- lmao at this attempt, I know (and have always known) what your other accounts are
- you're right, me being a better person than you or grizy is extremely predictable and not a surprise

Anyways,

I may vote Bernie. Not my first choice, but neither is Trump. I would definitely like to hear more about the specifics of his policies, especially how he would go about taxing the top 1% without the upper middle class non wealthy taking the brunt; which is how I cynically think tax reform would take place in practice.

It's not hard to find, but admittedly it's not in podcast or yout00bz format.

Well, it looks like he is going to get the nomination, so I am sure details will filter into the podcast/Youtube world in the coming months.

So, that's not actually having all that much interest in finding out, then?

1% means 450k in america ?

so yeah they would be taking the brunt of it

One of my concerns with Trump not being re-elected is that he would say it was rigged, refuse to leave office, and it would create political/social chaos. Ironically, at least in my mind it seems Sanders winning the presidency over him would mitigate this somewhat, as he would have less ammunition going against another populist as opposed to a mainstream Democratic. Harder to argue the election was rigged by Hillary or Obama if the candidate who wins neither of them likes.

I thought most people agreed that the wall stuff was just fodder for his base and that he had no intention of building any of it and that they basically hadn't constructed any other than a few random sections for photo-ops?
Still catching up to this thread but I'll be not voting again like I've done every year since the one time I made that mistake. It's always an option.

This seems reasonable. I enjoy how they've basically recreated the stuff with his wife Mary whatsherface with Kellyanne and George.

Bernie can't win!!!

Also,

i think senior military types dislike trump (and there is evidence of such, even though senior types are probably more R than D) AND i think they'd feel very very strongly in some combination of "enforcing rule of law" and "upholding the constitution"

in fact, i'm waiting for an anonymous petition of senior military types saying trump is the threat to the security of the United States.

OP, what exactly will happen after Sanders wins that's so horrific?

my gut is that bernie couldn't win if he was running against jeb/marco/kasitch/etc..... but against trump, anything is possible.

one thing to keep in mind is bernie is very popular it seems with hispanics... if he did well in florida and texas in presidential election, that would make things tough. get a VP candidate from one of those states. i do realize bernie doesn't poll well in florida. and he'd probably need heavy hispanic turnout in those states. but i think bernie/AOC/trump//etc. will have woken up turnout for the foreseeable future.

i tend to agree......... if president could get alot of stuff done himself, it would be different.

i'm a bit worried the presidency and house may bounce back in forth between fox news-ism and ultra-progressivism. not good for stability.

we need obama to challenge the two term limit.

I'm having a hard time picking my favorite argument itt so far, between

"Trump has already wrecked our nation to the bottom, he can't make it any worse"

&

"I can't bring myself to vote for anyone who actually gives a **** about the country"

My understanding is that the hispanics in Florida hate socialism (lots of Cubans and Venezuelans). Maybe in Texas though.

If Texas swings, does Florida still matter?

that makes sense. thank you ......... when i look at the predictit.org map of the democratic race. florida is the only state that is bloomberg.

biden off and on has some SEC states. buttigieg has iowa. sometimes AK has minnesota and that's it.

i understand predicitit.org isn't "significant real money" site by any standard. very fan-boyish......... i'll check oddschecker.com. there you could probably in theory bet alot more (at one of the featured sites, like betfair exchange)

My understanding is Bernie used to be very against high immigration of unskilled labor, legal and illegal. Which is consistent with socialistic principles, as increasing the unskilled labor pool through immigration to weaken labor is one of the key pillars of the neoliberal wealth transfer system from the working to the elite class that has been going on the last few generations.

It seems he has softened that rhetoric somewhat, but it would be interesting how he plans to address the dichotomy between woke neoliberal progressivism, which encourages immigration of unskilled labor, and socialistic pro-labor economic principles that oppose it.

https://youtu.be/vf-k6qOfXz0
This is the clip you want.
"Open borders...that's a Koch brothers proposal. That's a right wing proposal that says there essentially is no United States".
People here might have a hard time wrapping their heads around that one.

i was the one who mentioned texas swinging...... any idea what the odds are?... beto did so well against cruz... not sure what hispanic turnout is.... anyway, high hispanic turnout in texas is the ultimate R presidential election nightmare.

i've been looking at swing states............ the latest polls i saw had trump very strong in wisconsin but penn/michigan going back to dem's comfortably..

if wisconsin stays trump, then dem's need another state they lost in 2016.. florida? iowa? north carolina? arizona? texas? indiana (buttigieg VP only) ........ arizona seems to be really in play. wouldn't that be brilliant if arizona/mccain/hispanics caused trump to lose re-election?

The immigration issue is also where the comparison to Scandinavian countries falls apart. Scandinavian countries have strong immigration laws that they actually enforce, as (unlike it appears most of the progressives on this board) they understand simple economics of not being able to sustain a generous welfare state AND have a sizable, growing, uneducated underclass.

if you took 2016 results and texas swung to D the dems would be at 270, meaning they wouldn't need any of penn/mich/wisc to go back D.

of course, if texas went D it might even be needed as it would suggest dems did well in other swingier states.

it's just interesting how many different combo's get you close to 270 for one side

and don't forget that one electoral college vote in a region of nebraska....

isn't sweden crammed with non-white immigrants now? it surprises me but that's what i read... i wonder if it's just complaining about small number of immigrants.

finland/norway/denmark/etc.. i have no idea.. and some are members of EU. sweden i'm not sure either.

Well, the people here don't really understand how the moral neoliberalism they adhere to is actually very anti-socialistic. And it would be interesting to see how Sanders as president would navigate this dichotomy.

I find it pretty unlikely that Bloom will win Florida in the primaries. Florida Ds are pretty progressive. That said, Latins in Florida don't really fit the voting demographics from the rest of the country. Cubans, Venezuelans, Puerto Ricans, either hate communism, have asylum rights or already US citizens, not a ton of Mexican or Central Americans.