Why did you reply with this rather than answering my question to you about USPS?

https://jacobin.com/2022/07/biden-ma...imate-spending


https://www.currentaffairs.org/2022/...a-climate-bill

this was a giveaway to the fossil fuel companies

dont be blinded by the state propaganda apparatus of the greatest nation of all time.

i am bumping this as it is so indicative and damning of how Dem apologists in society and on this forum work and how they will always find a way to excuse or backwards rationalize Dem failings to do what they say, and to convince themselves there was no good option for the Dems to avail themselves of.


Biden has had 2 years to hit the ground running re the firing of DeJoy and to ensure his replacements where unwaveringly on the side of getting rid of him and turning back the damage he had done, while building in new protections that would be challenging to undue by the next administration.

What we have seen is the structure of the USPS Board can make it challenging for any POTUS to quickly make changes and that is by design. To ensure some continuity and slow change. And the way Trump and the GOP took advantage was by putting in place hard liners who would support DeJoy and the dismantling of USPS.

If Biden and the Dem's were serious about protecting USPS, they would do the same, and put in many hard liners who are very pro 'building' USPS so that even with a switch to a GOP admin it would take a lot of time before they could start reversing things.

INSTEAD Biden puts in people who have a history of being rather supportive of reform and who will not move quickly (if at all to remove Dejoy) but who will slow the changes to get it off the front page of the news generally.

Should we expect Biden's Board to aggressively try to undue what DeJoy has done and rebuild USPS? I doubt anyone wants that best.

At best, the safe bet is more of a holding action while Biden is in power. Just enough to keep the USPS mostly out of the news, but then when a GOP POTUS takes over not only is Dejoy, likely still there and knowing exactly what he wants to do to FINISH the job of gutting the USPS, but the new POTUS finds Biden board members he can work with, who are not going to be obstructionist.

I have said it before that Dems have largely the same donor base so despite the OUTRAGE they show when out of power to gain votes, the most you will usually get is a 'hold the line' effort to wherever Trump or the GOP shifted the line to the right. That then becomes the new centre ground the Dems defend but with no real shift BACK to the left. And then the next GOP admin shifts it again to the right, and so on, and so on.

That appears to be exactly what is happening with USPS and Dejoy (and i hope I am wrong) and the Board Biden has put in place.

I expect if the GOP wins the POTUS in 2024 Dejoy will complete the dismantling and sale of USPS (likely to his own company as part of a consortium) and the Dem's will register their outrage and why people need to 'vote for Dem's in the next election', all the while when they had power (just as with RvW) they did not do what they had the power to do to protect it.

And i expect the usual suspects to argue versions of 'it was not Biden's job to know what positions the Board members he nominated would take', and 'those Board members have different considerations', etc, as the Dem defense gaslighting forces amp up their usual rhetoric.

Translation: You're bumping this because no Dem apologists in this forum said anything to excuse anything the first time you posted.

Personally, I don't see the Post Office as a "left or right" issue. All I know is that everything about the USPS has been pretty bad for my entire adult life, so I'd be happy to try whatever changes either party tries to make. The last thing I want to do is to "protect" the USPS.

The Dem apologists only speak on things like this once the Dem's face blame.

Meaning if a GOP Potus comes in next and DeJoy ramps up his efforts and completes the destruction and sale of the USPS and the Dem's are being blamed for not doing what they could, when they had power to protect it, people like you will appear and claim 'it was not up to Biden to try to know how this Board picks would vote or what they would support', 'those Board picks just have different considerations'.

Fact is there is no excuse with all the lead time Biden had, if IN FACT he was outraged by what DeJoy was doing and wanted to both reverse it and strengthen the USPS going forward that he could have picked staunch and obvious supportive USPS nominees to appoint.

Instead he picks two people with a history of being more like Manchin on the topic and who will tend to support Dejoy or not making big changes and more maintaining the status quo, which just means 'hold the line until the GOP gets power back and finishes the job'.

I have forever said, the Dem's really have zero desire to undue or push back the new lines to the right the GOP push thru when they have power. The Dems cry 'shame' and say 'now vote for us so we can fix it' but then tend to do nothing when in power other than holding the current line.

You are the first Dem apologist trying to throw shade their way suggesting it is no big deal either way, when the Dem party was raging against DeJoy and what he was doing when they saw campaign value in it.

Again, I am no Democrat apologist and have never expressed anything like that on this forum, you're once again pulling that out of your ass.

And of course I would not say anything like that afterwards, as I didn't say it's "no big deal either way". I said the previous USPS is terrible and needs change.

That's at least 3 misrepresentations in one post. It's almost as if you can't read. You're either stupid or a flat-out liar.

Is it possible to get someone removed from a thread they started?

and yet you are already making excuses that whatever changes are ok with you, including letting DeJoy do his work.

I'm not making any "excuses" for anyone. I think the USPS is terrible, and has been for my entire adult life. I don't know what Dejoy or anyone else is trying to do to the USPS, but I fully support any changes in it. I don't see this as supporting any person or political party. Again, you are trying to fit anything anyone else says into your pet theory, which everyone else on this forum seems to believe is wrong. I am not even a Democratic party supporter or voter, I just know generally how the US system of government works, and I know the USPS clearly does not work. As someone not raised in this political system, and not having much experience with the USPS, you know neither of these things even a tiny fraction as well as you think you do.

i want to protect the USPS.. it's a necessary service. a civilized country should provide available mail service for all its people. society benefits from this. we shouldn't be concerned if it's revenue neutral let alone profitable.

the only "change" the usps needs is for republicans to stop ****ing with it actively attempting to make it fail so they can enrich themselves with private dollars.

Eating food is also necessary. Do you think the federal government should take over all farms and grocery stores?

Healthcare is also necessary? Do you think the government should take over all hospitals, doctors offices and medical research?

You do realize if the USPS sold off all of its assets the businesses that buy those assets aren’t just going to abandon them, right?

the postal service is the least you should worry about. Mickey is right. as a civilized country you should place priorities on food, medicare, and shelter first.

Germany made all state postal service private a few years ago, and you know what happened? nothing. Postal service only got better, since now you have competition it improved service.

"For Deutsche Post, privatizing was a smart move"
https://www.marketplace.org/2011/11/...mart-move/amp/

"Even back in its bureaucratic days, the German post office had a reputation for speedy delivery, and the private company has further improved on it: 95% of letters are delivered within one day, and 99% within two days.
https://www.howtogermany.com › p...

and by the way who the f uses usps?

don't they have a bad reputation?
no wonder they want to take it private.

it's a run down company. ive never used it or maybe once or twice. I use UPS and fed ex, as they have a better reputation and always work flawless.

DHL, I forgot, do you know what that is?

its germanys former state postal service ,which is now a private company with much improved service.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Post

usps had a monopoly in mail letters.

but since nobody sends letters anymore.....

'Why America’s post office should be privatised
Europe is far ahead when it comes to liberalising postal markets'


https://www.economist.com/leaders/20...-be-privatised

I don't have strong views about the USPS, but if you have never lived in he United States, and you do have strong views about the USPS, that is very revealing.

I do regularly. And I live in the US, so I certainly expect to use it more than you.

I used USPS once or twice within 5 years of living in the US. UPS and Fedex were close to me, so I used that for shippings and the USPS office was pretty far away. Once I got there it was charming and I liked it, but it seemed very out of fashion. They are living of stamp sales now I think, and servicing the older generation which is probably not profitable anymore. And are competing with UPS etc for packages shipments were they get outperformed. Once in a while I get a very slow package sent through usps and wonder why it is taking so long. They are shipping by boat international imo which can take forever. OF course they als have expetited, but my goto companies are as told. So no not sad to see them go. It might be bad for some people tp get accustomed to it I admit, but I think they will upgrade the service once its privatized. Thats what happened in Europe with the postal service. Once it was state it sucked, now they are very reliable and everything is tracked.

Even if I lived there again I wouldnt know what I would use it for.

I dont trust them, and I think I was told that from the locals. That if you want a really reliable service you use UPS, FedEx, or DHL.

For what do you need it?

Lol all those services are interchangeable. If you order stuff sometimes it will come USPS, sometimes FedEx etc. there is basically no difference for most people and the fact get you’ve formed such a strong opinion about one of them just shows how susceptible to propaganda you are.

Scratch that, I know why you need it sorry. You send letters. I can tell you that nothing changed here, once they changed, it will still be Usps imo just with better service.

They use E bikes for delivering mail here now, do you have that?

I dont think they would have that if they were still a state company.

Im not talking about ordering stuff, Im talking about sending a package or envelope from A to B.


And maybe it is, maybe it is not. But when I send with UPS I know it is there the next day, internationally, same with FedEx. They just have and outstanding service.

Compare the websites of UPS and USPS and try to track something or see if you like the whole interface.

I remember even that website experience used to be terrible a few years ago.


Too much derail.


But yeah I have to agree with mickey that the postal service doesnt look like a priority now.

Reality is we could do with delivered mail once a week. I am sure the parcel division may be the biggest part now.

It is ultimately predictable what the GOP would do with USPS.

Certain routes (city routes) are enormously profitable, and the current structure is to use part of those profitable routes to subsidize the money losing ones in rural areas where such service can be considered an essential service.

Private Companies would love to push the USPS out of those profitable routes and take them over, and in a sale of USPS, companies, including DeJoys would bid and grab up USPS and then simply discontinue service to all the rural areas. They would keep all the profitable going and claim that is just good business sense.

The gov't would then be forced to look at creating some type of 'essential service' delivery for those rural areas that ONLY lost money. It would have no offset from the profitable areas which were all stripped.

The GOP would laud the Private Companies as exemplars of well run companies and cite the profits as proof of USPS prior failings while they would point at the new delivery entity as yet again another example of why gov't should not be in the delivery business. They would leave that new entity alone though as long as it was a money sink, but should those rural routes turn a profit then they would repeat the same process of calling for its sale, while then stripping out the profit centres.

Right. You have no idea but have formed a strong opinion anyway.

They would abandon all the non profitable routes though. You realize that right? That is Business 101. If 70% of your routes make big profits and 30% are cash sinks, just cut the 30%.

And if gov't considers those route Essential Service, then why not use the profitable routes to pay for the not profitable ones? Why let the private industry take all the profit and then have te govt still have to find a way to deliver to the non profitable ones?

Let them go private and if it goes anything like here in europe it will be a better experience.

Or let them be state and only do the mail.

Right now they get terribly outperformed imo by private companies, namely UPS, FEDEx and DHL.