS - I've no idea of election campaigning law in the USA. Does he have constraints on how much he can spend?

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07-22-2019 , 05:38 PM

#418

Original Position

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

Just on BS - I've no idea of election campaigning law in the USA. Does he have constraints on how much he can spend?

No.

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07-22-2019 , 05:40 PM

#419

chezlaw

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Ok txs

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07-22-2019 , 05:52 PM

#420

Huehuecoyotl

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Huskalator

Nothing wrong with pointing out hypocrisy.

It's the handmaiden of virtue though.

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07-22-2019 , 06:18 PM

#421

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huskalator

Nothing wrong with pointing out hypocrisy.

There is if doing so results in your own hypocrisy

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07-22-2019 , 06:24 PM

#422

Huskalator

adept

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 775

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

There is if doing so results in your own hypocrisy

Do tell

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07-22-2019 , 06:29 PM

#423

Huskalator

adept

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 775

Quote:

Originally Posted by chezlaw

This can't be true. I can't imagine many employees not being delighted to get the same money for less hours.

I would, you probably would I'm guessing, but these people are making a pretty low wage and are struggling to make ends meet if the employee's comments are to be believed.