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10-09-2024 , 04:45 PM

#35701

BOIDS

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 14,960

damn now hezbollah are attacking BELGIANS

Quote

10-09-2024 , 04:50 PM

#35702

checkraisdraw

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 5,238

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

maybe either of you could point me to the part where it says Gaza isnt occupied. bc the part that checkraise cited makes it pretty clear they are ruling Gaza is indeed occupied.

I didn’t say they said Gaza wasn’t occupied. I said they didn’t consider it as part of the scope of their ruling. They considered all areas as part of one discrete unit called the Palestinian Occupied Territories.

In fact if you read further they criticized Israel for not carrying on their duties as an occupier, heavily implying they should be more involved with setting up Palestinian government. I doubt you would be in favor of that.

Quote

10-09-2024 , 04:52 PM

#35703

IMBLUEtheONE

temp-banned

Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 280

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

maybe either of you could point me to the part where it says Gaza isnt occupied. bc the part that checkraise cited makes it pretty clear they are ruling Gaza is indeed occupied.

read the decision, we are not going to wright a book report for you.

and it is a futile argument, as Gaza was objectively not occupied between 2005-2023.

between 1967 till 2005, Israel definitely occupied Gaza, and was in the wrong for that. the settlements built there were a catastrophe and only pleased the whims of fanatical lunatics.

But Israel did vacate Gaza. and actually paid in some manners "restitution", by leaving plants and infrastructures, and even donating money to keep them going. what should we have done more, MR. perfect morals?

Quote

10-09-2024 , 04:55 PM

#35704

Victor

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Quote:

Originally Posted by IMBLUEtheONE

12 people were shot dead by a tank in Beeri. maybe some more were caught in crossfire, but there is no real evidence of that.

zero israeli's civilians were gunned down by helicopters. i have so many people i know who were eye witnesses, including survivors and soldiers who came to the rescues.

in fact, the helicopters unit was not on duty on that day, that's why it took them hours to start engaging. even than, they were almost devoid of intel, so they were un helpful at first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5 south

Yeah, maybe I was thinking of the tank incident.

there were survivors from helicopter attacks too. I would need more time to find that interview.

regardless, helicopters were deployed almost immediately. again, Israeli media

https://w.ynet.co.il/yediot/7-days/time-of-darkness

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10-09-2024 , 04:57 PM

#35705

Victor

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Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

well this guy is saying that the court ruled they were occupied. and he posted a pretty important citation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMBLUEtheONE

but you are saying the report says something that no one else has said. I think at this point the onus is on you. pretty disingenuous to say that I am asking for a book report. you could just screenshot the citation.

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10-09-2024 , 05:01 PM

#35706

IMBLUEtheONE

temp-banned

Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 280

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

there were survivors from helicopter attacks too. I would need more time to find that interview.

regardless, helicopters were deployed almost immediately. again, Israeli media

https://w.ynet.co.il/yediot/7-days/time-of-darkness

the two helicopters that were on duty (that's not a squadron) fought to protect the bases.

there is actual video footage from them for the entire timeline that was published. they hardly engaged, as they didn't have intel.

the unit wasn't deployed till hours later, as the pilots were at home. the "zik" is not a combat chopper, only the apache

Quote

10-09-2024 , 05:03 PM

#35707

checkraisdraw

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 5,238

The court ruled they were occupied because they consider Palestine to be one occupied territory so by transitive property the entirety of it is occupied. But they basically say that Israel is not doing enough as an occupying power to help Palestinians build a government as they need to act like a quasi-government if they can’t establish a functioning Palestinian government.

Is that what you are saying you want to happen, for Israel to restart its military occupation and do an Iraq-style rebuild on Palestinian Territories?

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10-09-2024 , 05:06 PM

#35708

IMBLUEtheONE

temp-banned

Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 280

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

well this guy is saying that the court ruled they were occupied. and he posted a pretty important citation.

but you are saying the report says something that no one else has said. I think at this point the onus is on you. pretty disingenuous to say that I am asking for a book report. you could just screenshot the citation.

Status of the Occupied Palestinian Territory — The West Bank and East Jerusalem are
occupied territories in which Israel has status of occupying Power — Examination of status of the
Gaza Strip — Israel’s obligations in the Gaza Strip are commensurate with degree of its effective
control.

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10-09-2024 , 05:06 PM

#35709

Victor

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Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

brb, about to search for the word 'transitive' in the ruling.

I think they ruled Gaza occupied bc you know, it is occupied just like the rest of the territory.

Quote

10-09-2024 , 05:08 PM

#35710

IMBLUEtheONE

temp-banned

Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 280

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

brb, about to search for the word 'transitive' in the ruling.

I think they ruled Gaza occupied bc you know, it is occupied just like the rest of the territory.

i just quoted from the ruling, and they are clearly different between the west bank and Gaza.

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10-09-2024 , 05:10 PM

#35711

Victor

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Quote:

Originally Posted by IMBLUEtheONE

do I even need to go on?

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10-09-2024 , 05:14 PM

#35712

IMBLUEtheONE

temp-banned

Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 280

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

do I even need to go on?

yes, you are proving my statements. keep going

Quote

10-09-2024 , 05:18 PM

#35713

Victor

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 76,542

Quote:

in fact, the helicopters unit was not on duty on that day, that's why it took them hours to start engaging. even than, they were almost devoid of intel, so they were un helpful at first.

I mean this is what you said. it sure looks like the helicopters got there pretty fast. about an hour into the attack give or take. you make it seem like they were super late and didnt do much.

they got there quick and fired a ton of ammo!

Quote

10-09-2024 , 05:19 PM

#35714

Bill Haywood

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 5,518

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

they got there quick and fired a ton of ammo!

And it wasn't 5.56 bullets.

Quote

10-09-2024 , 05:21 PM

#35715

5 south

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 7,284

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMBLUEtheONE

Not meant to be a gotcha but:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...re-2024-04-05/

For Victor's greatest hits:
"In one remarkable part of the account, Lt. Col. E. describes firing upon an ambulance on the Gaza side of the border, admitting that they were not entirely sure whether the wounded person being carried to it was a hostage or a militant."

https://www.twz.com/air/israeli-ah-6...ber-7-missions

Quote

10-09-2024 , 05:25 PM

#35716

checkraisdraw

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 5,238

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

brb, about to search for the word 'transitive' in the ruling.

I think they ruled Gaza occupied bc you know, it is occupied just like the rest of the territory.

I don’t think you read the ruling and are just guessing based on how you feel.

Notice I didn’t use quotes, I was paraphrasing.

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10-09-2024 , 05:30 PM

#35717

Victor

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Quote:

Originally Posted by checkraisdraw

I don’t think you read the ruling and are just guessing based on how you feel.

Notice I didn’t use quotes, I was paraphrasing.

I think you are the one grasping with this ludicrous interpretation where they were using the "transitive" property and didnt actually mean what they literally said.

Quote

10-09-2024 , 06:02 PM

#35718

checkraisdraw

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 5,238

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

I think you are the one grasping with this ludicrous interpretation where they were using the "transitive" property and didnt actually mean what they literally said.

They grouped everything as one unit, so if West Bank is being occupied then so is Gaza. Do you deny this?

Oh god, I think you don’t know what transitive means lol

Quote

10-09-2024 , 06:06 PM

#35719

Victor

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you are injecting meaning that isnt there. there is nothing at all in the report to indicate it is "transitive." they are treating the whole area as occupied bc the whole area is indeed occupied.

Quote

10-09-2024 , 06:11 PM

#35720

Bubble_Balls

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 3,027

I imagine most Americans critical of Israel agree that Hamas is a despicable organization and that Palestinians are not blameless. That’s basically a forgone conclusion that doesn’t need to be debated in most circles. The fact that the American government supports Israel and much of the media is sympathetic to Israel is why the critical commentary focuses on that. That’s not any different from America’s past wars.

Why wouldn’t you be hyper focused on whether your government and your taxes were being used wisely for something that involves killing people? I can study the ills of Hamas all day long but I can’t vote them out like I can my own politicians.

Last edited by Crossnerd; 10-11-2024 at 03:21 PM.

Quote

10-09-2024 , 06:15 PM

#35721

Victor

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 76,542

almost all of the Palestinians dead or amputated or mentally destroyed are blameless. victim blaming is disgusting.

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10-09-2024 , 06:24 PM

#35722

Bubble_Balls

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 3,027

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

almost all of the Palestinians dead or amputated or mentally destroyed are blameless. victim blaming is disgusting.

I’m not talking about kids being directly responsible for their own deaths. I’m talking about the opinions of a society of adults. The exact same way Israelis are not blameless.

Quote

10-09-2024 , 06:55 PM

#35723

DoyleBrunsonFan

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2019 Posts: 669

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victor

almost all of the Palestinians dead or amputated or mentally destroyed are blameless. victim blaming is disgusting.

A lot of them are or were Hamas militants so they are totally to blame.

Quote

10-09-2024 , 06:58 PM

#35724

Victor

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 76,542

There's 300k dead at his point so no, they weren't.

Quote

10-09-2024 , 07:04 PM

#35725

mongidig

temp-banned

Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 7,416

There is no path to a Palestinian state. There is no way Israel can allow a terrorist nation to have the high ground which is what would happen if they gave up the West Bank. The best solution would be for Israel to gain sovereignty over Gaza and the West Bank. They would need to deport all terrorists and terrorist sympathizers. Then Arabs could begin a path to Israeli citizenship. This would be the best case scenario for the Arabs. They would have the opportunity to make a lot more money than if they were in an Arab run state. There's a reason why Arabs from Gaza and the West Bank line up to go to Israel and work.

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