Israel and the USA repeatedly invoke the Holocaust explicitly and implicitly to justify this murder spree.

Yeah, and smart reasonable people say that's terrible.

Maybe someone called them a Nazi first and they were just being dumb and childish when they compared Hamas to the Holocaust.

I'll take South Africa a million times over Nazi Germany, but I just want to point out. In Israel:

- There are no laws mandating segregation in public facilities
- Israel doesn't have laws that discriminate/classify by ethnicity
- There aren't interfaith marriage laws that I know of like there were in SA
- Arab citizens of Israel have full and equal citizenship rights
- Arab citizens may vote, they may hold office, and serve at all levels of government. There are Arabs in the Knesset
- Arab Israelis have access to the same healthcare and public schools as Jews. There are also no legally segregated school systems
- If you're an Arab citizen, you have freedom of movement. In Apartheid South Africa, they did not

I'm sure there are other points I'm missing. So look if you wanna compare to SA, sure. But people should know the above then. Because in all those ways, they are not the same.

But then black people under Apartheid could at least stay in their shitty houses and shitty jobs in the shittiest parts of the country and not have their kids blown apart in front of them x thousands, so there is that.

Similarities include seeing and treating the subjugated people as less than human.

cmon man.

Who needs laws when you have fences and the military patrolling it?

Gazans aren't citizens in Israel guys. Those are Palestinians. That is Gaza.

My post speaks to the over 2 million Arab citizens in Israel. If you visit Israel, you will find it different in all the ways I listed to apartheid SA.

When Gazans had work permits to enter Israel (before Sinwar robbed them of that privilege), they were visiting another country to come work. It's not like they live in Israel and pay Israeli taxes or anything. That is another place, run by the government of Hamas. They have their own rules, government, and customs over there.

How about the Arabs in the occupied territories?

Right, there is no perfect analogy. Gaza is not really part of Israel, but it's also not really independent of Israel. The WB is different in some ways and similar in others. Ok. Use analogies when they are useful. Seems simple, but then there's really no point to this discussion anyway, so w/e.

Weird it's not quoting your whole post.

You can definitely get in and out of Gaza. It's $350-$400, or a Passport (which is more of a process).

There are millions of Palestinians that live abroad. How do you think they get there? One of our good family friends who owns a restaurant is from Gaza. He didn't teleport here.

In some ways yes and in some ways no, right?

But occupied by Israel.

In our lifetime, let us hope it can be. It has the potential to be something great.

Before this war it had beaches, malls, internationally recognized hotels, commerce, good schools. It needs to be brought back to that, under a new regime.

you want the arabs controlling gaza?

I apologize for the comparison. I do agree it is an awful thing to say

It is not as awful as killing kids nor is it as awful as supporting killing kids.

The issues of augmenting internal power and water (they had their own covering over 80% of the draw down) is one that I think has to be part of the rebuild plan. They need to be able to stand on their own feet because I think that sort of self determination is powerful. I believe every group and nation wants that for itself. And they'll be a great nation in time. But you have to put the billions into power and water, and not missiles and tunnels. That's what the whole rest of the world is looking to next.

All the other ways they could become a nation after that, I totally agree with you. Control over your air and sea, imports, and all the other freedoms we enjoy, are necessary parts of a long term vision. But that won't work if it's just to build up more invasion strength. There needs to be a movement from inside Gaza willing to put away the ic "River to the Sea" fantasy, and work towards a better future for their kids.

Like an Eastern Cote d'Azur but built on the bones of thousands of children blown up by Israeli bombs? Cool. Do you have any artists impressions we can see?

lol

what can you get for 400 in gaza? nothing. at least not what you are saying. nobody gets out. got out or anything. youre a terrible liar there.
more like 10 to 20k a person needs to get out of gaza.

that is all lies ofc and for 99% of the people even a passport would be impossible. even with a passport that wouldnt get them anywhere.
it is unrealistic for them to leave.

If only the black people in the first concentration camps in South Africa had just had the common sense to walk right out they could have become restaurant owners in Canada.

I can think of an analogy but you won't like it and it has been made illegal to this thread

We're discussing a very complex war in here, one that started when 36 Israeli kids were killed Oct 7th (and others taken). Nobody is suggesting that anyone supports killing kids from those dead Jews. It's a horrible thing, they're dead. Now we talk about the unfolding war. It's a war we (in this thread) didn't start, and a war we can't end.

Yes yes, we did this before with "no women in Hamas". I'm not going to worry about convincing you of things I know already to be true. We can both carry on with our day. Cheers.

There is no reason it can't be in time based on numerous models out there regionally. Funny enough Lebanon was always called the Switzerland of the Middle East. So your sarcasm is kind of right on.

For what it's worth, Manila was completely destroyed. Look at it now.