We were straight up told to leave by Mat. I can dig up the quote if it helps.

Who is it that teaches you guys to just call anything you don’t like “emotional?” Is that a tip you picked up from Sam Harris’s podcast?

I realize I sound like a broken record here, but perhaps if you don’t actually know what happened you don’t need to chime in?

As far as I know this argument is not about whether or not racial differences exist in different measures. Everyone agrees those differences exist. The argument is about whether there is sufficient evidence to support claims for biological causes of those differences over sociological explanations grounded in socio-economic and other environmental differences explained mostly by historical factors. It should be obvious why this argument is important to people, not just because one side of the argument is advancing essentially racist conclusions, but also because some (Murray in particular) use this data to argue against policy interventions intended to address the historical causes of racial inequality.

There is, in fact, ample evidence for the importance of environmental explanations of these differences. See for example this 2017 report on educational attainment gaps from the Stanford Center on Poverty and Inequality, as just one example among many. The amount of evidence arguing for the importance of environmental factors is overwhelming. Meanwhile, the evidence for biology is much weaker.

Even in the Bell Curve data, IQ (used as a proxy for biology, which is also somewhat problematic) differences only explain 5-10% of the variance in actual outcomes (cf. Inequality By Design). Other research aimed at correlating socioeconomic outcomes to differences in intelligence have had similar results, with respect to explained variance. So, even in the data that is supposed to be making a strong case for a "genotocracy", what is evident is that environmental factors play a much larger role. Even if we assume that GWAS methodologies and other improvements in genetics research will lead to an increase in the %-variance explained by these studies (I think this is likely when comparing individuals), it's quite unreasonable to conclude -- in the face of so much evidence -- that somehow biology trumps environment.

"The management kicked out the liberal posters" is a true enough statement. The fact that they aren't literally all banned doesn't change that. We probably don't need to discuss it here, although I almost prefer it to the current topic :P

I am on safari in Botsawana and so don't have enough time to talk about this in detail, but what in the love of Christ are you talking about?

It's possible. It's certainly a more useful discussion than screaming about racism for 25 years while literally nothing changes about the problem

I was mocking the idea that you guys pretend to be SJW by the hypocritical stance that some information is too dangerous for dumb people and fly's response was, "yeah, you're ****ing stupid buddy, look at this sarcastic post you made"

It is beyond hilarious how delusional you appear to be

Probably because you only pop in to make nothing sarcastic remarks like your on some pedistal talking down to the ******s.

Again, it's a delusion you seem incapable of wrapping your head around

You're name is trolly and all your posts are sarcastic troll remarks. Blow me away. Hit me with some facts. Let me have it. I honestly don't think you have it in you

Yeah, no ****, man. This is precisely why AEI pays Murray to peddle racist bull**** that justifies the status quo.

16 years of Democratic representation since 1994 to 9 of Republican. Must be ol Charles Murray just holding everyone down. All the problems can be traced back to Charles Murray!

And racists obv

We tried telling black people they’re genetically inferior and the problem didn’t go away!

If there's significant genomic difference, then it's moronic to attempt to dismiss the argument by saying "
a) there is so much genetic mixing within the whole human population"


You literally just denied the validity of *any* attempt to measure intelligence. "b) intelligence is not some simple phenomena"

FYP.

I dont know what you're doing, but even BTM would be jealous of that level of self-incoherent ****posting. This is Shandrax level awful. What happened to you?

No, you don't.


Just to be clear, though, the thing about black people being innately less intelligent than white people... you believe that. I was right when I said it then, I'm still right now.

Uh, ok, so go ahead. But just to be clear, when I threw that basket of acronyms at you(AFDC, TANF, AEI), you know what zero of them stand for, right?

Do you have a thesis? Like is there an actual point you want to make that isn't just whining about me?

(also, jesus christ, look at that marvelous example of how IDW fans see whiteness as the default and how conservatives are convinced that everyone else is just as racist as they are but liberals are lying for klout. "desperate want everyone to believe you defend"? Mother****er I am quite sincerely an advocate for the human race, I'm in favor of it as a whole.

Kelhus badly needs to read the chapter of How We Know What Isn't So about "self-handicapping", it's a really bad rhetorical tic and he puts it in nearly every post.

chez's posts have been completely reasonable in this thread. His point is that while there are significant genetic differences between white Americans and black Americans, there is no evidence that these differences are what account for any significant part of the difference in standardised testing results.

Simply put, there is plenty of evidence that race is correlated with standardised testing results. There is no evidence that differences in the genetic make-up of different races is a causal factor in differing standardised testing results.

No, you're hate filled and toxic and completely oblivious to this fact.

I appreciate your honesty lol, but just to clarify, I'm very well aware of how "toxic" my posts are to racists and reactionaries. I've spent a bunch of this thread talking about how substantive disagreement from the left triggers the hell out of you people. I know, man, I do it anyway because I'm not trying to be your friend.

I place almost no value on protecting the feelings of people with reprehensible views, it's one of the reasons the old forum closed.

Can we talk about the effectiveness of this sort of Libertarian agitprop? 25 years after the Bell Curve and we still have people like you coming onto the internet to tell us that we can’t simply “throw money at the problem” because black folks are simply innately unintelligent. That’s exactly what the rich *******s who pay Murray wanted! It’s probably far beyond their expectations. AEI 100% got their money’s worth with this guy.

Hue's point about how the more targeted elitism of Bel Curve 1.0 about how the rich are justly the superior caste failed because you can't openly advocate for aristocracy, so Murray pivoted to aligning himself with the racial frame on welfare spending was obviously ignored by all these guys but boy was that a good decision.

Im gonna break. You guys are legitimately stupid. And all your posts come from a position of intellectual superiority. It's pointless.

Crying about Charles Murray is about as fruitful as me crying about fly. The proof is there because his work has been dragged across the coals since literally day 1.

My favorite bit from the last few days is this notion that America just isn’t ready for the radical new idea that black people are inferior. Like, man, when you guys get around to learning about books you’re going to learn some really wild stuff about the world.

Hey guys, if cry about how racist Charles Murphy is for another 25 years MAYBE something will change. Hey guys, if we get furious and shoot down an argument that no one made in this thread MAYBE we will accomplish something

Pure ignorance

Again, I don’t know who taught you the rhetorical trick of calling anything you don’t like “emotional”, but it really isn’t working the way you want it to.

you really couldn't sum up this forum better in 50 words or less. kudos.

I was really hopeful when this new forum started that we would finally get to the bottom of the "is it Ok to rape slaves" conundrum, but feels like we are still a few months away from that.

Sam Harris: Has Murray on podcast
Nobody:
Fly: