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02-05-2020 , 01:20 AM

#751

uke_master

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Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 17,228

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Please give me your definition of "transphobic."

This is a grade school level debating move. Words are not defined by individuals. They are defined collectively. The word has a well established meaning in society. This isn't even a hard word for your to stumble with. Do you struggle similarly to understand words like racism and sexism? Are they also as hilarious and stupid to you?

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02-05-2020 , 01:22 AM

#752

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

They knew she would say things that they disagreed with. That's about it.

What was the nature of the disagreement?

Quote

02-05-2020 , 01:22 AM

#753

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Was Hitler defeated by Jews saying "Uh, actually, no, don't gas us?"

Was Ms.Coulter advocating violence?

Quote

02-05-2020 , 01:22 AM

#754

uke_master

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

So, being CONTENTIOUS is bad?

Depends what it is. If you're being contentious saying something like "young earth creationism is obviously false nonsense" then no that is entirely fine. If you are being contentious saying something like "that trans female is really a man" then you are being transphobic.

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02-05-2020 , 01:23 AM

#755

MrWookie

Don't Call Me Meredith

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 94,159

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Was Ms.Coulter advocating violence?

Have you looked up her thoughts on police killing unarmed black people?

Quote

02-05-2020 , 01:24 AM

#756

uke_master

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Was Ms.Coulter advocating violence?

Yes. Not in a "hit a person standing beside you" kind of way. In a "advocating for policies that are extremely harmful to certain groups of people" way.

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02-05-2020 , 01:24 AM

#757

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke_master

(misread post)

My apologies

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02-05-2020 , 01:26 AM

#758

uke_master

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

So instead of defining the word for me, you engage in name calling.

Thanks for playing, troll.

You mistake my post. It wasn't a troll. I was genuinely explaining the issue with "define a word" for me type arguments.

Let me ask it in a simple way: do you struggle with the definitions of racism, sexism, anti-semitism, etc?

Can you define those words?

If you can, can you now define transphobia?

DUCY?

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02-05-2020 , 01:30 AM

#759

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke_master

By that definition, then being "transphobic," isn't necessarily a bad thing, in my opinion.

Quote

02-05-2020 , 01:31 AM

#760

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke_master

I did misread your post, and deleted by comment.

My apologies.

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02-05-2020 , 01:36 AM

#761

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke_master

-ism, as a suffix, is to put heavy emphasis on something, typically an EXAGGERATED emphasis.

-phobic as a suffix is an irrational fear. It had a technical meaning in psychology.

Quote

02-05-2020 , 01:38 AM

#762

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWookie

Have you looked up her thoughts on police killing unarmed black people?

No.

Quote

02-05-2020 , 01:41 AM

#763

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke_master

So, we can't have a serious debate about what a "man," is?

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02-05-2020 , 02:41 AM

#764

uke_master

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

By that definition, then being "transphobic," isn't necessarily a bad thing, in my opinion.

Do you think being "racist" isn't necessarily a bad thing?

I'm very confused why you find "transphobic" a challenging term. Your first reaction was to lol not at the concept but then the word. Then you said the word was stupid. Now you are wavering over whether it is or is not bad. Do you find "racist" similarly hilarious and stupid?

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02-05-2020 , 02:44 AM

#765

uke_master

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

-ism, as a suffix, is to put heavy emphasis on something, typically an EXAGGERATED emphasis.

-phobic as a suffix is an irrational fear. It had a technical meaning in psychology.

So what? transphobia/homophobia/islamophobia and so forth are not invoking a technical psychological meaning. Again, there is little value in debating the particular word that society has chosen to label something. All sorts of english words are "stupid" in the sense that they don't obey a literal meaning from some technical origins.

The only reason I can currently come up with that you are so very worried about the choice of word here is that you are, in fact, transphobic. Can you suggest another reason why you seem to care about the word society has chosen so much?

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02-05-2020 , 02:47 AM

#766

uke_master

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

So, we can't have a serious debate about what a "man," is?

Depends very much on context.

There certainly is an established and absolutely disgusting, transphobic line of attack against trans people that tries to deny their identity in a way that pivots the debate to faux-scientific claims about biology. I'm guessing you mean that. If so, no that debate is seeped in transphobia and I wouldn't want a serious debate on that. In some other context, maybe.

Quote

02-05-2020 , 03:16 AM

#767

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke_master

I asked for a definition of "transphobic." You gave me a definition. I think your definition is quite reasonable. By your definition, in my opinion, being transphobic is not necessarily a bad thing. Someone else might define it in such a manner that being transphobic is ALWAYS a bad thing. For example, if transphobic means to "hate trans people", then transphobia is always a bad thing, in my opinion.

If racism means to hate someone because of their race, then I think racism is always a bad thing.

Hope that helps.

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02-05-2020 , 03:19 AM

#768

lagtight

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Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Trans people are made in the image of God, and as such they should be treated with dignity.

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02-05-2020 , 03:43 AM

#769

uke_master

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

I didn’t give a definition, I explicitly said definitions were defined by societies. This shouldn’t be hard, the connotations of racism and transphobia parallel one another. And no, “hate” is far so strong a criteria. All sorts of things are racist or transphobic that don’t imply there is a literal hatred. The problem of cops shooting unarmed black men isn’t hatred exactly, it’s more complicated than that.

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02-05-2020 , 03:46 AM

#770

uke_master

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Trans people are made in the image of God, and as such they should be treated with dignity.

Ok. So you think laughing when the term transphobia is mentioned is treating trans people with dignity?

Quote

02-05-2020 , 03:49 AM

#771

D-Beat

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Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 3,009

Hatred has almost nothing to do with any of this.

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02-05-2020 , 04:15 AM

#772

Huehuecoyotl

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

While I oppose violence, there is a big difference between burning a building because some warmonger is literally gonna ship you and your friends to Nam to be shot at, and rioting because some journalist/podcaster hurts your feelings.

I'm sure you feel like there's a difference, but this whole "Berkeley is home to the Free Speech Movement" idea is that those guys would have listened to Coulter while modern free speech advocates wouldn't, but I don't think it's at all clear that they would have let her speak as opposed to bombing her events.

Last edited by Huehuecoyotl; 02-05-2020 at 04:22 AM.

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02-05-2020 , 04:35 AM

#773

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke_master

Ok. So you think laughing when the term transphobia is mentioned is treating trans people with dignity?

I'm not laughing at trans person's. I'm laughing at people who make up a silly word that is used as a term of opprobium for people who think that maybe (for example) letting sexually-confused boys dress up as girls at school may not be a great thing for the kid.

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02-05-2020 , 04:44 AM

#774

lagtight

banned

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 10,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke_master

Okay, you didn't give a definition. But the example you gave as an instance of homophobia isn't something that I would say is a bad thing.

If it's homophobic to say that you can't change your gender by a "sex-change" operation, then I guess I'm unapologetically homophobic.

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02-05-2020 , 05:02 AM

#775

Huehuecoyotl

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lagtight

Then yes you're homophobic. AFAIK no one says you can change your sex, but changing your gender is certainly possible. People have been passing as the opposite sex by imitating the social cues that society links between a gender and sex since time immemorial

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