Israel/Palestine thread - Page 810 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

No, you've got me mixed up with other people. Someone who lives in Gaza was most likely born after 1967. It's got little to do with the Nakba and everything to do with Israel building walls around them, isolating them, having snipers shoot at them and generally being at war with them their whole life.

In fact, it's basically not reading my posts because something I go back to time and time again is how wars do resolve peacefully and lot of things change. People will move on from the Nakba to a large degree when Palestinians are not living in refugee camps, or carved up into unworkable cantons in the WB, or blockaded in Gaza.

I don't agree with you, but then do Hezbollah or the Houthies or Iran. What would you like to put up as their "reasons"?

The Houthies are FAR away. They hate us so much they have it on their flag. Imagine?

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04-17-2024 , 12:09 PM

#20227

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Originally Posted by rafiki

War and propaganda. This would not happen were it not for war. Imagine Israel became one state at some point. I know that's not imaginable now, but maybe it was possible to imagine that on say, November 3rd, 1995. If Gazans and West Bank Palestinians became Israeli Arabs, and, like the Black people in South Africa, did not immediately vote to remove all the former ruling class, then likely the Houthi flag would be different.

As things are, Arabs in Yemen and Jews on the streets of NYC call for a lot of murder.

Last edited by microbet; 04-17-2024 at 12:16 PM.

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04-17-2024 , 12:09 PM

#20228

PointlessWords

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I really thought Judaism is the religion of peace

Am I wrong? Or are the pro IDF warmongers wrong?

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04-17-2024 , 12:13 PM

#20229

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Originally Posted by PointlessWords

I really thought Judaism is the religion of peace

Am I wrong? Or are the pro IDF warmongers wrong?

Dunno if you're a troll and I think maybe you are about some Jewish stuff, but you can't possibly be that dumb. All religions have people using them for peace and all have people using them for war. Even the Buddhists go on murderous rampages sometimes.

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04-17-2024 , 12:16 PM

#20230

Trolly McTrollson

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Originally Posted by rafiki

Considering nobody had killed as many Jews in a day as the Nazis before Hamas on Oct 7, I'd say they're doing a really good job trying to emulate them. Don't forget, the region has emulated/learned from the Nazis for a long time now, and that's just FACT now. Their affinity for their thinking is a matter of record going back to the Mufti and then every year thereafter.

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israe...esident-herzog

Hitler's 'Mein Kampf' found in Hamas base in Gaza - Israeli President Herzog
'The terrorist studied again and again the ideology of Adolf Hitler to hate the Jews, to kill the Jews.

That's real recent (months old). You want it to be one way Micro. But it's the other way

lol, your ability to make wild, sweeping generalizations based on the flimsiest imaginable evidence is astonishing.

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04-17-2024 , 12:21 PM

#20231

Trolly McTrollson

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Originally Posted by microbet

Comparing everything, especially Hamas to the Nazis is dumb. LOTS of wars have ended without annihilating one side. Nazi Germany was THE most powerful country in the world probably until late 1943.

Also, we didn't forcibly expel the German population from Germany after WWII?

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04-17-2024 , 12:22 PM

#20232

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Originally Posted by rafiki

Considering nobody had killed as many Jews in a day as the Nazis before Hamas on Oct 7,

I think it's possible more Jews died in 9/11. 3000 people died in the towers. Manhattan is over 20% Jewish and Jews were probably overrepresented in the towers.

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04-17-2024 , 12:27 PM

#20233

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Also, we didn't forcibly expel the German population from Germany after WWII?

Depends on who you asked and when. Some Germans, certainly at the time, thought Germany was expelled from parts of Germany. Germany still has some territorial disputes with Denmark, Poland and France. The war ended though and that's why the disputes are disputed so quietly that it doesn't get on the news.

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04-17-2024 , 12:37 PM

#20234

PointlessWords

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Originally Posted by microbet

Israel is totally full of brainwashing as is the US and probably Canada. We make 5 year olds recite a pledge every morning ffs.

Ya pledge of allegiance is some fascist ****

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Originally Posted by microbet

Comparing everything, especially Hamas to the Nazis is dumb. LOTS of wars have ended without annihilating one side. Nazi Germany was THE most powerful country in the world probably until late 1943.

I doubt it

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Originally Posted by microbet

Rabbi told me Judaism is about fostering life. You can only cut down a tree to build a residence and then two trees must be planted as a result of one tree being felled

Sounds very peaceful to me

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04-17-2024 , 12:38 PM

#20235

PointlessWords

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Originally Posted by rafiki

Who has killed the most Palestinians in a day and how many was it?

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04-17-2024 , 12:39 PM

#20236

Trolly McTrollson

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Originally Posted by microbet

Depends on who you asked and when. Some Germans, certainly at the time, thought Germany was expelled from parts of Germany.

OK, **** those guys specifically, I'm talking about the people who didn't think Germany has a claim on all of Europe. We didn't like forcibly expel all of the Germans from Berlin into France or whatever.

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04-17-2024 , 12:41 PM

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Imagine thinking situations don't change. In the 1970s you had to sign an affidavit saying you weren't Jewish to get into Saudi Arabia. As I understood it, even the US military on the downlow kept Jewish service members out. Jews go there all the time now. SA is full of American business and contractors and Jews go the same as anyone else.

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04-17-2024 , 12:41 PM

#20238

Victor

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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

Also, we didn't forcibly expel the German population from Germany after WWII?

we put them back in the gov and police and civil work of Germany. oh and NATO, we put a bunch of their people in NATO too.

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04-17-2024 , 12:44 PM

#20239

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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

I'm not talking about all of Europe. There are lots of areas that went back and forth between countries. The US ambassador to Czechoslovakia in 1918 (that was at the founding of Czechoslovakia - that state started in 1918 in the aftermath of WWI) was in favor of following what was then popular opinion in the Sudetenland and having it be part of Germany. There are parts of the border of Germany and France that flipped back and forth more than once in the 19th Century.

Point is, border disputes are normal. Lots of countries who are not at war have them.

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04-17-2024 , 12:45 PM

#20240

mongidig

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Originally Posted by Bill Haywood

Okay.

"Online controversy over graffiti by Israeli kids."

This is a nothing burger. missiles are lobbed in from Lebanon all the time. These kids and parents know these missiles are intended to kill terrorists. What's the issue here? This is nothing compared to families sending their kids to Hamas summer camp to learn to hate and kill Jews.

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04-17-2024 , 12:53 PM

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Originally Posted by Victor

we put them back in the gov and police and civil work of Germany. oh and NATO, we put a bunch of their people in NATO too.

Germans and Nazis were coddled for sure after WW2. Denazification was a joke. On the one hand, of course that is not just. On the other hand, Germany was back trying to take over the world 20 years after the Treaty of Versailles and now they are on an almost 80 year streak of not trying to take over the world.

War begets war. Killing begets killing. The only way to peace is through peace and reconciliation.

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04-17-2024 , 01:00 PM

#20242

Victor

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Originally Posted by microbet

on the other hand, almost always the oppressed are never just given rights and do need to fight for them.

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04-17-2024 , 01:05 PM

#20243

metsandfinsfan

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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson

I gotta apologize though, it seems Hamas really has been storing heavy weaponry in schools.

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/...eport-16apr24/

Color me shocked

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04-17-2024 , 01:10 PM

#20244

metsandfinsfan

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Originally Posted by microbet

They were basically forgiven as long as they paid reperations and showed they would never be like that again. That's why they are still so strict against antisemitism

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04-17-2024 , 01:11 PM

#20245

Victor

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Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

Color me shocked

this would be an actual Zionist argument actually.

we dropped so many bombs on Gaza that a lot of it is unexploded. therefore we gotta bomb more bc now Hamas has a bunch of bombs from us.

and Hamas does actually have whole teams of people that repurpose the unexploded stuff for IEDs and other weaponry so it is a lot more consistent than most of your arguments. its just, you guys put the bombs there.

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04-17-2024 , 01:19 PM

#20246

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Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

They were basically forgiven as long as they paid reperations and showed they would never be like that again. That's why they are still so strict against antisemitism

Nazis were not really forgiven, it was more like it was ignored. There was a pretense of denazification, and for the most part people bought it. Hardly anyone realizes that the big Nuremberg punishments for the Nazi regime consisted of a whole ten people getting hung. The USA and UK in actual wisdom, helped and integrated West Germany and Japan and there has been peace.

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04-17-2024 , 01:25 PM

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Originally Posted by Victor

on the other hand, almost always the oppressed are never just given rights and do need to fight for them.

For sure. Just like the Black South Africans, the path to change will not end with some giant military victory over Israel, but a struggle, sometimes violent, is part of what forces the issue. And again, despite the fact that Jews are involved, this situation is nothing like Nazi Germany, but it is a lot like South Africa.

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04-17-2024 , 01:35 PM

#20248

rafiki

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Originally Posted by microbet

Was it like South Africa in the decades before 1948 in Israel? Asking for a friend.

What was the reasoning then?

I can pull no less than 50+ of these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed

What had the IDF done over a hundred years before the IDF existed? Jews have been getting tormented in Israel since long before there was an Israel.

they
don't
like
us

Last edited by rafiki; 04-17-2024 at 02:02 PM.