The party of small government strikes again.

Maybe this is all part of his plan. Send the Californians back to California.

He's on that 5th level.

Exactly.

And this is on top of all the anti-CRT nonsense. Sadly, a lot of people are getting are getting fooled into being outraged about things they have little knowledge of. This is becoming more common with so many issues, but education is one of the worst. It seems that people think because they went to school, and especially if they have kids that do, that they are then experts on education.

Asking what it is like to live in Texas or Florida is sort of like asking what it is like to live in the United States. The attitudes of communities in both states vary enormously depending on where you are.

Especially California. There are some extremely conservative counties here in Cali.

The county I was living in at the time of the special election for governor here several months ago (Butte County) actually had more votes for Mr. Elder than Gov. Newsom. And the county's largest town (Chico) is home to a state university.

Of course. But you're stuck with the same state government interfering in education, no matter what community you live in. My point wasn't to suggest that the attitude is detrimental to education in every community in those states, but that those particular state governments seem hell-bent on ****ing up their education systems to promote their culture wars.

I understand. I wasn't disputing the pernicious impact of state government on education in those state.

If you want to be depressed listen to Part 1&2 of The School Board Wars, in 'The Daily' Podcast from Nov last year.

GOP money has found by coincidence that the School infrastructure, if you can split it along partisan lines becomes a great thing to use upstream for all grass roots movements at various levels of politics.

You have school boards now lamenting that Board meetings have nothing to with student needs and only end up being partisan culture war battles.

this is going to get a whole bunch worse, before it gets better.

Honestly our education system really blows . I just remember immigrating to this country at age 12 and being way ahead of everyone in math and geography . Me and the translator that helped in the state math test were the only people that passed it on my first day in class with 0 English

Another ****ed up element in our education system is state testing, not every 8 year old is good at taking a test

On a side note , My wife is a teacher and I know she doesn’t do it for the money . Every person that became a teacher just to have a job was miserable and quit within one year
She just loves her job and loves to make a difference. Do I think teachers are underpaid ? For sure
Also in the last 2-3 years with pandemic and having to adapt to new curriculums and constantly covering for staffing shortages , I think teachers should have gotten some of that pandemic scam money

And we shouldn't assume it couldn't come here; some of the same sort of voices pop up from time to time. But the key difference in Canada so far is that mainstream politicians aren't getting involved in that nonsense, and I'm hopeful that will remain the case.

No Scam-money Left Behind!

What can you specifically identify as a major difference in how things were done?

I can’t say for sure if this was the only reason , my mom being a teacher helped but growing up there and from what I remember , I know that me and my friends (even the ones with parents that didn’t know how to read ) feared being hit with a stick or smacked by a teacher or our parents if we failed a test or a quiz or didn’t behave in class .
As far as curriculums and teachers go , my mom was a teacher and the teachers were just so much more empowered and had a much easier work schedule then the teachers here . From what I recall the work day started at 8:30 am and ended at 2:30 am and they got a 30 minute mandatory break for lunch n tea

At My wife’s school she gets in at 7 45 am and finishes at 4pm . Lunch break is around noon which she rarely utilizes because there’s always something

Yeah, that'll do it.

Actions don't have consequences here in America, as you likely figured out along the way.

To the point about teacher effort: that just harkens back to the absolute shitshow that is our classroom environment. When the children are unmotivated to cooperate in their own education, the job of a teacher gets much harder. They're a warden and babysitter first, an educator second.

My own wife would often have to eat her lunch in her classroom or not at all, because there would be 4 or 5 kids held there due to morning behavior issues and they were not allowed to go down with everyone else.

We've got a severe teacher shortage around here at the moment, and I shudder to think about how many kids are being shoved through the system now. It was bad before, but now with remote learning, they don't even have to pretend to be participating. This week is WI Forward Exam week, and the numbers are going to be very interesting.

Ha yeah state test scores should certainly be interesting

This is only the beginning of something I mentioned up thread that is only going to have a much worse and pervasive effect on schools and teaching in the USA.

The right is super focused on taking over School Boards and using them as launch pads for local organizing and primaries up the food chain and the left has no equal zeal to counter it as School Board type positions have never been that political or important. If the left does not find the energy to counter this, I think it forebodes some really bad times coming.



Very sad times.

Glad to see this. Hope it continues. Public Schools are a mess, but even a small purge of members of the Leftist Mob of Pea-Brains is encouraging to me.

That you're glad to see people using culture wars to fire people up over non-existent problems for political gain is rather sad.

Many times, I've seen you lambaste public education. While I agree the US system is quite a mess (and getting worse with this culture war nonsense), from what I've seen you post, I'm inclined to think your ideal education system would be even worse. But I don't think it's fair of me to draw that conclusion without truly understanding what your ideal is. So, if you're in charge of the US public education system for the next 20 years, with complete power to make any changes, what would you do to fix US K-12 education?

Maybe I'm quibbling here, but "fired" is an odd way way to describe an incumbent who loses an election. I didn't personally read any headlines the day after the 2020 Presidential Election that read, "Trump Fired as President". Did you?

In a word: vouchers!

Parents should be in control of their children's education just as they should be in control of their children's diet, church attendance (or non-attendance) and recreation activities, etc.

While every system has flaws, I think a robust voucher program would be "less worser" than the status quo.

Parents can send their kids to religious schools on their own dime, not mine.

I have some unfortunate news for you, Bubble_Balls. There are plenty of religious schools already included in the choice program. It's just that current vouchers are very limited in number, presumably because the public school administrators know that it would be a mad rush for the exit if they opened it up.

Before joining the union and heading to MPS proper, my wife taught for a number of years in a K-8 Christian school in Milwaukee's inner city, and according to their most recent DPI report card, 98% of the student population (535 kids) are attending with choice vouchers from MPS. A total of 94.8% are economically disadvantaged.

Sitting through chapel every Wednesday morning isn't going to turn otherwise non-religious students into anti-abortion zealots of whatever you're afraid of. There was still plenty of dysfunction to go around but they scored a 75/100 overall, compared to the MPS school down the street my wife moved to for better pay and benefits, which scored a 36/100 and ultimately led to her abandoning the classroom altogether.

The best argument against full on vouchers is also the best argument for it, imo. Only the kids in the worst situations will be left behind at the public schools, and their outcomes are unlikely to improve. But at least they won't be able to continue poisoning the rest of the population. Good luck staffing those pre-prison schools, though.

What they are seeing now, in these reformed Boards is that the school board agenda's that are being taken over by these more activist right leaning folks, cannot even get on the agenda for discussion any of the real issues plaguing the schools such as lack of supplies, and other core issues. I listened to a podcast that went through the agendas which now almost entirely are culture war facing. School Boards sit and argue over CRT and other such issues and focus on ways to ban and prevent it and no amount of 'that is not even taught here' matters, as the new Board Members just want to be seen by their supporters as 'Protecting the Children', and thus want these new school board guidelines implemented.

It is the same playbook the GOP is using on the National stage. Purge actual agenda items that would help the citizens and country (infrastructure, Healthcare, etc) including GOP voters, because the GOP has zero desire to see any gov't money actually helping citizens and instead distract the voters by focusing them and enraging them over, culture war issues.

It is enormously effective and the GOP is way out front here on this in terms of invigorating their base to go after these type of local seats, that historically got to largely escape these type of partisan fights and where Republicans and Democrats on school boards could easily vote together on issues as they typically were not considered partisan issues.

I think by the time the Dem base can wake up and be invigorated enough to really mobilize and fight back at these lower levels, the damage will already be done. Just as the GOP control of the State and City legislatures is now paying massive dividends as they change across the country, who will control vote counts and declare winners. Just as the GOP took control of the way judges are appointed and sent up the food chain to a point now where they have near total control of that process for GOP judges and regardless of merit, if you do not tick the correct 'culture war' boxes you will not move forward.


The GOP is, IMO, just far more focused on winning this war, and is not going to let falling numbers of support stop them. I think America is going to get so much worse, in every area, (racial rights, LGBTQ+ rights, religious freedoms, Social spending, Infrastructure spending) before it gets better as you see from the School Board, to the city legislature, to the State to the Federal GOv't all taken over and Back stopped by a SC court also taken over, and as minority rule is imposed in draconian fashion on the majority.

I hate to be pessimistic but I think the left side of the country has already largely lost this battle and those results will be coming in over the next decade. The only question remaining is how long will it be before the Dems and left can turn it back?

I'm aware. I don't like it and I don't want more of it. I'm not afraid of them becoming zealots, I don't want to fund anyone being taught fairy tales as if they are fact, regardless of the outcome.

****'em is a pretty terrible argument imo, as if nothing could be done to help them. You could instead properly fund schools as well as other social programs so that the outcomes of all children improved.

So just to be clear here...

The left should counter right wing agitators taking over school board meetings. This will not lead to an increase in right wingers doing more outrageous things.

The left SHOULDNT counter right wing agitators who claim cancel culture is a thing or that trans kids shouldn't be allowed in normal society. This will lead to an increase in right wingers doing more outrageous things.


Story checks out

It's not a money problem. MPS is already spending twice as much per student as many other significantly better-performing neighboring districts. I'm sure the same is true for other American big cities with horrendous public school outcomes.

Hell, even in the example of the Christian academy I mentioned, those choice vouchers are generally only good for about half of the MPS per-pupil average. MPS keeps the rest to fund their administration. Both schools pull from the same overall demographic, but the choice school kids have parents who cared enough to fill out some paperwork to get their kids out of the public school, and there are real consequences for misbehavior on the part of the student. They can lose their spot in the program and end up banished back to MPS.

What we should do is give responsible parents the tools to have some control over the quality of their child's education, and maybe that means letting the Jesus crowd take a crack at it.

Or go with my first plan, which is military-style boarding schools for the known problem children, starting in 2nd grade. You can have your kid back for 3 weeks in the summer and come visit for an hour or two on weekends. If you don't want to raise a child you brought into the world, let Big Brother do it. For all intents and purposes, those kids have already been abandoned by their parents anyway. At least this way they'll be supervised instead of roaming the streets.