The schools would feed them 3 free meals a day, and between Medicaid and Badgercare, the health insurance coverage is much better than the rest of us plebs in the middle class have.

There's a big shortage of substitutes. If you have a college degree, feel free to apply to your closest failing district and spend a few days seeing how much of that free food gets thrown away and how surprisingly strong and healthy the 5th graders constantly fighting in the classrooms are.

You'll be compensated for your time, albeit not very well. MPS subs are paid about $20/hr.

Religion being left out of schools was originally pushed for by the religious. There are so many slightly different beliefs that are hard to rectify. And learning about early say christianity where we have 0 contemporaneous written accounts of supposed miracles makes it harder not easier to believe. Basically the exact opposite of math, science, history etc.

lol, Ins0 still furious that kids are getting school lunches.

You get the healthcare you vote for.

You get the social assistance you vote for to.

And you're on here every day complaining about it. It seems you don't vote very well.

Conservatives make Baby Jesus sad.

Remember how shitty school lunches were? Ins0 thinks they’re too opulent for poor children.

This line of dunking doesn't even make sense.

Ignoring the fact that I made no objections to free lunch, everyone gets the same food whether you pay for it or not.

You were complaining about the 'excessive' cost of education and blaming socialism.

Free lunches are part of that socialistic evil you were going on about, no ?

We have food programs in our schools, but it tends to be breakfast and lunch available to those who need it, so I believe it's in the low millions and is primarily funded by donation and targeted government funding - but still part of the overall budget. I'd be a little surprised if every student is getting three meals paid for every day there, but if that were the case it could get into the 9 figure range and explain part of the high funding level, but not all of it.

Ouch. Really makes me wonder again where all the money goes. I assume much of the cost comes from a hollowing out of students that have more support. IE families who have the means for transportation and/or additional funding take their kids to other schools, while the most vulnerable kids are stuck going to the neighborhood school that gradually finds itself with more and more kids that don't have the same level of support on the home front. Of course they will need more support in school, which means more money. And it would be something of a vicious circle, as those schools get abandoned by anyone who can afford to do so. And as income disparity grows in the US, so does this problem - when larger portions of a school district are in poverty, even more support is needed.

What came first, the poverty or the complete disregard for authority and disdain for education?

The support that most of the kids need is for the adults in charge to have the intestinal fortitude to stand up to the minority of students/parents who produce a vast majority of the chaos. Get these poison pills out of the general classrooms.

If I take a pint of piss and mix it in with a gallon of water, now I just have 1.125 gallons of pisswater. Deal with the problem at hand, don't spread it.

At this point I'm not very inclined to argue with anyone about the source of these problems in certain districts, but I do want to know why the schools are somehow tasked with solving them. It's not working, and you're destroying the opportunity for entire generations of children to get a decent education because a small number of people can't behave themselves.

What happened to black lives mattering? Only the shitty ones?

Clearly poverty came first.

Education is a key to escaping poverty. And the education process is severely compromised when there are a small minority of students greatly impeding that process for students who have parents who want their kids to escape poverty.

grew up in the berkshires, it's the resort for wealthy people from boston/nyc, full of gilded age mansions, bed and breakfasts, symphony orchestras, museums, and antique dealerships

over half the homes are weekend/summer homes, the other half are majority the people who do their landscaping

i was one of only a small handful of people at the school who's parents had a degree

everyone thought i was rich af despite that my parents were teachers

when i went to college, got endlessly poked fun at for doing such a stupid and wasteful thing

"only an idiot would waste money on college rickroll" etc etc was something i'd hear endlessly from fellow locals

most fights and arguments were over who's dad was better at rebuilding truck engines etc etc, i was regularly called a pussy because i paid a gas station $20 to change the oil in my car



not all these people were poor, many of them have their last names on the fronts of fairly large business establishments, driving around my old town i see series of familiar surnames on various businesses throughout

but the uneducated/poor have ways of coping and compensating for their situation that becomes part of their culture, the genesis of "real men change their own oil" was a coping factor to dance around the fact they are doing it themselves because they are broke, but now now, even though they may be financially off well enough to the point where they could easily afford to now have someone else change their oil, they still often change it themselves anyway out of fear of not being a real man, failing to recognize that whether or not you change your own oil doesn't impact your manhood, it was just what the poors said to ignore being poor

in fact, if you really think about it, most of blue collar culture is rooted in financial constructs and most of their disdain and periodic barbs thrown at the "yuppies" is more of the same, you can give a poor free usage of a mechanic and he'll still change his own oil for fear of looking like a bish, but if you gave him a car that never needed an oil change and they were purely optional he'd never change it for the lols - a lot of blue collar culture is nonsensical because it's rooted as a coping mechanism

most of anti-education sentiments stems from this culture of poverty, it's a big reason why i don't really see much point in trying to help out poor beyond what's already available, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink

Sure. Nonetheless, everyone knows family net worth is positively correlated with educational outcomes. If you're poor, your public school is likely worse than if you're not. The poor make up a tiny percentage of the student body at the best universities and colleges. Your family may not have been able to afford the private schools, tutors, and extracurriculars that help admission chances or afford the schools even if you get admitted. The mental health of the student and their family are likely to be worse if poor, which hurts all outcomes. Parents may be unavailable due to longer working hours or divorce/addiction/incarceration/untreated or under-treated health problems. The odds are significantly stacked against you if you're poor even if you're a well-behaved student. The key is not only better and more equitable education but better support systems to keep people out of poverty in the first place. Universal health care, treating drug-abuse as a mental health issue instead of a criminal issue, better public transportation, zoning laws, etc etc. Blaming the misbehaving students and their parents isn't going to stop new ones from being created, which should be the goal.

Holy condescension, Batman!

With friends like you on their side, who needs enemies?

Pack it in, boys. We're poor, there's nothing more we can do. Just sit here and wait to be shot by a cop or an unstable neighbor. No, Johnny, you don't have to go to school today. Nothing matters until UBI and MFA are implemented.

Ins0 is so very close to figuring how first-world societies function.

Very nice straw man. Acknowledging that being dealt a hand from the bottom of a range (purely by luck) makes it harder to win with the current rules is not condescension, lol. You're going to need to be a better player (also luck) than those who got dealt (again, purely by luck) a premium hand to have a comparable outcome. I'm advocating changing the rules so that your luck in parents doesn't dictate your outcomes as much as it does now.

I'd settle for not actively flipping the table while your peers are trying to play normally. Or, if that's asking too much for some people, that we put all the table-flippers in a room of their own.

Help me cross the finish line, Professor Trolly.

Schools can't solve poverty. That's not their job. Schools exist to educate, and if certain teachers spend 90% of their day cosplaying a prison guard, then no learning can take place. It's really quite simple.

I'm 100% cool with literally leaving those children behind if it means providing a safe and effective environment for everyone else.

Whether you flip tables or not is down to luck, it's condescending to believe otherwise.

This is pretty gross tbh. You are happy to doom children who are in this position by no fault of their own to failure, and likely the generations that come after them, as if there were nothing to be done to help them. I wonder how their parents got into this situation in the first place...

"We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!"

you can choose to view things however you wish but you won't be able to solve it while ignoring cultural factors, only difference of me and those i grew up surrounded by was the education level of my parents and in fact many of them made far more money than my parents did but they glamorized white collar professions and had very incorrect assumptions because they weren't working primarily with their hands like most of my friends parents were doing then clearly my parents must have been making bank - all this despite how infamously underpaid teachers are

it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if in my childhood i spent more time hanging out in trailers, yards full of rusting cars, and people who say they are going to the job site rather than the office than most of the thread combined - i'm not being condescending, i have no issue with blue collar people, i actually take quite a lot of pride in the manual labor jobs i worked as a kid and feel it's definitely helped give me some good character - but i still firmly believe that most people "trying to solve poverty" have never really spent any time with poor people and fundamentally do not understand the culutral divide - they just assume they do because they've seen a few episodes of Roseanne

people fail to understand that even if we made eduation free (which i fully believe we should) only a small handful of these people who didn't go to college but rather took an apprenticeship would then have gone to college - the cost of education was never really a factor in their genuine belief that college was for yuppies

also, we will always need people to do these jobs - if everyone went to college we'd have people with advanced degrees pumping gas and washing dishes, i'm not against that concept, i think we'd have a much healthier society if the general education level rose to that extent - but making college universal is not going to magically make blue collar careers disapear and become redundant - it doesn't magically make us into a post-scarcity star trek society

Interesting that you seem willing to doom 100% of the children in these districts, but call me out for advocating that we excise just the 10-15% who can't be reasoned with.

Society isn’t going to be comfortable and livable for you if your neighbors don’t have things like basic healthcare, food, a living wage, etc. I know it ****ing sucks that your tax money goes toward buying things like school lunches, but them’s the breaks. You don’t get to advocate for a dysfunctional society and then whine that people keep robbing your apartment.

No, what you said in your first post was spot on. These people who keep saying that only society can save the poor people are the ones who are being condescending.

You cannot save people from themselves.