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Free Speech (taken from Trans thread) Free Speech (taken from Trans thread)

06-06-2022 , 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uke_master
You thinking I'm a far left of Che Guevara fringe zealot says quite a bit more about you than it does about me, frankly.
Yes. That I must be it. (and not that you're clearly a far leftist fringe zealot in a blindingly obvious sense).
My bad.
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06-06-2022 , 06:52 PM
itt People willingly living in countries with soc. med aka literal communism™ calling Americans commies lol You could probably be putting your time to better use trying to escape to freedom instead of dicking around on the internet.

You don't need to go straight to the big leagues first--you can test it out in the minors/midwest nice and far away from the front lines

Last edited by wet work; 06-06-2022 at 06:59 PM.
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06-06-2022 , 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uke_master
Or, just maybe, the endless stream of worst-possible-examples-of-academia that certain circles like to propagate on social media for political reasons isn't actually representative of what it is like to work in academia most of the time. ....
Sure I hear the exact same thing from the right wing fringe too. What the media is pushing about us is actually representative. Don't worry, let us elect Trump again and you will see how wrong they are.
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06-06-2022 , 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 south
I've never met a real life Marxist in my life
Consider yourself fortunate.
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06-06-2022 , 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Trolly McTrollson
Somehow Marxism never once got mentioned when I was in college.
Is it too late to demand a refund from your college?

I graduated from college in 1982. Marxism was still an oft-discussed topic then. My philosophy department actually had a class called Marx and Marxism, which I believe was usually taught by my graduate advisor at the time.
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06-06-2022 , 09:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1
Its hard for a post modernist to a modernist.

There is nothing more modernist than classical marxism.
+1

Quote:
Post modernists can be neo marxists to some degree, but that phrase/definition is near useless without knowing details.
I agree with this, too.
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06-06-2022 , 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by master3004
Attempting to lessen overdose deaths is the end of civilization?
No.
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06-06-2022 , 09:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrazor
Again, I don't disagree but these people are not very bright and many will have no problem simultaneously identifying as a Marxist and post modernist without necessarily understanding the contradictions between these positions.
+1

On a more macro-level, "smart people" often denounce belief in God as being "irrational" (or even "delusional") , while not recognizing that rationality itself requires the existence of God.

Join us in RGT for more details.

/shameless plug

Last edited by lagtight; 06-06-2022 at 09:24 PM.
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06-06-2022 , 09:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by washoe
cosmopolitan is just a ****** magazine for women. they are trying to provocate and sell. and they are all women.
at least the readerbase is.

This is a silly topic as it is clear as daylight that these elephants are not healthy. I had a friend that looked like that, was a poker pro, complete donk, but nerd donk. he wouldn't just eat one burger he has to eat a ton at once and then it takes him only 5 seconds to inhale that stuff. same with soda. I figured it out what he had. it was a compulsive disorder. completely ******ed. he couldn't even get pass a sidewalk curb, it was too much of an obstacle for him. but he could play poker.

And he said this obesity is socially handicapping him, nobody wants to hang out with him because he is such an elephant. of course I thought. its terrible. imagine being that big you are always farting and digesting And you can't move. I tried to bring him to my other friends in a bar one time. My one friend complained that he doesn't fit in. that was true unfortunately he couldn't even turn in the bar it was packed. and then he would behave super awkwardly.

A true disaster. It's a disease that you can't put on a magazine cover. it's deadly. but this is the bs we have to deal with. again and again and again.

And then they are banning us when we are the voice of reasoning. total bs.
Who exactly is banning you? And what exactly are you banned from?
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06-06-2022 , 09:28 PM
So a ton of this sort of stuff was discussed in the original crt thread-- but re: Marxism and "the left"-- i.e. what passes for the left today-- the actual Marxists hold much of it in disdain as Marxists focus on class and the "new left" focuses on identity--there can be some debate about how much in opposition these two can be and reams have been written on it- but one shouldn't let the race-mongering-apologists fool you as there is very much a dichotomy between class and identity.

And it's the focus on class that defines the actual left. The right (the actual right) has zero problems with a identity based politics as it serves their interests (c.f. anything by Walter Benn Michaels).
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06-06-2022 , 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
So a ton of this sort of stuff was discussed in the original crt thread-- but re: Marxism and "the left"-- i.e. what passes for the left today-- the actual Marxists hold much of it in disdain as Marxists focus on class and the "new left" focuses on identity--there can be some debate about how much in opposition these two can be and reams have been written on it- but one shouldn't let the race-mongering-apologists fool you as there is very much a dichotomy between class and identity.

And it's the focus on class that defines the actual left. The right (the actual right) has zero problems with a identity based politics as it serves their interests (c.f. anything by Walter Benn Michaels).
Hitler's politics was certainly identity-based.

There is probably no benign version of so-called identity-politics.
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06-06-2022 , 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
Is it too late to demand a refund from your college?

I graduated from college in 1982. Marxism was still an oft-discussed topic then. My philosophy department actually had a class called Marx and Marxism, which I believe was usually taught by my graduate advisor at the time.
It's part of a very worrying change that does reflect the move to the right and a growing intolerence. Healthy politics includes lots of socialist of varying forms, anarchists etc etc. The intolerence is reflected in a change from 'I think marxism is bad/misguided' to marxists are unacceptable.

But I hope and expect that philosophy/politcal departments still teach Marx. He is one of the greats.
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06-06-2022 , 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagtight
Consider yourself fortunate.
Why? I'd love to have a conversation with a real Marxist.
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06-07-2022 , 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
So a ton of this sort of stuff was discussed in the original crt thread-- but re: Marxism and "the left"-- i.e. what passes for the left today-- the actual Marxists hold much of it in disdain as Marxists focus on class and the "new left" focuses on identity--there can be some debate about how much in opposition these two can be and reams have been written on it- but one shouldn't let the race-mongering-apologists fool you as there is very much a dichotomy between class and identity.
The main reason for this is the working class have universally rejected Marxism. Marxists just hate the rich and don't care much which group they mobilise to try and "smash the patriarchy" or w/e.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
It's part of a very worrying change that does reflect the move to the right and a growing intolerence. Healthy politics includes lots of socialist of varying forms, anarchists etc etc. The intolerence is reflected in a change from 'I think marxism is bad/misguided' to marxists are unacceptable.

But I hope and expect that philosophy/politcal departments still teach Marx. He is one of the greats.
Certainly Marx should be taught, so should CRT, fascism or literally any idea that anyone might find objectionable. Burying ideas only allows them to fester.
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06-07-2022 , 03:15 AM
Ok but fascism isn't comparable to Marxism as a philosophy or political analysis

And i dont think, to make a crude example, people arguing for the masses owing the means of production can be compared to people arguing for a master race
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06-07-2022 , 03:51 AM
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Capital is not a thing but a relationship between men mediated through things.
One of the few quotes by thinkers I will never forget, or forget the moment I read it.

It was revelatory to my young mind. I dont see how you contradict that statement.

The extension of that argument, of how men/women objectify there relations to make them appear external/natural and not of there own making, is off course again something that is hard to contradict.

Written in the 1860s.

That is the thing with Marx, imagine how the nature v nurture debate is going in the 1860s, nature ahead by infinity+1 furlongs, then this guy pops up and argues its all nurture.

That "man is man made."

He is successful enough with these arguments that we are still talking about him in 160 years later.

Of course his thinking should be taught in all Universities, along with the actual relevant critiques and not the fat bloke in pub ones.

The way to think about Marx, is that if he worked in the food industry, he would be an elite restaurant critic, but an absolute woat chef.

Last edited by O.A.F.K.1.1; 06-07-2022 at 04:04 AM.
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06-07-2022 , 05:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.A.F.K.1.1
One of the few quotes by thinkers I will never forget, or forget the moment I read it.

It was revelatory to my young mind. I dont see how you contradict that statement.

The extension of that argument, of how men/women objectify there relations to make them appear external/natural and not of there own making, is off course again something that is hard to contradict.

Written in the 1860s.

That is the thing with Marx, imagine how the nature v nurture debate is going in the 1860s, nature ahead by infinity+1 furlongs, then this guy pops up and argues its all nurture.

That "man is man made."

He is successful enough with these arguments that we are still talking about him in 160 years later.

Of course his thinking should be taught in all Universities, along with the actual relevant critiques and not the fat bloke in pub ones.

The way to think about Marx, is that if he worked in the food industry, he would be an elite restaurant critic, but an absolute woat chef.
I like the driection of that analogy but with the addition of necessity for the critic and the non-existence of any great chefs
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06-07-2022 , 05:48 AM
Well if you are a full blown Marxist then you dont actually need to do any cooking, just be patient and one day your meal that literally cant be any more delicious will just arrive cooked by 10 star Michelin starred Chef Monsieur Le Resolution of conflict in a higher unity.
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06-07-2022 , 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by uke_master
Or, just maybe, the endless stream of worst-possible-examples-of-academia that certain circles like to propagate on social media for political reasons isn't actually representative of what it is like to work in academia most of the time.

I'll give a concrete example. The most "woke" thing I'm doing this summer is my university is organizing a summer camp for highschool girls to get them excited for STEM and I'm giving a workshop on some cool math. You know what the hardest part it? Apathy and getting enough faculty volunteers. But that's it, that is sort of the high water mark for far left ideological academia-gone-wild nonsense being propagated, a little volunteering to get girls interested in math. This is, in my experience, pretty innocuous stuff almost nobody actually disagrees with is the 99%. Now I don't claim to be totally representative (faculties of science are perhaps less "woke" than other faculties), but I also don't believe the typical academia-gone-crazy narratives are representative either.
And it’s important to remember that nobody in positions of power actually believe the narrative either. The notable anti woke crusaders on TV and in politics went to the same Marxist indoctrination academics did/teach at and pull every string they can to make sure their kids attend as well. They just publicly bash them in front of working class rubes who don’t have any idea what these places are actually like.
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06-07-2022 , 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett
Why? I'd love to have a conversation with a real Marxist.
@Bobo meet @uke.

You're welcome.

Spoiler:
I kid.

Spoiler:
But not really

Spoiler:
OK maybe just a little


Spoiler:
But not really



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06-07-2022 , 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrazor
The main reason for this is the working class have universally rejected Marxism. Marxists just hate the rich and don't care much which group they mobilise to try and "smash the patriarchy" or w/e.



Certainly Marx should be taught, so should CRT, fascism or literally any idea that anyone might find objectionable. Burying ideas only allows them to fester.
...Certainly Marx should be taught, so should CRT, fascism or literally any idea that anyone might find objectionable. Burying ideas only allows them to fester (or be romanticized).

Added to your last point as I think that is also relevant.
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06-07-2022 , 09:28 AM
The notion that the working class is anti-Marxist but the ruling class is pro-Marxist seems a bit out of joint.
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06-07-2022 , 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
It's part of a very worrying change that does reflect the move to the right and a growing intolerence. Healthy politics includes lots of socialist of varying forms, anarchists etc etc. The intolerence is reflected in a change from 'I think marxism is bad/misguided' to marxists are unacceptable.

But I hope and expect that philosophy/politcal departments still teach Marx. He is one of the greats.
The main reason (imo) that Marxism isn't taught as much is that it is no longer a major player in governments throughout the world.

A few years after the collapse of the old Soviet Union, Dennis Prager more than once observed, Marxism is only still alive-and-well in Cuba and in universities.
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06-07-2022 , 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo Fett
Why? I'd love to have a conversation with a real Marxist.
Actually, I had a good friend who was at least a neo-Marxist. He was a brilliant man who had published academic articles both on Postmodernism and on Marxism. He was also one of the kindest and most generous men I have ever had the pleasure of knowing.

Sometimes my penchant for sarcasm gets the better of me.
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06-07-2022 , 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chezlaw
Ok but fascism isn't comparable to Marxism as a philosophy or political analysis

And i dont think, to make a crude example, people arguing for the masses owing the means of production can be compared to people arguing for a master race
+1
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