Gun Control and Mass Shootings - Page 15 - Politics and Society -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

I still can't get a 2A purist to tell me why it's ok that submachine guns are highly regulated and mostly illegal - but doing something similar with high capacity magazines and assault rifles is the road to tyranny.

Can't remember too many mass shootings with a fully automatic Uzi lately. Seems like the NFA is doing its job.

Is banning bump stocks also a road to tyranny? Trump was for that for a couple minutes there.

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09-02-2019 , 01:00 PM

#352

suzzer99

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09-02-2019 , 01:00 PM

#353

itshotinvegas

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Originally Posted by suzzer99

Well, you being a fan of vigilante violence, to a degree, should be able to come up with a few reasonable guesses. (they have similar fears that you do, just a different context, i.e. you fear racist, they fear people like you who don't mind they get punched in the face)

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09-02-2019 , 01:07 PM

#354

suzzer99

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Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

Some seriously unemotional stone cold reasoning here as usual.

Feel free to stay on topic and reply to my post - why is it ok to highly regulate submachine guns - but if we do something similar for high-capacity magazines, AR-15s, and bump stocks - it's the road to tyranny?

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09-02-2019 , 01:13 PM

#355

itshotinvegas

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Originally Posted by suzzer99

I'm not a 2A enthusiast, but it revolves around degrees. A fully automatic weapon is a degree to far, to them. 2A enthusiast do believe in gun control, just not as much as you.

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09-02-2019 , 02:00 PM

#356

suzzer99

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That couldn’t be more wrong. 2A purists universally declare that any restrictions on guns are unconstitutional.

They just ignore the submachine gun argument, or quibble about the definition of “illegal” and “fully automatic”. And then without fail - sneer at their opponent for knowing less about gunzz than they do.

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09-02-2019 , 02:03 PM

#357

Willd

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Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

Lot of people here (including me) don't have an issue with decriminalized/legal drugs, despite OD's deaths's being more prevalent than gun deaths.

I'm not sure whether I misunderstood your point with this but the logic in this post seems backwards. A lot of people support decriminalized/legal drugs because aside from the liberty/freedom arguments there is also a strong argument that it would result in fewer ODs/deaths due to destigmatisation making it easier to get help and there being greater availability of safer options. From a purely rational/unemotional viewpoint it is perfectly reasonable to be for both banning of guns and legalisation of (at least some) drugs on the grounds of safety.

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09-02-2019 , 02:11 PM

#358

suzzer99

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Legal drugs are less likely to be spiked with deadly amounts of fentanyl - or other random crap.

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09-02-2019 , 02:29 PM

#359

microbet

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Originally Posted by Willd

Yeah, if gun control had no effect or were counterproductive I'd be 100% against it without reservation.

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09-02-2019 , 02:48 PM

#360

itshotinvegas

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Originally Posted by Willd

I do not think it's a coincidence that tobacco and alcohol are the the top two most abused drugs, and I do not think it's unreasonable to expect incidences of OD to increase, with less restrictions on illegal drugs, especially poppy based drugs (synthetic, or otherwise).

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Originally Posted by microbet

Yeah, if gun control had no effect or were counterproductive I'd be 100% against it without reservation.

Well, I'm of the belief anything outside of outright banning will not have any effect (on mass shootings).

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09-02-2019 , 03:07 PM

#361

Victor

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Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

Why do you believe that in the face of countries actually decriminalizing opiods and seeing a reduction in overdoses?

Here's a random article but therea tons of info about Portugal's method.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...orld-copied-it

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09-02-2019 , 03:28 PM

#362

microbet

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Originally Posted by itshotinvegas

Well, I'm of the belief anything outside of outright banning will not have any effect (on mass shootings).

I think what data there is suggests that you're wrong and that banning assault weapons, limiting magazine capacity, background checks and waiting periods are all effective *especially* against mass shootings. I think those things are less effective against other kinds of gun violence.

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09-02-2019 , 03:30 PM

#363

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It's not a coincidence that tobacco and alcohol are the two most abused drugs, but cause and effect goes the other way. They are legal because they are so popular. They tried to ban alcohol and that extremely obviously didn't work. Tobacco is becoming less popular because of social reasons, but try banning it and see what happens. Addicts would go ****ing nuts.

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09-02-2019 , 03:31 PM

#364

suzzer99

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Originally Posted by microbet

Haven't been many mass shootings with fully automatic machine guns. Seems like heavy regulation is working there.

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09-02-2019 , 04:26 PM

#365

itshotinvegas

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Originally Posted by suzzer99

Haven't been many mass shootings with fully automatic machine guns. Seems like heavy regulation is working there.

There is not between 300 and 400 million of them.

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09-02-2019 , 04:28 PM

#366

itshotinvegas

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Originally Posted by Victor

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Originally Posted by microbet

Say what you will about big pharma's deception about pills, access is correleated with abuse.

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09-02-2019 , 09:52 PM

#367

Victor

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this is truly an amazing run of posts from you.

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09-02-2019 , 11:02 PM

#368

suzzer99

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The side of science, logic and reason speaks.

When you liberals calm down from your emotional hysteria you'll see this is correct.

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09-03-2019 , 10:47 AM

#369

Money2Burn

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Originally Posted by carlo

"There is one mind common to all individual men. Every man is an inlet to the same and to all of the same. He that is once admitted to the right of reason is made a freeman of the whole estate. What Plato has thought, he may think; what a saint has felt, he may feel; what at any time has befallen any man, he can understand. Who hath access to this universal mind is a party to all that is or can be done, for this is the only and sovereign agent."
—Ralph Waldo Emerson

Heraclitus: "thought is common to all".

It is telling that Hume is quoted, that very being who stated there cannot be any truth, all is convention, and produced the play book for the skeptical chemist. lol

Hume was appropriate to quote. I believe there is fairly good evidence that his description is more accurate portrayal of how we think and “reason” and ultimately what drives our decisions. I think modern neuroscience and CBT support the idea that we and our conscious thoughts are subservient in a sense to processes running subconsciously in our minds.

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09-03-2019 , 11:54 AM

#370

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Originally Posted by Money2Burn

The "logic and reason" crowd likes to imagine that it's the position of science and the enlightenment, but it's really the pre-scientific position of Plato and the like. The fact that it's been demonstrated that emotion is a literally essential component of decision making should not get in the way of a philosophical position. Logic and reason predate the Enlightenment, science and the leap forward that it brought. What was new (for the academic community) was empiricism.

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09-03-2019 , 02:56 PM

#371

itshotinvegas

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Originally Posted by microbet

Should you embrace and enable the emotional part of thought when dealing with critical issues, is the issue, not whether or not human emotions are part of reasoning. The single best thing you can say to someone who is upset is, "I understand", not "I agree because x, or I disagree because x, or "we should do x", or "we should not do x".

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09-03-2019 , 04:35 PM

#372

pvn

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Originally Posted by suzzer99

100% this. The 2nd Amendment is not absolute. If we can regulate full autos then we can regulate semiautos as well.

All we need is the political will, and the momentum is moving our way. Semi automatic rifles will be effectively banned within 5 years. You can keep your bolt action rifles.

Once that's done we'll move to the real danger - handguns.

We're gonna get your guns.

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09-03-2019 , 04:44 PM

#373

snowman

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Money2Burn

Everyone bases their arguments on emotions. Our emotions are what drives us. You are no different, nor are any of the people who are obsessed with the 2nd amendment and keeping their guns in the face of reasonable compelling evidence that their guns don’t make them more safe.

the problem is there has yet to be any reasonable compelling evidence.

just emotional rambling of the stoned;
Yea man let me smoke my weed , break into your house to steal and pay for it,
get behind the wheel and run down your kid
but FU you can't have a gun you might shoot me or my brother whilst we're robbing you.

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09-03-2019 , 04:55 PM

#374

suzzer99

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Originally Posted by pvn

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They loved hyperbole. Events were “the most extraordinary spectacles” that had “ever challenged the notice of the civilized world,” “too alarming” and threatened “to destroy all that is valuable and beautiful in the institutions of our country.” All over, they saw slippery slopes: Objecting to the extension of slavery into new territories, Lincoln’s longtime position, would lead inexorably to miscegenation.

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09-03-2019 , 04:56 PM

#375

suzzer99

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Originally Posted by snowman

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“Never believe that gun nuts are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. Gun nuts have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

- (paraphrasing) Jean Paul-Sartre

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